Why does Firefox 3.06 keep crashing on Puppy Linux 4.1?

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drummachine
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#21 Post by drummachine »

No, it won't crash. I have an old P III Notebook with a full install of puppy 4.12 running. I copied the complete content of this tgz to /

Maybe the problems with Firefox 3 and Flash 10 are because of missing libgio in Puppy - I don't know - I'm not a great linux expert.
The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.
Meanwhile I updated the symlinks as well and my system runs fine.

computerophil
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#22 Post by computerophil »

I had the crashing problem with seamonkey but I changed to Firefox 2.0.0.20 and since I don't have this problem any more.
Last edited by computerophil on Tue 19 May 2009, 21:56, edited 1 time in total.
[img]http://forum.ubuntu-it.org/avt/avatar_66267.gif[/img] [url=http://computerophil.at/PUPPYdetail.html]computerophil.at[/url]
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mikeb
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#23 Post by mikeb »

The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.
now that's a curiosity...some lib of firefox compiled to use the later version perhaps...would get upset if not there.

I will have a play with this.

Where did you get them from (the libs)?

regards

mike

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ttuuxxx
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#24 Post by ttuuxxx »

mikeb wrote:
The fact is, that my firefox crashings stopped after I copied these libs and BEFORE I updated the symlinks to the new 18.4 libs.
now that's a curiosity...some lib of firefox compiled to use the later version perhaps...would get upset if not there.

I will have a play with this.

Where did you get them from (the libs)?

regards

mike
When i compiled firefox 304 and 307, which is made to use the default libs in puppy, it runs ok, other than at some sites like mozilla themes, it runs versy slow and the scrolbars run gittery, it also needed the apng, I had to lower the specs on cairo to use it. but to compile Seamonkey you need to apply a gtk patch, if not it runs a lot like firefox 3.0, The patch allows you to compile Seamonkey as GTK2, but if you compile firefox, it only compiles as Gtk2+Cairo which is too old for FF3. Really I think we need a new puppy base, the compiler is getting old, the glib is outdated, the Cairo/pango is outdated, the Gtk2 has documented issues. The Qt is outdated, a lot of the times I'm forced to lower the specs on QT. The newer version I compiled is still ok.
ttuuxxx
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mikeb
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#25 Post by mikeb »

When i compiled firefox 304 and 307, which is made to use the default libs in puppy, it runs ok, other than at some sites like mozilla themes, it runs versy slow and the scrolbars run gittery, it also needed the apng, I had to lower the specs on cairo to use it. but to compile Seamonkey you need to apply a gtk patch, if not it runs a lot like firefox 3.0, The patch allows you to compile Seamonkey as GTK2, but if you compile firefox, it only compiles as Gtk2+Cairo which is too old for FF3. Really I think we need a new puppy base, the compiler is getting old, the glib is outdated, the Cairo/pango is outdated, the Gtk2 has documented issues. The Qt is outdated, a lot of the times I'm forced to lower the specs on QT. The newer version I compiled is still ok.
ttuuxxx
Not to mention throwing in a version hot from mozilla into that cocktail is not going to be happy either.
Gets a bit crazy as one of the changes behing puppy 4.xx was to update everything needed to bring it in line with latest software and hardware and now it seems that has to happen again less than a year later. I used to wonder why dsl were using a version of firefox 1.0 on gtk1 but apart from size it was probably 'cause it worked.
Is this a case of operating systems being dictated to by the software rather than the other way around?
Another thing I noticed with firefox is that there is a new version about every week ...seems like things are being rushed for some reason.And why do these new releases generally suddenly need a much larger list of dependancies to achieve the same thing? I'm not a luddite but change for changes sake makes me come out in a rash.

Of course the other problem(?) with puppy is that it does not have a magic button to update everything in sight to keep up with these weekly changes like the larger distros so perhaps this is why we are suffering more than others....but then we don't fill up the forum with mysterious brakages after doing so either :) .

Another sad point is that I can run firefox 3 with flash 10 on my crusty old copy of windows 2000 with no service packs...trying to explain that to potential converts is tricky....'Hey this linux is better it just won't run programs thats all' sounds a bit lame.

This is of course a general rant but a solution is needed which is better than simply stumbling upon temporary fixes...new thread needed...'Linux...what now' or something.

off back up my tree

mike

DMcCunney
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#26 Post by DMcCunney »

mikeb wrote:Not to mention throwing in a version hot from mozilla into that cocktail is not going to be happy either.
Gets a bit crazy as one of the changes behing puppy 4.xx was to update everything needed to bring it in line with latest software and hardware and now it seems that has to happen again less than a year later. I used to wonder why dsl were using a version of firefox 1.0 on gtk1 but apart from size it was probably 'cause it worked.
For suitable values of "work". The underlying Gecko rendering engine has had a large number of updates for security, standards compliance, performance, and functionality since then. I'd use Firefox 2 in a pinch. I wouldn't use Firefox 1.
Is this a case of operating systems being dictated to by the software rather than the other way around?
If you think about it, that is he case, and not just for Puppy.

People don't get operating systems, they get applications to do work they want to do. The applications needed dictate the OS and OS version used. And applications drive hardware development and therefore drivers. Look at gaming: high end video card development is driven by 3D games, with the challenge of doing extremely complex rendering very quickly, and drivers that can talk to those cards and provide the desired performance are a major source of frustration.
Another thing I noticed with firefox is that there is a new version about every week ...seems like things are being rushed for some reason.
It's because Firefox has a focus on security. Unlike IE, where security holes can be reported and go unpatched for months, verified security holes in Firefox usually have a patch out very quickly, like in 48 hours. Firefox can check for updates and download and install them for you. I have that turned on by choice. You can always disable check for updates if you don't mind a security risk. (And the risk is probably fairly low, so it's not automatically a bad idea.) "Point" releases like FF 3.07 can be handled within FF. Actual new versions, like FF 3.1, happen far less frequently.
And why do these new releases generally suddenly need a much larger list of dependencies to achieve the same thing? I'm not a luddite but change for changes sake makes me come out in a rash.
It's not change for the sake of change. They happen because people think the changes fix bugs, help stability/security, and add desirable new capabilities. The Mozilla roadmap is pretty clear about where they are going and why, and what the estimated time frame is for things to land. I'm generally pleased with what the Mozilla devs are doing, and agree with the directions they are going.

Not having an official Puppy PET of a new version isn't a killer, since I can usually download, extract, and run the programs provided in the generic Mozilla Linux distribution.
Of course the other problem(?) with puppy is that it does not have a magic button to update everything in sight to keep up with these weekly changes like the larger distros so perhaps this is why we are suffering more than others....but then we don't fill up the forum with mysterious brakages after doing so either :) .
It would be really nice if Puppy had a package manager that could detect dependencies and make sure all required components were downloaded if not present. Things like yum in the Red Hat world and apt-get in Debian do a good job of that, all told.

It's not too bad if you find out about stuff built for Puppy that you want to install here, because the announcements normally do a good job of listing dependencies. If you install from a repository, it's quite another matter, and you spend time trying to figure out why something doesn't work.
Another sad point is that I can run firefox 3 with flash 10 on my crusty old copy of windows 2000 with no service packs...trying to explain that to potential converts is tricky....'Hey this linux is better it just won't run programs thats all' sounds a bit lame.
I can run Firefox 3 with Flash 10 on Puppy 4.12. For that matter, Firefox 3.1 Beta3 installed from the generic Mozilla Linux bz2 file runs fine.
This is of course a general rant but a solution is needed which is better than simply stumbling upon temporary fixes...new thread needed...'Linux...what now' or something.
I'd start with standards on installations, so you wouldn't have things like a Puppy user creating a PET for a new version of an application, but guess what - the existing version installed into /usr/bin, and the menu entries all point there. The new version installs into /usr/local/bin. So the user installs the new version from the PET and doesn't understand why they still see the old one in Puppy...
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mikeb
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#27 Post by mikeb »

Why does Firefox 3.06 keep crashing on Puppy Linux 4.1?
well just like the topic title I had exactly the same experience using the official mozilla download on puppy 4.1.2. Firefox 2 behaved. I use 1.5 all the time and have done since it came out... (mozilla security is just inherently streets ahead of the 'wide open windows mixed up with the shell' scenario )
for me 'frequent crashing' = 'not working'
Firefox was a program I chose originally because it didn't crash or seize up .

The basic problem in hand is that I read posts like this all the time and a solution is needed as it IS embarrasing trying to explain why the same progam running on XP is stable...cos crashing is associated with windows 98 ... domestic use of nt has changed user's perspectives somewhat.

Actually try using firefox 3 on slitaz for example...not a hiccup...so I do feel this is a puppy problem and since a browser is for most users of a computer the main interest it's vital to demonstrate good solid stability.

Any input on this subject is welcome by all...I'm generally limited to testing and observation

regards

mike

drummachine
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#28 Post by drummachine »

@ mike

have you tried the tgz-package from my above post?
I now see why it worked before I updated the symlinks: the make install process gave me also 1400.2 libs which seems to be the same as the 1800.4 libs (same size).

I took the source package of this glib from ftp.gnome.org and compiled
under a clean puppy 4.12 with devx package.

I haven't tried to compile Firefox 3 because of the other outdated libs ttuuxxx mentioned.
I use a german binary package from the mozilla site.
Last edited by drummachine on Tue 17 Mar 2009, 09:01, edited 1 time in total.

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#29 Post by drummachine »

-

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mikeb
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#30 Post by mikeb »

have you tried the tgz-package from my above post?
I now see why it worked before I updated the symlinks: the make install process gave me also 1400.2 libs which seems to be the same as the 1800.4 libs (same size).
Not yet ... will be trying with ram only setup as soon as can sneak the opportunity and I did wonder about the libs. I have manage to archive and do the same thing...ie files instead of symlinks...not sure how but makes yer look twice. Think I mentioned earlier that the crashing in this case was not directly flash related as seamonkey and firefox 2 behaved with the same setup

regards

mike

libgio...probably not needed so will try without
did you notice a pattern to crashing....particular site/content?

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#31 Post by mikeb »

Ok feedback time after my usual unscientific testing.

Found a repeatable crash on firefox 3.0.7 from mozilla...flash 10.0.15...puppy 4.12
Basically involved browsing back between videos on you tube....kill and restart same session gave the same freeze.

Dropped in your glib 1.800 libs (no libgio) , restarted firefox...no freeze...continued to abuse it on you tube with no hiccups.
In fact the whole performance was much snappier on my 700mhz machine...with the old glibc was like wading through custard.
Definatly seems like a good fix for now...I will install this setup for the family to test out

mike

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tazoc
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Firefox 3.07 crashes on my.yahoo.com

#32 Post by tazoc »

Techtype found this one: Open http://my.yahoo.com and move your pointer to a news link, hold to activate the javascript, then up and down a few more links and then away. Crashes every time for me. I'm using Lighthouse 4.1.2-b5.

I tried the glib-2.18.4-i486 unzipping into / the tar.gz posted earlier. Still crashing but not sure if I did it correctly. Firefox 3.0.7 and 3.1beta3 also crash. I understand FF 2.x does not exhibit this behavior but I prefer the latest versions.

I haven't tried it in Puppy 4.1.2 yet, but I did try a clean install of Firefox 3 in Newyearspup 02. It does not crash--rock solid.
-TazOC
[url=http://www.lhpup.org/][b][size=100]lhpup.org[/size][/b] [img]http://www.lhpup.org/gallery/images/favicon.png[/img][/url] [url=http://www.lhpup.org/release-lhp.htm#602]Lighthouse 64 6.02[/url]

drummachine
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#33 Post by drummachine »

@tazoc

try the first pet.

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mikeb
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#34 Post by mikeb »

I tried the glib-2.18.4-i486 unzipping into / the tar.gz posted earlier. Still crashing but not sure if I did it correctly.
Well the theory that is forming is that a joyous combination of ff / gtk / glib / flash brings forth stability so using glib 1.800 on 4.12 helps in that case only so your test seems to support that. I suspect good ol seamonkey fares better as version matching/compilation (in puppy ) is better .

So perhaps when offering say a firefox(or seamonkey) pet it should be a full , stable combination for particular puppy version(s)...packages are usually a case of app plus needed dependancies which in this case does not guarantee stability in itself

I noticed opera has been supplied as an all in one compilation with built in qt which may contribute quite heavily for its reputation for stability.

mike

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tazoc
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#35 Post by tazoc »

@drummachine,
Thank you for the pet. I tried the first one, installed fine, but FF still crashes on my.yahoo.com. Thought maybe it was because of LighthousePup, so I switched to a clean frugal install of Puppy 4.1.2 and FF 3.0.7, with no SFS files. Installed your first pet and rebooted. FF still crashes. The only thing that prevents the crashing is to disable Javascript in FF Preferences | Content.

In a terminal:

Code: Select all

# cd /usr/lib/firefox
# ./firefox
/usr/lib/firefox/crashreporter: error while loading shared libraries: libgconf-2.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Should I try installing gtk+-2.12.1 with PetGet?

@mikeb,
Yes SeaMonkey and Opera are stable for me. I may try the SeaMonkey 2 Alpha 3 to see if the addons I use with FF will work.
-TazOC
[url=http://www.lhpup.org/][b][size=100]lhpup.org[/size][/b] [img]http://www.lhpup.org/gallery/images/favicon.png[/img][/url] [url=http://www.lhpup.org/release-lhp.htm#602]Lighthouse 64 6.02[/url]

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#36 Post by mikeb »

error while loading shared libraries: libgconf-2.so.4
now there's a novelty. I wonder what's calling that...I assume the console output is from the javascript crash rather than initial launch.

ff 3.07...from mozilla tar.bz2?

I tested without including libgio....and full install, though aufs usually behaves better than union in that respect.....just trying to find differences

mike

drummachine
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#37 Post by drummachine »

@ tazoc

tried my.yahoo.com and had also crashes.
Had to update complete gtk-core to stop it crashing.
You can try this:

For Puppy 4.1x:
gtk-core-update

For Puppy 4.2 (without libjasper dependency):
gtk-core-update-p42

ONLY FOR TESTING PURPOSES!!

(contains glib-2.18.4, pango-1.22.4, pixman-0.14.0, cairo-1.8.6, gtk+-2.14.7)

UPDATE 26. March 2009: smaller pet (dropped the large unnecessary locales folder)

UPDATE 02. April 2009: updated libpangocairo was missing

And the development part (for the sake of completeness):
gtk-core-update-dev

I use this update on a full install since 2 weeks without any problems!!!!
Last edited by drummachine on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 13:36, edited 11 times in total.

HyerMan
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#38 Post by HyerMan »

I never thought this thread would grow like this. I would contribute more if I was experienced with compiling things on Linux (I guess I'll have to learn).

One thing that almost always causes a crash on FF (and on Bon Echo) is when there is video or something that will cause gxine 0.5.9 to launch. My daughter on facebook will actually get puppy to crash that way.

In reading through this thread it has become clear to me that THE key app for puppy to have work great is Firefox. The number one thing that people do with a computer is surf the web. The browsers are continuing to compete and improve. Sites are taking advantage of the latest scripting and media features. FF is really the standard bearer. Notice how IE8 is going to match the standard. I think there is value in supporting the latest web browser features even if it impacts the size of puppy. At least have a fatpuppy version that has a rock solid browsing experience.

Just my 2 cents. I guess I need to learn how to compile FF in order to contribute more.

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#39 Post by tazoc »

@drummachine,
Yes, gtk-core-update.pet works! Amazing! :D It works in LighthousePup as well as Puppy 4.1.2. If this proves stable I think many FF users will appreciate it.

I extracted the pet after testing it and I'm wondering if removing the gtk.desktop and the big locale folder (inside the pet, not Puppy) would be a problem. Can't resist trying to prune it for Lighthouse...

Well done!
-TazOC
[url=http://www.lhpup.org/][b][size=100]lhpup.org[/size][/b] [img]http://www.lhpup.org/gallery/images/favicon.png[/img][/url] [url=http://www.lhpup.org/release-lhp.htm#602]Lighthouse 64 6.02[/url]

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mikeb
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#40 Post by mikeb »

One thing that almost always causes a crash on FF (and on Bon Echo) is when there is video or something that will cause gxine 0.5.9 to launch.
Yep I wold confirm that gxine plugin and firefox don't love each other...I simply removed it. I wonder if the gtk/glib update would help with that. Otherwise the mediaplayer connectivity extension does basically the same function.

mike

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