Who's in charge?

Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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Nathan F
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Who's in charge?

#1 Post by Nathan F »

Well I've been out of the loop for a long time now and truth be told I haven't even ran any recent Puppy releases since about just before Puppy 4? Anyway, I've been looking around on the forum today and saw a lot of s*&%, but I can't seem to figure out from what I've read what exactly is going on with Puppy lately.

So, my questions are as follows (in order of importance to me) -

1) Is Warren still coordinating, or is his retirement official?

2) What should I download if I want to try the latest and greatest?

3) What direction is development heading, do we still have a distro that "just works" or not, and if not then what is the release schedule (if any) and goals for the next release, one after that, etc. Feel free to point me to where it may already be written down, just so long as I'm not forced to read through 25 pages of extraneous bull$^&t before I can make any sense of it.

4) Now, in case anyone hasn't picked up on it yet, I'm a bit pissed about some of what I already read this morning. There are a number of people acting like babies here IMO and I see a lot of caustic, personally demeaning comments that I don't see any reason for. The question is, how long has this sort of thing been going on and is there any reason to believe it might end at some point?

I applaud Pizzasgood for locking one extremely nasty and non-productive thread. I also applaud his decision not to delete it. I sincerely hope that he doesn't have to repeat that action, but I've seen more of the same in several other threads so I imagine he will.

Cheers people,
Nathan
Bring on the locusts ...

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#2 Post by raffy »

Great to see you again, Nathan.

You can see development better via Barry's blog at puppylinux.com/blog
He is doing a woofathon with Ubuntupup (upup).

At the moment Warren is finishing with 4.2:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41415&start=60

Elsewhere, people are experimenting with new-kernel builds: wow with ultrapup (unnamed puplet), kirk with fatdog, Mark with newyearspup.

Maybe Woof (new way of building Puppy) will also lead to this new-kernel way of building the Puppy. IMHO, it is a way of coping with new hardware without bothering much with many additional driver modules.

Right now am typing this in the eee using kernel 2.6.29 posted by Mark.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41654

Hmm, so the banter has been noticeable? You've come back at the right time!
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Nathan F
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#3 Post by Nathan F »

Well don't count on me being back actually. I'm just a user these days, albeit one who cares and knows a bit. But I have way too many challenges right now to contribute in any meaningful way.

Thanks for the replies. Thanks to Mark, too, not sure where his reply went though. I may try the release Warren puts out then. I've been updating my own system by compiling source packages for a long time now, but it's about time to replace the core. My glibc and such are a couple years old now. I just want to do a HD install with something current but small (Puppy always fit the bill nicely) so I can start over without starting from scratch. :lol:

Nathan
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#4 Post by 01micko »

Hello

4.21 is due out soon 8) .

Some fun thoughts being thrashed about here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 299153#top

Woof is fun too, if you have the time.... it takes about 4 or 5 hours to build, or you can get BK's latest "upup", based on Jaunty.

Cheers

Mick
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#5 Post by Pizzasgood »

You didn't see MU's reply this time because you double-posted this thread and he posted in the other one.

Normally when I catch a duplicate before it's had replies I can just remove one. This time I'll have to leave the other one, but to avoid confusion I'll lock it and add a link in each thread to the other.

Discussion will continue here.


The duplicate is over here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=41669
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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#6 Post by Pizzasgood »

4) Now, in case anyone hasn't picked up on it yet, I'm a bit pissed about some of what I already read this morning. There are a number of people acting like babies here IMO and I see a lot of caustic, personally demeaning comments that I don't see any reason for. The question is, how long has this sort of thing been going on and is there any reason to believe it might end at some point?
On and off all Spring seems like. I'm getting quite fed up. I do believe that the worst is over and it's on it's way out though.

I'd better be right. (Hint hint)

do we still have a distro that "just works" or not
In my experience 4.2 does mostly just work. There are apparently issues with some Windows document formats and maybe Cups. I've been too swamped with school to keep up with the bug reports.

This is the first Puppy to ever configure the xorg.conf file correctly-enough for X to start on my dual-screen setup. It doesn't actually set up both screens or anything, it just gets the primary up and running. All other Puppies require me to manually correct the xorg.conf before X will run at all. Actually, the fact that I have two screens is irrelevant. It's the two graphics cards that were the problem. This situation also arises on a computer with both onboard graphics and a graphics card. I imagine a lot of people who had issues getting Xorg to work will now find it does.

So in that area at least, this version of Puppy just works better than the old ones.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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#7 Post by Nathan F »

In my experience 4.2 does mostly just work. There are apparently issues with some Windows document formats and maybe Cups.
I did read a bit about that and it sounds like the problem lay with some undocumented changes made to Abiword (in the case of Word docs). Hardly a case of someone here screwing up.

As for Cups, well I'm not even used to having it available in Puppy yet...yeah I'm turning into a crochety old fart. Back in my day...

Sorry for the double post. My net connection must have dropped partway through, as it's wont to do.
Woof is fun too, if you have the time.... it takes about 4 or 5 hours to build, or you can get BK's latest "upup", based on Jaunty.
I will probably try Upup too. As for Woof, as much as I'm interested I'm not sure I'll really ever be able to find the time to try the build scripts out. But it does make me wonder about some things, like the possibility of a Fedora based build or even *BSD, assuming someone put in the time to develop workarounds for the lack of squashfs and such. Ah well, as I said I have not the time myself.

Nathan
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#8 Post by ttuuxxx »

Nathan F wrote:My glibc and such are a couple years old now. I just want to do a HD install with something current but small (Puppy always fit the bill nicely) so I can start over without starting from scratch. :lol:

Nathan
The Glibc is puppy 4.2 is around 1+ years old now, Dpup by results is the fastest release, from what I've been reading, I've been using Dpup for weeks now and switch back to 4.2 to help out and then revert back to Dpup, Dpup does do circles around 4.2 and Firefox 3 works perfect on it. Barry is still in charge, but not really involved with day to day operations of the main release, WhoDo is still topdog for 4.2. But he wants to step down or has stepped down, it changes somewhat, we will soon not have a leader, unless WhoDo has break and comes back refreshed :)
ttuuxxx

Ps I edited 4.2 and removed pwidgets and icewm, then added most of the current fixes to this http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40852
You could try that version, It also has xfburn and a few newer icons.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
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#9 Post by ecomoney »

Yes, undocumented and UNTESTED changes in Abiword. Its been up for a month and hasnt been fixed yet. Puppy is a top ten distro now (it was about 20th when you left?), and there is a lot of people coming over from XP now support for it has dropped...hence me making a big deal of it (I did the work in the £30 cybercafe so I see the effects IRL). Still, Im sorry I came across how I did, however provoked...but Im not sorry for speaking up about it.....Ive seen a bit of the world too.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40845

Weve done a bit of thinking as to how it can be avoided in future...PG has already done some of the forum groundwork for this (the "bugs" section in "current puppy development") etc. Hopefully everyone is a little bit wiser I know I am. Happily, myself and Ttuxxx have had a more productive working relationship of late.

Weve also figured out that Puppy is green.
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#10 Post by ttuuxxx »

ecomoney wrote:myself and Ttuxxx have had a more productive working relationship of late.
[/url].
What about you and WhoDo, hows that relationship flourishing? lol
ttuuxxx
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#11 Post by Lobster »

Fedora based build or even *BSD
Hello again Nathan :)
Still driving trucks? How is the photography?
Still following 'The Carpenter'? 8)

I feel RPM compatibility and Fedora friskiness could well be a woofable future build. Puppy can wear a red hat . . .

BSD I had never thought of . . . 8)
BSD seem to have a better file system than the often messy penguin.
Is there an Open Darwin (BSD used by Mac)?

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#12 Post by trio »

if we go back to "who will be in charge" ..then..should there be a thread about it? or already? where?

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#13 Post by ttuuxxx »

trio wrote:if we go back to "who will be in charge" ..then..should there be a thread about it? or already? where?
WhoDo's not dead in the water yet, Lets not start fighting over his crown just yet. Like he said, he might just need to recoup, have a break and come back refreshed.
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#14 Post by trio »

ttuuxxx wrote:
trio wrote:if we go back to "who will be in charge" ..then..should there be a thread about it? or already? where?
WhoDo's not dead in the water yet, Lets not start fighting over his crown just yet. Like he said, he might just need to recoup, have a break and come back refreshed.
ttuuxxx
Well for one, I will not want to be elected as leader, I am not capable of it..

two, I still want Whodo as the leader but it's not important what I think as he made it clear that he resigned...pity but true..he knows I'm his no 1 supporter :lol:

three, I am thinking Lobster can be a "temporary" leader as he already leads threads about the Kennel...then soon after 4.2.1 is released...then a leader should be elected

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#15 Post by Billwho? »

@Trio
The only problem with electing our leader is that then we will get a politician, and they can't be trusted.
Linux = Learning through doing :shock: :? :D
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You just have to pass the occasional oncoming train to get there.

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#16 Post by ttuuxxx »

Well Barry is still head of state, so he hand picked the last one and if WhoDo doesn't get his steam back, then we'll just let Barry pick again, and live with it. :) i think thats the best way, and the next possibility is we have a forum poll. run for like 2 weeks.
ttuuxxx
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#17 Post by Pizzasgood »

A poll would need to be announced well ahead of time. Some users don't come to the forum very often, and could easily miss an important poll. It could be made a global announcement so that the thread link appears over the top of everything, everywhere in the forum.

Personally though, I don't think a forum poll would be a very good option. I'm more of a fan of choosing a group of people (verified by Barry) to form a council who would then govern Puppy. That council could then bring in new people by voting amongst themselves. They'd elect a coordinator from either outside or inside themselves, whatever they see fit. Choosing a specific person to be coordinator would eliminate the "cumbersome committee" problem for designing and building Puppy, while still keeping a higher power above the coordinator to handle things like choosing a new coordinator, maintaining overall control of Puppy and Puppy-related assetts (websites, repos, etc), and otherwise filling the gaps in situations where the coordinator is not applicable or available.

The problem is I don't know whether we have enough dedicated and knowledgeable people yet who'd be willing to take part. This is more of a long term sustainability thing than an implement tomorrow thing - can't rely on Barry to step in every time somebody retires.

But that's just my opinion.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
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#18 Post by Lobster »

Lobster can be a "temporary" leader
I could not lead a fish to water. Also I have acute megalomania . . .
Also too crazy.
Today Puppy. Tomorrow the whirled . . . . . . it has already started . . .

If Lobster becomes even temporary 'leader' - I am leaving! :shock:
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#19 Post by ecomoney »

The problem of having a committee would that it would become too developer-centric. Puppy needs to look after the needs of "linux newbs"...according to BarryK's original mission statement (check my sig).

That would put current windows users in charge :wink:

Someone with real world experience, *some* background in Windows, perhaps even a qualification or two, or similar project management experience. Ability to remain calm, accept criticism (and bugreports) as information, remain polite to others, and organise a team. . and some technical skill would also be needed.

Think of it as a Job Description

C.V.'s please
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#20 Post by ttuuxxx »

ecomoney wrote:The problem of having a committee would that it would become too developer-centric. Puppy needs to look after the needs of "linux newbs"...according to BarryK's original mission statement (check my sig).

That would put current windows users in charge :wink:

Someone with real world experience, *some* background in Windows, perhaps even a qualification or two, or similar project management experience. Ability to remain calm, accept criticism (and bugreports) as information, remain polite to others, and organise a team. . and some technical skill would also be needed.
-
Think of it as a Job Description

C.V.'s please
your so full of it :)
lets look at what you said and break it down, shall we?
Everyone has a background in windows here who would possibly do this.
All the people who followed 4.2 would know what project management is, especially how to improve on the tiny things that were over looked in 4.2.
Ability to remain calm and accept criticism? Against what,,, you? your the only pain in the butt in 4.2, If you would of known how to actually have some patience and how to properly address the people doing all the work, WhoDo would still be here.
"Some technical skill needed?" <--- you put that on the bottom of the list as a low priority ? Man a lot of technical skill is need and this should be on the top of the list, You couldn't do this on you best day. Its not like you add the packages and run a script, for one thing you need to know some server side terminal code to upload to ibiblio, because they don't use any ftp programs, just ssh. Next you need to know the ins&outs of a operating system so you don't mess things up, like replacing certain system backends will make everything shot. Its actaully a very complicated task, plus you should be able to compile, know the linux directory structure, able to strip files, and know which ones to strip, lol Being Linux savvy is the top of the list.
Worrying if the person gets angry at people like yourself is the bottom of list, if its even there at all,

Main goals to get the Job done!
- Know your Linux stuff,
- Take the time to organize, contemplate with others, get a feel for it and then do it,
- Try not to pissoff the other developers,team members along the way.
- Functionality, Simplicity, Stability, are the Main OS needs
- have testers test every function of each newly updated or introduced program, one at a time.
-make your own schedule of releases. This isn't a update, builds are tricky and complicated .
Even beta's are released on Distrowatch by some linux distro's, so why don't we release them in the forum officially? I wouldn't put a beta on Distrowatch.
Lockdown of new/updated software after beta2, then just bug hunting.
One month testing of the final RC, get as man bugs out as possible.
...........
...........
...................
........................
..................
very bottom of the list, "Worry about ecomoney" lol
And Never post your CV to ecomoney, he took no role or devoted any time in the build of 4.2, the most he did was complain, and some how he always thinks he's in charge, ecomoney most of been a lazy bully in school, lol :lol:
ttuuxxx
Last edited by ttuuxxx on Tue 28 Apr 2009, 07:33, edited 1 time in total.
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
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