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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Feedback & Bug-Fix Suggestions for Retro-Puppy 218 alpha
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun 2009, 22:50    Post subject:  

OlddogNewtricks wrote:
tempestuous wrote

what are your opinions about Puppy 2.12-2.16 vs Puppy218 vs ttuuxxx's 214X2?

I feel ttuuxxx's 214X2 is on a par with older pups, & feels perkier than 2.18, It still has features like the seperate ZDRV sfs file which can be dumped once you've set up for your machine & a remastering script that allows you to produce a new pup_xxx.sfs easily. (dougal's work here I believe). I've always frugall installed, so a simple remaster & replacement of the pup_xxx.sfs file is what I love about puppy. I' ve never used a pup save file so I can tinker away knowing a reboot (which literally takes seconds with puppy) brings everything back the way it was. A superb linux learning tool.
My old (3 years!) computer has a 2.5 ghz cpu & 256 ram which I could easily upgrade to 1-2 gb but why should I, that's the microsoft way.
Keep It Small & Simple

Well done Barry & everybody else involved in this tiny marvel.

phew!! thats my 10 pence worth.

218 can also be built with a separate zdrv. It's just a choice made in the Woof build script.

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BarryK
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Wed 17 Jun 2009, 22:52    Post subject:  

tempestuous wrote:
BarryK wrote:
That is deliberate, the 'init' script has changed the test so that the sfs file only gets copied to ram if it is over 256MB.
The reason was, on a system without swap partition/file, it wasn't really leaving enough space for apps to run.

OK, that's good to know.
I think it's worth throwing in some historical perspective:

I have been following Puppy's development since version 1.02 in 2005. Puppy's technical foundation of copying the compressed filesystem to RAM was unique amongst live CD distributions. DamnSmallLinux could be forced to load into RAM with the "toram" boot option, but this was uncompressed to RAM, not compressed to RAM.
It was clear that the Puppy approach achieved the successful use of the most powerful applications with the least amount of RAM ...
of course back in those days Puppy was 50MB, and 128MB RAM was (just) adequate.

I take the point that in Puppy's current form 256MB RAM is not quite sufficient to run Puppy completely in RAM, but in such cases we now have a significantly different situation where the compressed filesystem is stored on the hard drive or flash drive, not RAM.

To my mind this raises a big question:
In situations where the computer has 256MB RAM or less, does a frugal installation offer any advantage over a full installation? Because in both cases the files are being accessed from hard drive/flash drive, and it seems logical that files would be retrieved faster from an uncompressed filesystem rather than from a compressed filesystem.

Anyone care to comment?

Well, a frugal install allows easy install and uninstall of SFS files.

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ecomoney


Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 2183
Location: Lincolnshire, England

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun 2009, 07:40    Post subject:  

Easy SFS Install 0.1.1 by dejan555

The frugal install/compressed layered filesystem offers much flexibility/advantages, and deals with the lowest hardware spec very well. Computer RAM (and Disk) sizes have increased significantly faster than the size of Puppy over the last five years though.

Perhaps there is a case now, for higher end computers, to have the sfs files stored uncompressed to hard disk. This would give similar speed advantages to a FULL install, plus the convenience advantages of the frugal sfs model. This could be done at first puppy shutdown where the option of saving the .sfs to the hard disk is given when saving the pup_save.2fs.

At higher ram levels (512mb/1gb + which Ive found are not uncommon nowadays even for "recycled" kit), then the sfs could be loaded already uncompressed into RAM?

As puppy linux is designed to be "friendly for linux newbies", these decisions would also need to be automated, (checking available disk space/RAM first) so that the default values for optimum speed are discovered and already set in the rc.shutdown script, with the option to change them so advanced users could still "tweak".

This way, to my thinking, would still allow puppy to run as it has on older "hardware-challenged" p.c.'s while allowing it to take full advantage of the higher capacities of newer computers.

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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3365
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun 2009, 08:50    Post subject:  

I just thought I would try going the other way and try booting a frugal install on a Compaq Presario 3 gigs ram AMD Athalon X2 4800 dual core with Invidia GeForce 6150 SE Graphics.
I had to select Vesa for graphics and my sound card was not found.
But I could access the SATA hard drive as well as the PATA hard drive.
Also, Gxine was able to go straight to full screen with no problem just by pressing 'F'.
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nubc


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1046
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu 18 Jun 2009, 12:03    Post subject:  

Have to say ugh to the yellow and brown color scheme in pup2-2.18.1. So why does this pup2 use kernel 2.6.18.1 when Puppy 2.17.1 official uses 2.6.21.1? The version of GParted in pup2 is 0.3.3, with which I had a serious hdd detection problem on a common Dell laptop (Latitude CPx 650 mhz p3), suggesting a more recent version of GParted would be advisable. For FLV playback with gxine I had to run alsaconf to get sound. Suggestion: Put a Pfind shortcut on desktop. Usability insight: move the lock icon away from the upper right corner. If things freeze and user is trying to close windows, the last thing user needs is a residual click on lock.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7797
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun 2009, 23:57    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:

Tried a full install on the laptop
this failed at the Grub stage
Not sure if the HD is faulty (very likely)
or it did not like the XP filesystem/boot area

So maybe someone else will try an install . . .


Hi Lobster,

I did a full install successfully to my K6.

I did it like this.
    Booted pfix=ram, had an empty HDD, and used gparted to create a swap and a couple of ext2 partitions, but you could use ext3 if you want and as many or as few as 1partitions.

    Installed GRUB, obviously there was nothing to enter in the menu.lst and nothing for grub to find but it installs ok anyway.

    Ran universal installer and proceeded in the usual way, until you get to the grub stage where you choose add an entry. Finish the installer, open the menu.lst file and the NEWGRUB.TXT file in /tmp and copy the contents of NEWGRUB.TXT to your menu.lst in the appropriate place.


Works well. Wink

Cheers

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7797
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun 2009, 02:55    Post subject:  

OK, now posting from the 486, transplanted the HDD from said previous full install. It works. But not too fast Smile . It requires much patience (or a few beers) but nevertheless it works!

I downloaded Elinks because Seamonkey wouldn't have a hope on these specs, 50MHz cpu, 32MB ram, 130MB swap.

I would not recommend doing this. 216_fat_free-dillo from big_bass ran faster.

Cheers

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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun 2009, 09:07    Post subject:  

nubc wrote:
Have to say ugh to the yellow and brown color scheme in pup2-2.18.1. So why does this pup2 use kernel 2.6.18.1 when Puppy 2.17.1 official uses 2.6.21.1?

If I recall rightly, some people liked the older kernel more. Also that's what 214 uses I think.

But 218+ could be built with the 2.6.21.1 kernel if required.

I have made some relevant posts on my blog:

http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00818
http://puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=00819

Any 218+ is there for anyone interested. I have moved on, now working on continuation of the 4.x series.

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OlddogNewtricks

Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 124
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Tue 23 Jun 2009, 01:46    Post subject:  

BarryK wrote:


But 218+ could be built with the 2.6.21.1 kernel if required.



That would get my vote but others would say why not upgrade pup 3. Note, my 2.17 kernel shows 2.6.21.5

I hardly ever boot from a live cd thanks to frugal installing but tried 2.18 in a spare moment. It wouldn't let me unmount & eject the cd. I take it thats because I only have 256mb of ram.
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earlytv


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Racine WI USA

PostPosted: Sat 12 Sep 2009, 21:24    Post subject:  

Frugal install 2.18, 2.14R V11 on system also.
2.18 Seamonkey very unstable on my system?
www.ebay.com worst at causing seamonkey to quit?
Any solutions?

I use Road Runner for internet service.
RR tops out at 20meg bits per sec on speed tests.
Is fast speed the cause of seamonkey quit?

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Dewbie

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 1783

PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct 2012, 02:24    Post subject:  

Is this still available anywhere?
(preferably k2.6.18.1 version)
Links on page 1 are now dead.
Thanks.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5726
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct 2012, 02:44    Post subject:  

Dewbie wrote:
Is this still available anywhere?
(preferably k2.6.18.1 version)
Links on page 1 are now dead.
Thanks.


If no new links magically appear I happen to have both versions that I could upload.About 2 am now though so it'll be after I get some sleep..... Laughing
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Dewbie

Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 1783

PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct 2012, 02:53    Post subject:  

Thanks, James...no hurry. Smile
I only need its analog modem drivers (specifically Intel 536) for Classic Pup 2.14x.
Edit: Intel 536 driver is only available with k2.6.18.8 version.

Last edited by Dewbie on Thu 01 Nov 2012, 20:36; edited 1 time in total
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5726
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct 2012, 17:55    Post subject:  

Uploaded both versions.......

2.6.18.1 iso http://www.smokey01.com/JamesC/puppy%20218/puppy2-218-k-2.6.18.1.iso

md5 http://www.smokey01.com/JamesC/puppy%20218/puppy2-218-k-2.6.18.1

2.6.18.8 iso http://www.smokey01.com/JamesC/puppy%20218/puppy2-218-k-2.6.18.8.iso

md5 http://www.smokey01.com/JamesC/puppy%20218/puppy2-218-k-2.6.18.8

EDIT: Removed from server for space considerations.

Last edited by James C on Mon 20 May 2013, 07:47; edited 1 time in total
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 567
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Tue 23 Oct 2012, 06:31    Post subject:  

Thanks James C! This will be on my Christmas project list Smile
Of course - thanks very much too, to BK for revitalizing these earlier Puppy environments.
Puppy Redux?

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