TEENpup 2009 Legacy available for Download

Message

john biles · #41 Post by **john biles** » Wed 17 Jun 2009, 12:41

Hello richard.a,
Feedback on what Hardware TEENpup runs on would be good. As for the coughing, my wife and a few other people I know are suffering the same thing.

noprob · #42 Post by **noprob** » Wed 17 Jun 2009, 18:50

Thx. John for another wonderful distro/flavor of Puppy Linux to use on older computers.

richard.a · #43 Post by **richard.a** » Fri 19 Jun 2009, 09:29

john biles wrote:Hello richard.a,
Feedback on what Hardware TEENpup runs on would be good.

As promised, I have replaced the previous post with my evaluation of about half a dozen different desktop hardware items (mostly old) and two laptops, all old - in live mode. I've tried it so far on a bunch of them.

Evaluation:
Here are the results of my testing of TEENpup2009, in Live mode, on a bunch of boxes...
Throughout I used an H-P M900 19-inch precision monitor (2000 vintage) - previously used for AutoCAD - and scanner checks used a Canoscan USB N670U (Plustek) in all 3 scanner software applications provided on two or three of the computers only.

======================
Laptop 1 - Toshiba Satellite T1800 - Celeron 896 with 256 (max) SD RAM, Swap partition 933Mb
XP Home native. approx 7 or 8 years old at a guess.
video Trident video accel CyberBlade XP Ai1 v6.4020.22ICD onboard

TEENpup2009legacy Live pfix=RAM stalled probing Xorg and Xvesa
TEENpup2008 Live pfix=RAM stalled probing Xorg and Xvesa
IRQPOLL boot parameter tried also, no difference.
The earliest puppy I have ever got running on this laptop was ver4 - Macpup 4.11, and vanilla 4.12 installed along with LinuxMint Cassandra 3.x with kernel 2.6.20-15-generic
It has also run Sun JavaDesktopSystem v2 (based on SuSE 8.1) and PCLinuxOS2007.

======================
Laptop 2 - Toshiba Satellite T2140 K6-2 450 with 128 (max) EDO RAM, Swap partition 643Mb
win98 Home native originally, perhaps 10 to 12 years old,
system removed and larger HDD fitted.
not sure what audio onboard,
NIC in PCMCIA is bad news on many Linuxes.
S3 Virge VX video onboard 800x600 LCD,

TEENpup2009legacy Live pfix=RAM kernel panic could not complete loading huge .sfs existing, runs ReactOS (Alpha), Puppy 4.12, Vesta 3.01, have tried several others.
Desktop in Xorg at 640x480 only, and works in XVesa at 800x600 (and 1024x768 for external monitor support). IRQPOLL boot parameter needed.

======================
Laptop 3 - Twinhead pentium 250M MMX/64 (max RAM) EDO RAM
Desktop 800x600 and 1024x768 for external monitor
Not yet tried, suspect insufficient RAM. support.

======================
Desktop 1 - Compaq Presario 3200 slim desktop/minitower Celeron 700 MHz 256Mb SD Swap 1020Mb
video onboard audio onboard PCI NIC not known
Everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy

======================
Desktop 2 - Compaq Evo D51S slim desktop/minitower Celeron 2 GHz 760Mb DDR Swap 1020Mb
Intel video onboard SoundMAX audio onboard IntelPRO ethernet onboard
Everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy

======================
Desktop 3 - HP Pavilion 6617 compact minitower Celeron 566 MHz 256Mb SD Swap 1020Mb
intel video onboard intel audio onboard NIC PCI Realtek works on earlier pups
if another NIC works, then this would likely be a goer. Everything else seems to work.

======================
IBM Aptiva K6-2 380/196M SD 803Mb swap, BIOS date 1999
video ATI Mach64 with 8Mb of RAM onboard
audio onboard
Runs 2.14 with EZ-pup upgrade
Karamba desktop widgets slab crashes on launch.
Everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy apart from Karamba, may be fixable

======================
IBM Netvista (Aptiva mini-tower in black) Celeron 766/256M SD 803Mb swap, BIOS 1999
video SiS 630 Display onboard
Realtek RTL8139 NIC onboard
audio SiS 7018 (AC97) onboard (not in ALSA database) (No sound)
(412 config's Trident audio out of choice of 4)
Runs up to 2.11 without IRQPOLL, needs IRQPOLL for later.
Apart from sound, everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy

======================
Homebuilt MSI KM266 with Athlon 1100MHz and 2x 512Mb sticks of DDR RAM, swap
video S3 ProSavage onboard DDR
ethernet VIA Rhine onboard
audio Realtek onboard AC97/VIA
Everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy

======================
Homebuilt MSI 64-bit K8MM-V with Sempron 2600+ and 2x 512Mb sticks of DDR RAM, swap
video VIA S3G IniChrome Pro
ethernet VIA Rhine onboard
audio VIA onboard (AC97)
start-up music theme looped
apart from this, everything worked for TEENpup2009legacy

======================
Observations
A nice usable distribution. The points below are not so much criticisms but points that may need attention and polish

1. KSnapshot is nice to have, if you have used it before. Gnome afficionadoes probably wouldn't agree

2. I had personal difficulties with maximised application windows as installed - browser is one example.

3. Some people may prefer 24hour clock time, and a help file on editing ice-wm prefs menu might help there. Also with the location of the Karamba slab menu - how to reposition it, change to 24hr clock, etc. I'll work something up shortly for this thread.

4. There seems no automatic selection of Karamba themes vs desktop size. I found out the hard way there are 3 provided by manually editing the default 1024x768 version of the config file to suit 1280x1024 - after doing the editing, lol. Windows users would have difficulty.

5. How easy is it to enable the window outline being shown when dragging?

6. I find the default filemanager is not easy to use. Glad to see MUT is a choice, and it is not in ver 4.

7. Realplayer says it needs wget installed to complete setup. Using VLC instead works nicely for .ra and .rm files.

8. Pure-FTPd server does not set up correctly (nor on 4.1, and 2.14R1), whereas I never had problems with BetaFTP. This seems to be an application-related problem, not the OS-related.

9. And of course, large pup_214.sfs (600megs) slows live operation down considerably, before you have the pup_save and .sfs on the HDD.

10. I could not find a locale setting on the menu. And I can't check it in console because I don't know the command to run lol

11. Important to note, exclusive to puppy later than 2.11 there are missing NIC drivers, so this isn't a TEENpup problem. I use 3com PCI NICs almost exclusively where no onboard exists, as do many other people because of their being easily obtained and inexpensive. I tried a Realtek NIC with the same result. I don't have any others.

12. note to/from me: added VNC Server (.pet) to complete the job; Audacity is already there.

Summary
Altogether an excellent job, John.
Thank you so much for all your hard work; it's really good.

Also I put a post on the green tech girl's website at http://greentechgirl.com/e-waste/puppy- ... omment-353

Thank you, John

barney67 · #44 Post by **barney67** » Fri 19 Jun 2009, 21:28

hello ,

I'd really like to try TEENpup too , but the 1st boot halts part way.

i ve verified the md5sum and it's ok

but impossible for my pc to boot , dommage

amd sempron 2300+ , 1.58 GHz , 1 GB of ram

richard.a · #45 Post by **richard.a** » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 04:29

barney67 bonjour mon ami.

Can you give us any technical information about your computer. Maybe model number and maker of the "box", hein?

This may help us as we try to help.

Richard en Australie

puppyluvr · #46 Post by **puppyluvr** » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 06:27

Hello,
@Hey John,
Congrats on the reception Teenpup `09 is receiving!!!
#1 D/L on Softpedia!!!

Mic67 · #47 Post by **Mic67** » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 07:27

@Hey John,
Congrats on the reception Teenpup `09 is receiving!!!
#1 D/L on Softpedia!!!

-------------------

When you get to a certain age you find it important to let people know what you think!!

Good Job....much appreciated. Objective sufficently achieved.

Mic67

TheProphet · #48 Post by **TheProphet** » Sat 20 Jun 2009, 09:21

Cool.

I've already got TEENpup 2008 installed but have been using 2009 for the past few days. I especially was happy that my mostest favorite game of all time is installed by default, Minesweeper.

How do I install it as a "version upgrade" which I've not done on Puppy yet? Point me to the tutorial. (I know there is one)

This one is a contender that will blow Windoze' s--errr "Stuff" in the weeds.

I can see absolutely nothing the Win users usually complain about.

Molte Bravissimo.

And I take it that it won't install readily on SCSI...

john biles · #49 Post by **john biles** » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 06:16

Hello richard.a,
Thank you for all the testing you've done, it must have taken hours! It shows that TEENpup only suits a number of PC's and Laptops out there. I have a 2001 Compaq Presario 1200 with 800Mhz Pentium III and TEENpup works fine on that.
It saddens me to see all those Users who are having downloaded TEENpup and it doesn't work on their PC's. I know I'm not alone as some of the Big names in Linux haven't worked on my equipment either.

Hello TheProphet,
As TEENpup 2009 Legacy is still based on Puppy 2.14 like TEENpup 2008 was, it may be not upgradeable. you may have to save your important files on an external Hard drive or another partition and wipe 2008 and install 2009. If someone has a better trick for this please let us know.

richard.a · #50 Post by **richard.a** » Sun 21 Jun 2009, 10:07

Post reserved for comments.

What I'm doing is to attempt to install on another machine and then copy the files to the machine with SATA drives. Then provide the files as a web download.

Puppy will normally work this way - with copying between IDE drives because of the magnificently simple configuration procedure. I do it all the time.

I have also done it with ver 9.3 SuSE (with its YaST configurator) and Linspire 4.5, 5.0 and 5.1 extremely successfully, all because of user-friendly re-configuration, of which the Linspire one is the easiest. You merely pick a menu item in Grub

It works between IDE computers in both the pup_save and the install type 2 to partition modes.

It may take a couple of days. Keep you posted.

Richard

davesurrey · #51 Post by **davesurrey** » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 22:07

From an initial first view it seems that this is a very fine distro for which many thanks John.

However it's clear in this thread that a fair few are having problems installing it.

For the record I don't have any SATA HDDs nor DVD/CDs. But I have tried 5 times to do a frugal install to different partitions and have only had 2 successes.

I confirm that I haven't tried using a psubdir as I understand it doesn't work.

For the record I have had no trouble installing Puppy 214X (ttuuxxx's revised 214R) nor any other puppy on this PC.

I could only get it working if I used a partition without any other puppy and using the following grub stanza.

Code: Select all

title TeenPup 2.14 frugal on hdb5
    rootnoverify (hd1,4) 
    kernel (hd1,4)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hdb5 acpi=force 
    initrd (hd1,4)/initrd.gz

After each re-boot I get "Useful Tips" which I can disengage but also PDrive (Puppy Drive Manager) always comes up at the start. Is there a sway of stopping this. Personally I find it annoying.

Cheers
Dave

richard.a · #52 Post by **richard.a** » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 23:54

Dave, interesting post. And I guess the key is that "one size fits all" doesn't work with Puppy. Come to think of it, it doesn't work with other *nixes either.

davesurrey wrote:

Code: Select all

title TeenPup 2.14 frugal on hdb5
    rootnoverify (hd1,4) 
    kernel (hd1,4)/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEDIA=idehd PDEV1=hdb5 acpi=force 
    initrd (hd1,4)/initrd.gz

Interesting you put this line in... rootnoverify (hd1,4) - I've only ever seen that used in a Windows or a DOS environment.
Saying that, I believe that a frugal install has to be in a FAT partition, from memory. Perhaps that's why you have the line in there?

davesurrey wrote: After each re-boot I get "Useful Tips" which I can disengage but also PDrive (Puppy Drive Manager) always comes up at the start. Is there a sway of stopping this. Personally I find it annoying.
Cheers
Dave

In my exploration of Live running in those several boxes, I saw it happen, too, but not on every instance. I wish I'd made a note of it, now. Sorry.
When I can get back on to this I'll try several type 2 installs on those various boxes, but this will entail resizing partitions to allow that to happen. It all takes time, though.

Someone asked about dotpups and dotpets. I tried one of each, because based on 2.14 it should. And the two I tried (live) work well. Forget which they were. But it's probably quicker to try and report that it does work, than wait and see if someone picks the question up. Not being picky, because I've also asked. If you try it live in a pfix=ram environment, it doesn't matter if you break it

Richard

davesurrey · #53 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 00:36

Hello Richard,
Thanks for your post.

And I guess the key is that "one size fits all" doesn't work with Puppy. Come to think of it, it doesn't work with other *nixes either.

Yes, totally agree with you but Teenpup and also ttuuxxx's 214X have started my interest in the older puppies and both these seem so good that I really would like to understand them (including their limitations) so I can install over a range of PCs.

I believe that a frugal install has to be in a FAT partition

No, I understand that whereas a frugal install can be to a FAT partition it doesn't have to be and ext2 and ext3 are equally as good (some would say better.) I have plenty of examples working on my PC here.

Interesting you put this line in... rootnoverify (hd1,4)

Well it also works just using "root" in place of "rootnoverify" but I usually use the latter for all my frugal grub stanzas. And the 4-series manual uses rootnoverify for a frugal install (root for a full install.) Perhaps it's just my habit.

Good luck with your testing on all those older PCs.

Cheers
Dave

Artie · #54 Post by **Artie** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 07:33

I have been reading through this thread and I'm very impressed by the quality of the latest teenpup. Since I'm a distro junkie in my experience installing any distro is gambling and many of the big ones can't be installed or don't work properly on my machine.

I'm also very impressed with the testing richard.a has done and he has some very good points. I'm especially interested in 24hour clock and the locale setting. John, may I suggest that you start a new thread calling it "TEENpup 2009 Legacy FAQ" or something similar where you address some of these questions and provide suggestions for solving them? Keep up the good work!

Artie

john biles · #55 Post by **john biles** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 14:19

Hello davesurrey,
If open the hidden file .xinitrc in the root (home) folder and navigate to:

##v2.14 rarsa: update xdg menu for w.m. that do not allow includes...
#which ${CURRENTWM}_menu_refresh && ${CURRENTWM}_menu_refresh
#...no, now doing it differently, see /usr/sbin/fixmenus

wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav &
/usr/bin/karamba &
/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon &
/opt/kde/bin/ktip &
#kdialog --passivepopup "Applications like Vuse and Open Office may take up to a minute to start up on older Hardware, please be patient..." 5
#kdialog --passivepopup "Applications like ZynAddSubFX and TVtime may fail to START on Low RAM PC's..." 5
/usr/bin/amor &

#exec $CURRENTWM
#v2.11 GuestToo suggested this improvement...

and put a # in front of any of these lines you can turn off what you don't want.

wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav & = Sound at startup
/usr/bin/karamba & = Starts karamba side panel
/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon & = Starts pdrive's daemon
/opt/kde/bin/ktip & = Starts ktip TEENpup's tips
/usr/bin/amor & = Little cat at bottom of screen

so if wanted to turn off all of them it would look like this:

#wavplay /usr/share/audio/2barks.wav &
#/usr/bin/karamba &
#/usr/local/pdrive/pdrive_daemon &
#/opt/kde/bin/ktip &
#/usr/bin/amor &

I hope this helps

davesurrey · #56 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 17:57

Hello John,
Thank you for reply which was very helpful.

Unfortunately I can't put it into practise as I am struggling to get TeenPup to install on my test PC.

I have got it working before (and have ttuuxxx's 214x installed okay) but it seems 2 series based Puppys are a lot harder to get running than the 4 series I "grew up" on.

Not giving up as TeenPup really does look so good so reading through the forum for help.

Thanks again for the help.
Dave

#57 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 18:41

davesurrey wrote:Hello John,
Thank you for reply which was very helpful.

Unfortunately I can't put it into practise as I am struggling to get TeenPup to install on my test PC.

I have got it working before (and have ttuuxxx's 214x installed okay) but it seems 2 series based Puppys are a lot harder to get running than the 4 series I "grew up" on.

Not giving up as TeenPup really does look so good so reading through the forum for help.

Thanks again for the help.
Dave

Hi Dave did you try the 4 series grub pet package I put together on the 2.14.1X thread?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... h&id=19435
ttuuxxx

davesurrey · #58 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 19:02

ttuuxxx, Gosh you are here and there and everywhere.

Just finished a message to you on your 214X thread.

No, haven't used this yet. What does it do? I don't want to change my MBR and the existing grub I have been using for months and months seems perfectly fine and besides there are issues with Puppy's grub and inodes.

But if you can let me know what this does, what are the improvements/changes then I can judge what to do.

Reading the forum I am finding out that having two versions of 2-series save-files may cause problems. Investigating this now. Looking for a work around to keep 214X and teenpup files in sub folders, just like 4 series. Not going to give up. Must be mad!

Cheers
Dave

#59 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 19:17

davesurrey wrote:ttuuxxx, Gosh you are here and there and everywhere. Just finished a message to you on your 214X thread.

No, haven't used this yet. What does it do? I don't want to change my MBR and the existing grub I have been using for months and months seems perfectly fine and besides there are issues with Puppy's grub and inodes.

But if you can let me know what this does, what are the improvements/changes then I can judge what to do.

Reading the forum I am finding out that having two versions of 2-series save-files may cause problems. Investigating this now. Looking for a work around to keep 214X and teenpup files in sub folders, just like 4 series. Not going to give up. Must be mad!

Cheers
Dave

Well you said you were having install issues, so that pet is the updated installer/grub from 4 series, still in the testing phase for 2 series and probably better to use it on your test pc.
ttuuxxx

davesurrey · #60 Post by **davesurrey** » Tue 23 Jun 2009, 19:23

so that pet is the updated installer/grub

Just to be clear does that modify not just the grub-installer but the Puppy universal installer as well? If it does then I'll certainly give it a try. If not then I doubt it can help as I don't need to install grub at each puppy install to boot.
Dave

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TEENpup 2009 Legacy available for Download

TEENpup 2009

impossible to boot on my sempron pc