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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
smallest linux?
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rarsa


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 3053
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue 06 Dec 2005, 13:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
Gentoo seems like something I'd like to try. But not yet, not by far -- it sounds way too complex.

Actually with the kind of knowledge and background you've displayed in the forum, Gentoo wouldn't be difficult at all.

The documentation takes you step by step explaining what's going on. Actually you learn a lot, but as MU pointed out, you have to read a lot too. I understood a lot of Linux concepts by trying Gentoo. I would not use it as my primary system though, but I think that Its quite a fast way to understand the posibilities.
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2005, 18:18    Post subject: size budget?  

I was surprised to hear from Mark that PuppyBasic compressed takes up 2MB -- that is a significant fraction of 50MB total!

I don't question the decision to include it -- I am glad that it is there, and thankful for Mark's work to make it available.

But I would like to understand the overall "size budget" situation with Puppy. Is there somewhere that summarizes a breakdown of that 50MB -- which applications/functions are taking how much of it?
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2005, 19:02    Post subject:  

well, look at a program.

For example

int main(argc, argv){
(C-language)

will be after compilation something like

jmp c000
(assembler, machinecode,it means JuMPtoadress 49152 in memory and execute the comand there).

Binary Data is always smaller like text-data.
Then programs contain lots of debug-information (code needed to find errors).
Some days ago I stripped down a binary from 20 mb to 4 mb:
strip filename
(strip removes test/debugcode from the end-product).

Then source includes Pictures (media-files), often uncompressed to allow to alter them without qualityloss.
For a final program, they would be compressed to jpeg or with inbuilt methods.

wxbasic is 6 MB (not puppybasic, that is just 143 kb) compiled.
I finally compress it with upx, a "runtime-packer" to 2 MB.

Also wxbasic uses just some parts of the programming library wxidgets.
To compile wxbasic, you need a full wxwidgets-installation. That takes lots of space (compilation needs 1 hour, wxbasic 10 minutes).
wxbasic itself just contains maybe 40% of the wxidget-functions after compilation (it is incomplete, for example it misses Database-Classes).
So lets calculate (veery rough):
2 MB wxbasic compressed
= 6 MB uncompressed
= maybe 18 MB unstripped.
wxwidgets is double size, so approx 40 MB.
so 18 + 40 =~ 60MB.
Plus some images and documentation = 70 MB.


My x.org -developer-folder has 600 MB, the final binaries 100 MB, the files for the Dotpup 35 MB (50 MB just were fonts).

Mark

Last edited by MU on Wed 07 Dec 2005, 19:25; edited 1 time in total
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2005, 19:12    Post subject:  

wxbasicscript: 143 K
Total: 143 K (1 file)

basefunctions.inc: 12 K
Total: 12 K (1 file)
= 155k

Lua (was included but not used)
128k (I seem to remember)

tinyc = small
gcc is an external add on because the libraries are 30 meg
Java (tiny version available) still big
Perl = 9 meg (I think)

I think you are confusing it with wxbasic which is the full language
which is 2 meg
Smile

x11 (a potential Puppybasic was 200 - 300k) but no one developed or showed an interest

I think most of that is correct Smile

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Puppy WIKI

Last edited by Lobster on Mon 23 Jan 2006, 10:09; edited 1 time in total
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13642
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2005, 19:22    Post subject:  

perl (the naked interpreter) is 1 mb, but you need modules for many tasks.
I made a "mini-perl"-dotpup, that has perl and the Gtk-wrapper (2 MB).
The wrapper allows to create windows, while perl itself is a pure comandline-language.
You will need more modules like CGI/LWP (for dynamic webpages), or Database-modules.

I think puppys perl (usr_devx.sfs) is 20-30 MB, that should cover most.
Included in that is documentation and sources, so you might be right with 9 MB for the pure "program-files" (Interpreter + modules).

Mark

Last edited by MU on Thu 08 Dec 2005, 09:53; edited 1 time in total
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menno

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 78
Location: Bedum (Nederland)

PostPosted: Wed 07 Dec 2005, 20:01    Post subject: small smaller smallest  

I donn't know of it is of any interest , but I often use PEU (diviration of Euphoria) . It is itself is a pure comandline-language and 160 Kb .
If you like to do X11 it can add to it GraphApp (900k) or wxWindows .
It has wrapper to SQLite and other things . The nice thing is (to me) that it works in Linux and MSwindows . (This is also true for X11Basic.)
I use it as script lanquage in CGI under Appache . Greatings Menno .
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BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7047
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec 2005, 09:45    Post subject: Re: Programming Languages in Puppy  

Lobster wrote:
Flash is going Forth again (Lock up your programmers)

Languages IN Puppy:
    Linux Script (similar to MS Dos batch files) Widely used by GuestToo and Barry
    Tcl/tk (pronounced tickle and very powerful and mature)
    PuppyBasic - also called wxbasicscript ( a smaller version of wxbasic) - we are just starting with this - MU created this especially for Puppy
    XUL - built into Mozilla - I think this has great potential for Puppy but am too stupid to implement . . . Byzantine OS uses this
    SVG - similar to actionscript - seen a tetris game written in this at croczilla. . .
    javascript - thus of course Ajax (the present hyped language)
    Actionscript - well there is openflash and wink but no one is programming directly in this

Also available:
    Lua - pupget - very interesting language for games (as a glue) - good community
    Tinyc - front end may be in preparation . . .
    GCC C (Puppy can compile its own code with an add on)
    nasm - assembler (G2 dotpup)

Also available in special circumstances with a following wind:

    Perl - pupget
    Java - command line version available somewhere
    Ruby - With Qemu Puppy
    Python - available from grafpup
    Xbasic - just go to website and install - GUI code also runs on Windows
    Gambas - I loved this but no one else was keen
    RealBasic - now free - not got this working John Murga may have done so?
    ASQ - pre alpha design stage - Lobster insanity
    X11 Basic (was a potential Puppy Basic - never got used)


What have I missed?

Rolling Eyes


Lobster,
You missed Postscript.
Postscript is a language, and could proably do a lot more than just page layout if given half a chance.
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Thu 08 Dec 2005, 20:24    Post subject:  

Post script can do amazing stuff.

This guy has a bunch of stunning examples:
http://www.tinaja.com/post01.asp
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syzygy

Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 76
Location: wollongong

PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec 2005, 05:00    Post subject:  

and just to go full circle, isn't postscript a forth derivative?
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Guest
Guest


PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec 2005, 06:56    Post subject:  

Ya wanna learn Linux, eh ?

Are ya committed ?

Get Slackware..........any reason why

It's one of the oldest distros

It don't have any slick tools but it does the job as does it very very well
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othomas
Guest


PostPosted: Wed 14 Dec 2005, 06:11    Post subject: Slackware  

LOL Slackware is the one I learned with. Back in the days when a 28K modem was FAST and a big HD was 40meg.

Weeks to download 80 some floppies then weeks to compile it and then a few more weeks to get it working..good time had by all..Smile
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Ted Developer Dog
Guest


PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2006, 08:52    Post subject: harping on GeexBox greatness again  

GeexBox does contain its source, toolchain, and Arch structure (117M)
link on main page. I have learned alot from it. It does compile from puppy with two script bracking errors ( touch without -t support and LANG not being set)
I have been able to compile for source to executable in about four hours.
It has advanced stuff in multimedia of course. It includes compiler, busybox, linux kernel etc.
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kethd

Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 451
Location: Boston MA USA

PostPosted: Mon 23 Jan 2006, 11:46    Post subject:  

Intriguing -- ISO Generator!?!

http://geexbox.org/en/downloads.html

GeeXboX ISO Generator ... Size: 8.2 MB
With this package, it is easy to modify GeeXboX in a few seconds without having to build the sources. The generator produces an ISO image of the GeeXboX, ready to be burned on disc, that you may have customized to fit your needs. The software is multi-platforms, working currently under both GNU/Linux, Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows 9x/NT/2k/XP systems. It is able to produce ISO images for both i386 and PowerPC targets.

GeeXboX 0.98.7 Sources (Lite Package) Size: 313 KB
GeeXboX 0.98.7 Sources (Full Package) Size: 116.8 MB
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