Unable to boot Live CD or do 1-click install from CD drive

Booting, installing, newbie
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cirrus
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Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009, 17:09

Unable to boot Live CD or do 1-click install from CD drive

#1 Post by cirrus »

Hi,

Puppy looks like a great distro & I have followed the instructions to create a live cd and a 1-click install:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 91&t=42876

The cds work fine in a modern pc but I am trying to install to an oldish Sony laptop (pcg srx-77) with an external CD drive. The cd drive connects to the laptop via an iLink cable. I can install various Ubuntu distros absolutely fine, run Gparted software etc. but puppy fails at the boot stage every time after it has loaded the drivers to access the disk drives with the message:
Searching for puppy files in computer disk drives.....pup-430.sfs not found
I've tried various boot codes but to no avail:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=46922

also reformatted the HD with Inode=128 as per here:

Code: Select all

mkfs.ext3 -I 128 /dev/hda1
But I'm not making any progress! & I would like to find a solution for my old laptop. Thanks very much for any advice.
regards
john

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue 23 Jun 2009, 15:33

#2 Post by pqwoerituytrueiwoq »

i tried unetbootin and got that
also tried updateing my flash drive manually and got that error

cichlasoma
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun 13 Sep 2009, 01:57

#3 Post by cichlasoma »

As i've reported for 4.25 already, I often got
"pup-425.sfs not found. Dropping out to initial-ramdisk console."
when trying to boot from USB FD, booting from CD is OK. It happens on various machines and it's the same in 4.30. I get the error message at every second boot with almost perfect regularity; after pressing ctrl-alt-del when it displays, it boots OK almost always.
Have you tried 4.21? I don't encounter the issue in it and generally find it much more stable at the moment.

cirrus
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009, 17:09

#4 Post by cirrus »

Thanks for the suggestion but it fails at same point, this time 'pup_421.sfs not found'

I think the problem must be when the kernel disk drivers are loaded. Up to this point, it can obviously see the cd drive correctly but as soon as the drivers are loaded, it fails to recoginise the cd drive anymore.

Is there anyway to bypass this stage?

Highman
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri 25 Sep 2009, 12:44
Location: Collon, Ireland

#5 Post by Highman »

I get this same error when trying to boot on an IBM Thinkpad 600e. Would be interested in a resolution.

Bruce B

#6 Post by Bruce B »

Highman wrote:I get this same error when trying to boot on an IBM Thinkpad 600e. Would be interested in a resolution.
The so called 'resolution' is up to you and you alone! This is an old ongoing problem. Considering how long this has been tolerated, I don't think a resolution is at the top of the list.

I suppose if YOU do your own manual Frugal Install, it will work. (if you do it properly).

Highman
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri 25 Sep 2009, 12:44
Location: Collon, Ireland

#7 Post by Highman »

Bruce B wrote:
Highman wrote:I get this same error when trying to boot on an IBM Thinkpad 600e. Would be interested in a resolution.
The so called 'resolution' is up to you and you alone! This is an old ongoing problem. Considering how long this has been tolerated, I don't think a resolution is at the top of the list.

I suppose if YOU do your own manual Frugal Install, it will work. (if you do it properly).
I am new to Linux. This is my first attempt at installing it. I assumed that this forum was here to HELP people. I find your reply very obnoxious, rude and not very helpful!

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rjbrewer
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#8 Post by rjbrewer »

Highman;

Thinkpad 600s' don't have much ram and installing the latest Puppies
can be difficult.
Type thinkpad 600 up in search and scroll through the pages and
find the orange highlighted ones for a start.
Here's one example:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 95&t=35901

Many people are successful with those old laptops and Puppy.

Welcome to Puppy; hope it gets better for you from now on.

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

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moogsydodong
Posts: 81
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Location: Tagum City, Davao del Norte, Mindanao, Philippines

#9 Post by moogsydodong »

hi guyz...

please ignore Bruce B, :)

any way...I think the problem with the "pup-425.sfs not found" is beacause of the kernel modules not properly loaded at bootup...that happens to me back then when I installed slaxer pup in the usb...

if you are having trouble installing using cd maybe you can do the manual frugal install follow this steps...

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=39513

just boot in whatever system in your machine is capable of booting then follow the steps in the above link...

hope this helps...
...SHUT UP AND LISTEN!!!...In a battle there is only ONE COMMANDER!!!

cirrus
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 24 Sep 2009, 17:09

#10 Post by cirrus »

Thanks to moogsydodong & rjbrewer for their helpful, positive, necessary replies. Will have a look at this suggestion.

Bruce B

#11 Post by Bruce B »

Highman wrote:I am new to Linux. This is my first attempt at installing it. I assumed that this forum was here to HELP people. I find your reply very obnoxious, rude and not very helpful!
I'm not new. Do not waste your time, it's a Puppy issue for developers to fix. They don't fix it. You want help, sure, but the developers are not at the keyboard responding to you offering so much as a clue! Are they?

If they do not fix it, then who will? Just being realistic, you will or then who will?

Recommendation others and I made is a manual frugal install. (workaround)

Recommending a frugal install is not obnoxious, rude or unhelpful. That's the direction to go in.

Or if you really think your words about me have merit, and they don't, knock yourself out trying to get it to boot, it won't work.

I told you the truth as near as I know what it is with this unresolved problem.

You're peeved? How do you think I feel going through all this for maybe a couple years?

This is about users helping users and sometimes we have to fix or work around what developers should be doing but don't.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, the bottom line is it doesn't work.

But with my experience, reading about this over and over, I am not surprised in the least. It is a long ongoing problem that DOES NOT get fixed.

Questions? Comments?

Bruce B

#12 Post by Bruce B »

moogsydodong wrote: please ignore Bruce B, :)

any way...I think the problem with the "pup-425.sfs not found" is beacause of the kernel modules not properly loaded at bootup...that happens to me back then when I installed slaxer pup in the usb...
Here's my rant. Don't put this problem at the feet of Linus or Andrew. Why? Because if for some reason the problem is kernel drivers not loading, it implies a kernel problem.

It also lets Puppy developers off the hook for the outcome of their coding.

If I cannot write code that works, it is my bad.

It is very simple to spot the exact point where Puppy can't find the sfs file, even though it knows where it is. Most of us do know exactly where it is, by the way.

Then again, if you go from version to version and check the code, you will note - no effort to FIX it. (I've not checked the newest bleeding edge versions, neither do I intend to).

If the problem continues from version to version AND nobody has even bothered to work on the code where it happens, it defies logic to think it is being worked on.

And when we have other Live CDs from other vendors which work on a similar principle, load the kernel, and initrd, then remount and load an sfs type file and they really do work, it makes any argument that it's somehow related to non-Puppy people, much harder.

Others have figured it out.

Puppyt
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PCMCIA hijinks in puppy

#13 Post by Puppyt »

I'm zigactly with you there, cirrus - this is a frustrating problem I'm currently having with loading puppy430-small [and in fact, Tipsy's 412 puplet has just given me the same "digital wedgie" - I'm trying other 4-series puplets as I write this] on my Toshiba Portege 3480ct with PIII, 500 MHz, 192 MB RAM. I put in a 160GB hard drive into it ages ago and along with XPpro I've got 4 other non-puppy4 puplets running happily on it [conkers - dpup 476j just flunked on my laptop, running alongside the computer I am typing from].

Usually the 2-stage loading process is required for getting around Puppy's PCMCIA CD-drive issues in these old laptops - copy the puplet's initrd, vmlinuz [hey - I just noticed that XP capitalized it to VMLINUZ during the copy.... I wonder....] and the all-important pup sfs file ONTO the "C" drive of windows, where they get "picked up" instead of looping back to the PCMCIA cd drive. [FUME Lighthouse 422 just ditched me - going back in to rename vmlinuz with lower case]

Bruce_B is well on the record on other threads for pointing out the oversight that has occurred somewhere along the development line in Puppy4, and I am a bit distressed too that it still hasn't been corrected by all those sterling volunteers [just tried "puppy pfix=ram PMEDIA=pcmcia" and got a "Disabling IRQ #11" message just before the red writing listed in your original subject line - don't remember seeing that before - hmmm]. I would hope that any ambiguities or mis-reads earlier in this thread that might have caused any parties concern cease immediately - we're all on the same side here.

Cirrus, I'll post directly for you once any Puppy4 puplet behaves itself in loading up [(':cry:')Fudge - Turbopup 420 just bit the dust] on this old machine. [ChoicePup - will you work for me?]
edit - MacPup411F works like a dream on this machine - the problem is more complicated than a "puppy4 -universal" issue.

Also, I'll try out ttuuxx's 220 (puppy2 updated to work with puppy3 and puppy4 pets and sfs') and 214X (version 11 now, I think), and a few puppy3 puplets might have to serve. [Nix on Barebones412 too - the rot seems to have set in early for the puppy4's responses to PCMCIA booting]. I hope cirrus that your puppy community experience gets warmer and brighter. I bet somebody who really knows what is going on here will post us a solution...

I wonder if also having those 3 key boot files on a USB drive, and using the PMEDIA=usbflash argument (or whatever) might provide the workaround...

Puppyt
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Live CD puppy from ttuuxx

#14 Post by Puppyt »

cirrus -

ran a quick check with ttuuxx's 214X v11 puplet (http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 77&t=42553) WITHOUT copying those 3 files onto any drive first, to be properly detected during bootup from a pcmcia cd-rom.

SUCCESS! Am running it Live now, and although I am finding a few minor problems with various port recognitions, I am running 214X11 on the Portege 3480CT in exactly the same way all other puppy versions load on my desktop machines (even my socket 7s). Some, but not all puppy4 apps will run in that environment.

This is a Big Thing - I must have tried about 50 puplets on the Portege and this is the first time this one-click load has been possible. (You pplluurrrryy beauty, ttuuxx!)

Can I suggest you look into ttuuxx's other recent offering of 4.3.1 - I am willing to bet he has similarly put the shine back on puppy4 for us recycler's using PCMCIA drives. Check out the latest MacPup too. dpup didn't work for me, but maybe upup might (puppy5's), and nor did MU's Newyearspup02 RC10micro. The PMEDIA=usbflash argument didn't work for me as a workaround, but rjbrewer's method for frugal installs (link posted earlier in the thread) looks a promising solution if you must have a particular puppy4 version that won't take the boot kindly on your old Sony.

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Aitch
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#15 Post by Aitch »

I'll 2nd that, 'try ttuuxxx's 214xx'

I often recommend and get good results and 'yihaas' from successful posters

Bruce, you may well be right, but as an old lag at this, please try not to make the noobies uncomfortable, just because they don't know

You are probably better placed than many in getting this issue resolved by sending the devs your cli/bash scripting fix that you no doubt use,
and telling them of your disdain - that would put the grunt where it's needed IMHO

others, please let's not turn this thread into a personals column

Aitch :)

Puppyt
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1-click install workarounds on old laptops

#16 Post by Puppyt »

cirrus,

looking back through my first post of 1am (here) I see that I didn't clarify my statement properly about being "a bit disappointed" that puppy4's weren't loading up from ye olde PCMCIA drives without difficulty, and it may have seemed - at a stretch, like I was diss-ing puplets that were dropping out as I was posting. Let me be clear: anyone who contributes to Puppy development is an absolute Legend, and well deserving of my adoration and awe. They are pushing the envelopes in so many directions it makes my head spin - I totally accept that not all 'antiques' can be brought up to speed with full hardware recognition on the release of every new puppy - just how many Miracles do I expect a day now that I've found Puppy Linux??

There are other workarounds that might help with the Puppy4/PCMCIA issue, listed here (for the 3480ct but it might help you too): http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 17&t=26153

If you are on the path of emigrating from Windows, as I am, I can tell you that the latest CDBurnerXP (v 4.2.4.1351) now lets you burn (puppy) isos as "open" CDs and DVDs just like Puppy always has. Start a new 'data' disc, drag your iso file to the burn directory and say 'yes' to 'burn as iso?' - this gets you to the 'Write iso image' dialogue and if you ensure that "Disc at once" and "Finalize disc" are left UNchecked (and don't click on "burn as iso"), you will be able to burn live discs that are open for business. It's the only Windows equivalent I have found to the innovation that Puppy has had from the very start...

[update - ttuuxx's "puppies-431.1-main-Xserver.iso" and "puppies-431.1" can't load from PCMCIA drive like his 214X - am checking my download file integrity and burn properties to confirm this 'cos that will also give false negatives on what will and won't work on old hardware - provided the disc drive itself is not dying - that too can give hangs when the kernel is supposed to be loading up.]

Bruce B

#17 Post by Bruce B »

Aitch wrote: Bruce, you may well be right, but as an old lag at this, please try not to make the noobies uncomfortable, just because they don't know
Yes, of course. I was not my intention to make anyone uncomfortable.

Facts are what they are, in retrospect I could have, should have presented them more gently, but the facts don't change.
Aitch wrote:You are probably better placed than many in getting this issue resolved by sending the devs your cli/bash scripting fix that you no doubt use, and telling them of your disdain - that would put the grunt where it's needed IMHO
It doesn't do any good - at all.

*) I suppose if I had a computer that did it, I could fix the failure to find the pup*.sfs file

or

*) Lacking that, certainly write some debugging code

The problem is: Even if I did one of the above, it wouldn't help anyone but me.

You are a very good researcher. Suppose you can show me where any Puppy developer ever asked for help on this one? (not that I'm trying to obligate you to do the search)

Bruce

Bruce B

#18 Post by Bruce B »

Aitch wrote: You are probably better placed than many in getting this issue resolved by sending the devs your cli/bash scripting fix that you no doubt use,
and telling them of your disdain - that would put the grunt where it's needed IMHO
It is where it happens. Namely, topics where Puppy will not even run.

Here is the programming challenge:

For example 4.21.

The developer already knows exactly where pup_421.sfs is before the init script runs and fails to find.

The reason it knows this is the pmedia variable tells it's booting from an optical media. The layout of the media always has placed the pup_421.sfs at / of the media.

If only one optical drive, then it's a given the pup_421.sfs is at (cd)/pup_421.sfs on the only drive available. Making the find extremely easy.

How hard is it to write a script to find a file, when you already know where the file is? The answer is trivial!

If under these most ideal circumstances, the developer still cannot find the file, he can write a debug to trace where his script is failing to 'find the already know location of a file.'

When this problem occurs version after version and the script which is well known to fail never gets fixed, I wonder about the developers' bar. Which I suppose is: It works most of the time and that's good enough.

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Crash
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#19 Post by Crash »

I suppose if I had a computer that did it, I could fix the failure to find the pup*.sfs file
Actually, it is very easy to simulate the problem. Just rename your pup-xxx.sfs file to something else. Next time you boot, the kernel will complain and dump you to the "#" prompt.

You can do all sorts of stuff from the prompt. One useful thing is to type "probepart_init". Then you get a listing of all the partitions that the kernel sees, for instance:

/dev/sda1|ntfs|957312960
/dev/sda2|ntfs|19456000
/dev/sdb1|ext2|976767056
/dev/sdc1|vfat|8016372
/dev/sdd|none|0
/dev/sde|none|0
/dev/sdf|none|0
/dev/sdg|none|0
/dev/sr0|iso9660|0

If you don't want to write all this down, and if you recognize one of the partitions as a writeable device, you can record the results to a file on that device. For instance, from the above I recognize sdb1 as my primary Puppy hard drive. So I will mount it and re-run probepart_init, this time writing its results to a file on the hard drive:

Code: Select all

mkdir /mnt/sdb1
mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/sdb1
cd /mnt/sdb1
probepart_init > results
cd /
umount /mnt/sdb1
So rather than just observing that Puppy doesn't recognize the file, you can actually gather more information that may give a clue as to what is going on.

There is a ton of other stuff you can do when the kernel drops you to the "#" command prompt, but this is just the first thing that comes to mind.

Bruce B

#20 Post by Bruce B »

Crash,

Yes, you can force a failure. But the problem happens with the CD disc booting and would require renaming the file in the ISO, wouldn't it?

And what we get is a known condition where it will fail.

Any idea how to reproduce it when the conditions are theoretically correct?

Bruce

Edited to add: I first encountered this with version 2.17 and where are we now?

We can get an idea how many people report the problem. We cannot know how many don't.

At one time I considered it a bug, but I now consider it part of Puppy's DNA due to the longevity of this one.

I feel frustrated for the user watching the user go though this, with him thinking it 'should' work.

On the other hand, I honestly think if I were to say, "Just try another Linux distro, any Linux distro, live or otherwise, you probably won't have this problem.

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