Puppy 4.3: Why Built on 4.1?
I hesitate to reply, being a bystander and admirer of all the present developers, but I don't think "leadership problems" was meant to imply poor leadership in any way.
I think it meant only that the leader stepped down unexpectedly, even if for understandable personal reasons.
Which, from a technical standpoint is a "leadership problem" for any software development effort, and thus one of the several motivations to come out of retirement temporarily.
Any person who volunteers to help others through software development, is admirable, for whatever period of time they do that. There are worse things people do in this world than coordinate, write, and debug software for others.
I think it meant only that the leader stepped down unexpectedly, even if for understandable personal reasons.
Which, from a technical standpoint is a "leadership problem" for any software development effort, and thus one of the several motivations to come out of retirement temporarily.
Any person who volunteers to help others through software development, is admirable, for whatever period of time they do that. There are worse things people do in this world than coordinate, write, and debug software for others.
- BarryK
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Another extremely important point, that I did not clarify in my post, is that I was working on Woof right through, including while 4.20 was being developed. So of course 4.1.2 was my starting point. Many scripts were worked on intensely by me, especially all of those to do with bootup and shutdown. Even the Xorg Wizard got a couple of major bug fixes.
So, it was not a simple matter of just using scripts from 4.2. I read through much of the 4.2 development thread, looking for what improvements I could apply to 4.3, and incorporated them where I found something. As the case of the Xorg Wizard has been given, I could not simply use the script from 4.2, given how much work I had done on it, nor did I know any bugs had been fixed, that I could have applied. In the case of a few details like that, that was the purpose of 4.3.1.
The basic premise of this thread, that 4.3 was based on 4.1.2, is not correct, it is based on Woof, which had major changes from 4.1.2.
Woof provides all the underlying infrastructure.
Then there is the level of the packages, and as I already posted, they too underwent major upgrades.
So, it was not a simple matter of just using scripts from 4.2. I read through much of the 4.2 development thread, looking for what improvements I could apply to 4.3, and incorporated them where I found something. As the case of the Xorg Wizard has been given, I could not simply use the script from 4.2, given how much work I had done on it, nor did I know any bugs had been fixed, that I could have applied. In the case of a few details like that, that was the purpose of 4.3.1.
The basic premise of this thread, that 4.3 was based on 4.1.2, is not correct, it is based on Woof, which had major changes from 4.1.2.
Woof provides all the underlying infrastructure.
Then there is the level of the packages, and as I already posted, they too underwent major upgrades.
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]
Before everyone rides off into the sunset I have a request.
If possible, could some of the top devs help jrb and his Choicepup efforts so we can have sfs on the fly in an official manner (modular Puppy)?
I don't mean to disparage jrb as his efforts are very good...I would just like to see a few top dogs help him out with the tricky stuff.
There is lots of interest if I read things correctly.
It just seems the Puppy thing to do....TY
OK..back to my sunset,
Eric
If possible, could some of the top devs help jrb and his Choicepup efforts so we can have sfs on the fly in an official manner (modular Puppy)?
I don't mean to disparage jrb as his efforts are very good...I would just like to see a few top dogs help him out with the tricky stuff.
There is lots of interest if I read things correctly.
It just seems the Puppy thing to do....TY
OK..back to my sunset,
Eric
[color=darkred][i]Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.[/i]
Chinese Proverb[/color]
Chinese Proverb[/color]
lets get along
hello
i am a newcomer. but when people critize barry and his efforts,
its not right. why do people tear people down? barry has given
the linux community a great operating system, helped
countless people, and has given up countless hours for
us. if anyone wants to blame someone, blame the image
you see in the mirror.
timremy
i am a newcomer. but when people critize barry and his efforts,
its not right. why do people tear people down? barry has given
the linux community a great operating system, helped
countless people, and has given up countless hours for
us. if anyone wants to blame someone, blame the image
you see in the mirror.
timremy
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This is probably just sloppy wording. Those of us who watched the whole painful episode might think it better described as "membership problems" !WhoDo wrote:.BarryK wrote:Also there were leadership problems after 4.20 was released....
Given that one of the principal bones of contention was that 4.2 was supposed to be the next "official" Puppy suitable for others to work with and create Puplets and that was why certain "nice to haves" couldn't be included; it's one of those strange little ironies that it was sidelined by Barry (for his own, quite proper reasons) and has now the status of a CE!
Never mind WhoDo; I reckon you did a great job, I miss the "bling" and hope it's back in for 4.4.
[color=darkblue][b][size=150]Nick[/size][/b][/color]
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Thankyou
Well said, timremy!
To Barry and Warren (in particular, but others too) this moderately techo person says a big THANKYOU.
Folks, let's be supportive - ask questions if you need, tell us all about your successes, but let's not bite the hands that feed us.
To Barry and Warren (in particular, but others too) this moderately techo person says a big THANKYOU.
Folks, let's be supportive - ask questions if you need, tell us all about your successes, but let's not bite the hands that feed us.
Man, I like the calculators - ever been offline in windows and tried to work out anything complex or tried to convert anything?
Puppy is still the easiest and (for its size) quickest and most comprehensive operating system around and thats why it will continue to be my everyday choice.
Thanks Barry!
Puppy is still the easiest and (for its size) quickest and most comprehensive operating system around and thats why it will continue to be my everyday choice.
Thanks Barry!
Download a better Computer :)
[url=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rDTLJYDHX3g]Puppy Linux Song[/url]
[url=http://www.letterbyletter.co.uk]www.letterbyletter.co.uk[/url]
[url=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rDTLJYDHX3g]Puppy Linux Song[/url]
[url=http://www.letterbyletter.co.uk]www.letterbyletter.co.uk[/url]
I knew that 4.3 was built with Woof before I posted and that this was a revolutionary step forward for Puppy. I was asking about the packages and used the phrase "based on" to describe 4.3's relationship to 4.1. I apologize for any confusion with the concept that 4.3 is "based on" Woof.BarryK wrote:The basic premise of this thread, that 4.3 was based on 4.1.2, is not correct, it is based on Woof, which had major changes from 4.1.2.
Woof provides all the underlying infrastructure.
Then there is the level of the packages, and as I already posted, they too underwent major upgrades.
Based on the replies of late, it does seem like 4.3 used 4.1's packages as a starting point and justifiably so, while bringing in some but not all of the advancements made in 4.2. I figured Barry might have just started with 4.3/Woof before 4.2 was done or maybe there were specific reasons why specific decisions about packages were made or maybe something else I did not understand or maybe a combination of all three. Thus, I posted.
No criticism was intended, and I apologize if anything I've said has led to a misunderstanding. For my part, I've found most of the replies in this thread quite elucidating of not only my initial question but also a number of other issues.
Yes, that'd be really awesome!Caneri wrote:If possible, could some of the top devs help jrb and his Choicepup efforts so we can have sfs on the fly in an official manner (modular Puppy)?
I don't mean to disparage jrb as his efforts are very good...I would just like to see a few top dogs help him out with the tricky stuff.
There is lots of interest if I read things correctly.
It just seems the Puppy thing to do....TY
Just without the desktop icons, please; it's enough the home directory is messy the way it is
- Lobster
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Being positive can be hard.
Many of don't or can not be bothered.
BarryK is bothered.
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01184
We nearly lost 4.2
I am glad to hear that woof will continue and a new distro too
I am also inspired by those who help out by testing, encouraging and finding value in peoples efforts.
Many of don't or can not be bothered.
BarryK is bothered.
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01184
We nearly lost 4.2
I am glad to hear that woof will continue and a new distro too
I am also inspired by those who help out by testing, encouraging and finding value in peoples efforts.
Its ready and after a week and a half of testing I think its perfect. Check out SFS_Linker-431bk-1.0.Caneri wrote:If possible, could some of the top devs help jrb and his Choicepup efforts so we can have sfs on the fly in an official manner (modular Puppy)?
Those of you who really want SFS's on the fly should try this out and let me know what you think. It seems to have slipped under the radar, not a lot of testers so far.
Puppies strength is also it's weakness ie it's flexibility. A jack of all trades...let's list them
1)run from live cd...save data to various media
2)run from live cd(dvd) and save back to it.
3)run frugally from hard drive installed amongst other operating systems on the same partition.
4)run from flash sticks / slow media
5)run as a 'normal' install
(I'm sure I missed something )
each of those has many variations including ways in which it is booted.
Software can come from...
1)Included with the core 'install'
2)downloaded/installed with a package manager from a repository
3)downloaded as a self installing package
4)downloaded from other distros and installed using various methods
5)loaded as an archive file at boot (and now runtime)
Imaging getting all that running just right...so many possible combinations.
Compare with say ubuntu...installed as 'normal' to a partition, uses files vetted by a reliable source, software from a repository, boots with grub...that's it....sounds a lot simpler (boring!)
Oh and with these other distros I suspect you get what yer given rather than many users all wanting this and that included(and getting it).
And how many custom ubuntu's are there...yes another puppy feature is the ease of making a custom distro.
Oh and then there's the experimental build systems.....
Puppy is perceived as small and therefore simple....but in reality it's probably the most complicated distro there is...much more of a challenge than just pile everything there is in linux-land onto a partition so you can't go wrong.
I mentioned before about 'wow, how do you fit all that?' in...not by accident that's for sure.....the looks should be as smart as the thinking that goes in there too...something I learnt a long time ago.
well just felt the need to post that lot
mike
1)run from live cd...save data to various media
2)run from live cd(dvd) and save back to it.
3)run frugally from hard drive installed amongst other operating systems on the same partition.
4)run from flash sticks / slow media
5)run as a 'normal' install
(I'm sure I missed something )
each of those has many variations including ways in which it is booted.
Software can come from...
1)Included with the core 'install'
2)downloaded/installed with a package manager from a repository
3)downloaded as a self installing package
4)downloaded from other distros and installed using various methods
5)loaded as an archive file at boot (and now runtime)
Imaging getting all that running just right...so many possible combinations.
Compare with say ubuntu...installed as 'normal' to a partition, uses files vetted by a reliable source, software from a repository, boots with grub...that's it....sounds a lot simpler (boring!)
Oh and with these other distros I suspect you get what yer given rather than many users all wanting this and that included(and getting it).
And how many custom ubuntu's are there...yes another puppy feature is the ease of making a custom distro.
Oh and then there's the experimental build systems.....
Puppy is perceived as small and therefore simple....but in reality it's probably the most complicated distro there is...much more of a challenge than just pile everything there is in linux-land onto a partition so you can't go wrong.
I mentioned before about 'wow, how do you fit all that?' in...not by accident that's for sure.....the looks should be as smart as the thinking that goes in there too...something I learnt a long time ago.
well just felt the need to post that lot
mike
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Good post Mike.
Ubuntu's probably the distro Puppy's going to be compared with most. I'm an admirer of Ubuntu - it's very solid and stable in my experience - but those virtues come at a price. It's very hard to change anything in Ubuntu, for example to install any software which isn't in the repository.
I think there's room for both approaches to making a Linux distro.
Ubuntu's probably the distro Puppy's going to be compared with most. I'm an admirer of Ubuntu - it's very solid and stable in my experience - but those virtues come at a price. It's very hard to change anything in Ubuntu, for example to install any software which isn't in the repository.
I think there's room for both approaches to making a Linux distro.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.
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Yeah; it's a worry. Anyone who does anything in public or voluntary service pretty quickly gets to take the positive as read. Somehow, being negative is just so much easier.Lobster wrote:Being positive can be hard.
Many of don't or can not be bothered.
BarryK is bothered.
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01184
We nearly lost 4.2
I am glad to hear that woof will continue and a new distro too
I am also inspired by those who help out by testing, encouraging and finding value in peoples efforts.
Perhaps it's time for some resolutions to be kind and polite and positive and generally "nice" to one another. I'm up for it; is anyone else?
[color=darkblue][b][size=150]Nick[/size][/b][/color]
I'm in........nic2109 wrote:Yeah; it's a worry. Anyone who does anything in public or voluntary service pretty quickly gets to take the positive as read. Somehow, being negative is just so much easier.Lobster wrote:Being positive can be hard.
Many of don't or can not be bothered.
BarryK is bothered.
http://www.puppylinux.com/blog/?viewDetailed=01184
We nearly lost 4.2
I am glad to hear that woof will continue and a new distro too
I am also inspired by those who help out by testing, encouraging and finding value in peoples efforts.
Perhaps it's time for some resolutions to be kind and polite and positive and generally "nice" to one another. I'm up for it; is anyone else?
Spup Frugal HD and USB
Root forever!
Root forever!
triumph
Whodo and Barry - what's happening here was precisely what happened to Whodo after the release of his "baby" 4.2CE.
Was that burnout?
Also for Barry: Puppy is already high in the Distrowatch ranking. That's comforting enough.
We are learning as a community. Brad (Technosaurus) has seen what happened in 4.2CE. and was forewarned.
TO DO: Let's not forget a feedback vote after a project is released, so that the leader/team will somehow feel confident about what % of people he/they have satisfied. (Expect less than 100%.)
Was that burnout?
Also for Barry: Puppy is already high in the Distrowatch ranking. That's comforting enough.
We are learning as a community. Brad (Technosaurus) has seen what happened in 4.2CE. and was forewarned.
TO DO: Let's not forget a feedback vote after a project is released, so that the leader/team will somehow feel confident about what % of people he/they have satisfied. (Expect less than 100%.)
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].
cut the crap
why do people want puppy to become ubuntu pup puppy is great and gets the job done so support please
- Lobster
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For those into a more positive approach, perhaps learn a little more about reframing . . .
http://changingminds.org/techniques/gen ... raming.htm
http://changingminds.org/techniques/gen ... raming.htm
engagement
OK then, let's use the opposite which is "engagement". We are all for Barry being engaged in development while also welcoming CE teams who will alternately take care of continuity and user-friendliness of the Puppy builds.
Even then, any CE team would find it hard to fully satisfy "user-friendliness"...
Even then, any CE team would find it hard to fully satisfy "user-friendliness"...
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].