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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Puppy a la carte: package management; installing Icewm
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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papaschtroumpf


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 11:44    Post subject:  Puppy a la carte: package management; installing Icewm  

I run puppy from a USB key, so the disctinction of a package being on the live CD or in the pupxxx file doesn't really exit for me.

Is one method more efficient than the other, or is it basically equivalent to install a package while building the live CD versus adding it later?

If there is no real advantage to building it as part of the "live CD" I would prefer to build a minimalist live CD to put on the USB key, then add packages while running from the USB key itself, this way I can always change my mind about a package later (since pupget won't remove a package that is on the "liveCD').

Which leads me to: what is the "minimal" installation needed to get puppy and pupget up and running? Looks like I need to run X to run pupget or is thre a command line version? the reason I ask is I'd rather use icewm so why even install fvwm95 if I don't need to?

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Flash
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 15:04    Post subject:  

What about barbones Puppy? I don't know much about it but from what I do know, it might be what you're looking for.
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papaschtroumpf


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 15:14    Post subject:  

Thanks! I kept hearing about it but I couldn't find a link to it. I expected it to be on the ibiblio site.
I think this is exactly what I want.

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GuestToo
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 15:36    Post subject:  

a Puppy iso or an Unleashed iso has most of the programs in /usr, which is in ram

adding packages later, the programs are usually installed on a drive (usually a hard drive) somewhere

programs installed in /usr (ram) may start a little faster ... if you have limited space in ram you may prefer to install programs on your hard drive

programs installed on the hard drive may still be installed and run even if you boot a different version of Puppy

if you make your own Unleashed Puppy, you can put what you want in it and leave what you want out ... Icewm does not need Fvwm95 to run ... Pizzasgood made an Icewm iso (available at www.linuxtracker.org ) ... i haven't uploaded an Icewm Unleashed package, but it is easy to make one (mostly, i hadn't decided what themes is should include in the package) ... there is a new Icewm version available, but from the changelog, it doesn't look like there is much difference

as far as the difference between dotpups and PupGet ... PupGet is more integrated with Puppy and Unleashed ... dotpups are more flexible, and intended to be easy to use (especially for people who are used to Windows)
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papaschtroumpf


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 15:58    Post subject:  

Thank for the explanation. Since what I want is a fully portable linux-on-a-usb-stick, everything needs to be installed on the USB stick: no CD, no harddrive.

This means that my pupxxx file is on my USB key also, not a hardrive.

Looks like I definitely want to go with a basic minimal setup "liveCD" that I can add to my USB key, then add applications afterwards so that they don't use any RAM unless I'm actually using them.

I suppose icewm is one of those things that should be in /usr though since it would be part of the basic package.

Is it possible to use the dotpup to make the unleashed package? I'm not setup to build under a 2.4 kernel. I have installed VectorLinux 5 but it's 2.6 nad I discarded my Mandrake 9.2 CDs a long time ago.
Or is there some way to "extract" the icewm component of pizzasgood's iso and use it in a 1.0.3 build?

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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 16:17    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
What about barbones Puppy? I don't know much about it but from what I do know, it might be what you're looking for.


LOL! "barebones" still includes games, sylpheed and such Very Happy

I'll just have to remaster my own. Nowif only there was an unleashed icewm (hint hint)

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GuestToo
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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun 2005, 18:26    Post subject:  

Icewm should run ok from your drive (hard, usb) even if fvwm95 is not installed ... files that are used a lot tend to be cached in ram anyway

(in other words, if you have Icewm running from your drive now, and you make and boot an Unleashed Puppy without fvwm95, Icewm should run the same as it did before)

i really should upload an Unleashed package

it's easy to make, anyway

you need to make a folder called something like icewm-1.2.20

you want /etc/windowmanager in it ... just make a folder called etc and copy the windowmanager file to icewm-1.2.20/etc/

the Icewm binaries go in icewm-1.2.20/usr/X11R6/bin/ ... though they could go in any folder in your PATH ... the binaries in my dotpup package are:
icewm icewmclockcmd puppy-browser
icewm-session2 icewmpoweroff puppy-editor
icewmbg icewmreboot puppy-email
most of them are just small script wrappers

you could save 100k or so by leaving out icewmbg, if you don't use Icewm's background setting program

copy your /root/.icewm folder to /icewm-1.2.20/usr/local/share/ ... (rename .icewm to icewm ... without the dot)

put the icewm-1.2.20 folder in your Unleashed packages folder, and Icewm should show up in the packages list

you might want to delete some of the larger Icewm themes, especially if you don't use them much
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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 02:05    Post subject:  

I'll give it a try, in fact I had already started on it before I saw your post.
Instead of working from within puppy, I was working off several dotpups and combining them, just moving things around to the right directories.

What I'm doing is basically using the contents of the IceWM Full 1.2.20 DotPup but updating the menus to the equivalent of the IceWM Menu for Puppy 1.0.3 Dotpup.

I also decided to provide the following themes:

- 4Colors-Blue as a minimal theme t work on really old HW
- G2-Aqua because I wanted a Mac like one and it is the base of others offered as DotPups
- IceKeramic for a KDE look (I'm thinking about using this as the default)

I also like the WinXP one Very Happy

I really also like Brushed Metal and True Curve, but at 22)K+ each I don't think they belong in a basic unleashed package, especially since they can be added later with a DotPup



The one thing I wasn't sure what to do with was the html file, so I'm leaving it out for now

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Last edited by papaschtroumpf on Tue 21 Jun 2005, 02:54; edited 1 time in total
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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 02:41    Post subject:  

also I noticed that there is no description for the package I made in the createpuppy graphical package tool. where does the description come from?
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BarryK
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:13    Post subject:  

When you create a package for Unleashed, then run "createpuppy", the script will see the new package and create an entry in file "packages.txt".

You can manually edit packages.txt, and add a comment.
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JontomXire


Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Location: Eastleigh, UK

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 04:02    Post subject:  

I've been seeing stuff about icewm all over the place, but couldn't find any sort of package for it. I am also not sure how, without an unleashed package for it, I could possibly build a Puppy ISO with just icewm and not the other one. Surely if I install icewm on top of a standard puppy ISO and then remaster the CD I will end up with both on the CD?

Barry, please could you create some definitive links on your website to where to find all the dotpups. People mention that they find pages in the Wiki with them, but it would be nice to have a comprehensive and easy to find index. Ditto for the unleashed packaged.

When I get around to it I know what I want in my custom Puppy Distros (I've got more ambitious recently) and I am quite happy to convert dotpups and pupgets to unleashed packages to get exactly what I want and build it from scratch. However I need to find all the packages first.

While I'm here I'd like to say that I'm sure it won't be entirely straightforward with no prior experience, but the hints, tips, and links that people have given me are very much appreciated.
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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 11:23    Post subject:  

icewm and a bunch of themes for it are available as a dotpup on the wiki: http://www.goosee.com/puppy/wikka/dotpups (or in the forums here)
You can at least give it a try that way and see if you like it.
the reason I'm building an unleashed version is because I want to get rid of fvvm95 and jwm completely and make icewm the default.

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GuestToo
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 12:27    Post subject:  

the icewm help files would go in /usr/share/doc/

i made a file called icewm.html with links to the documentation on the Icewm website, but you could put all the help files in /usr/share/doc/ instead ... with the icewm.html file, the help page should open if you type "man icewm"

it's easier to pick the themes you like, as opposed to picking a set of themes that would be of most use to everybody who might install the package ... the icewm package has been downloaded over 1,000 times from this server alone ... some people like smaller fonts, some people like larger fonts, some people like blue, some people don't ...

i compiled Icewm 1.2.21, and it seems to be running ok, so far ... (it's 10 or 20k larger than Icewm 1.2.20) ... maybe i'll make an Unleashed package and upload it
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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 12:41    Post subject:  

maybe the package should only include a simplistic 4 color scheme and people can provide separate packages for themes.

By the way. is the next version worth the extra RAM?

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papaschtroumpf


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 15:00    Post subject:  

or maybe include a number of themes in the unleashed package and let the user choose which ones to keep and which one to use a default as part of a postinstall script?
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