pUPnGO - 6Mb ISO - Basic Building Block Puplet

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aragon
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#21 Post by aragon »

hi kim,

thanks for the answer, no problem.

the info that you were building it top => down is helpful, that has also been the route i've gone for building a small (not in your terms, it's bloated with nearly 40 mb) audio-server puplet without X (http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36326).

aragon

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puppyiso
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#22 Post by puppyiso »

Hello, goingnuts

I have been seeing your great works. I always wanted a puppy as small as this. I do understand this is a "building block".

But for someone like me who lacks inner knowledge of Puppy, could you kindly upload the xvesa vesion for me to play adding abiword and scim files? That would make a perfect writer's puppy.

ABSOLUTELY immune to any virus... I no longer exchange computer STD thru USB with others.

I tried and successfully booted but Dejabu with DOS screen again.
I also tried CLI version from puppymartin but ended up error when booted.

I just hope that the vesion works with all_lang.sfs from a Japanese version Puppy. Or... at least with SCIM.

Let me play with the possibilities.

Thank you.

John

goingnuts
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#23 Post by goingnuts »

Hi John
puppyiso wrote: ...could you kindly upload the xvesa vesion for me to play adding abiword and scim files?
I do understand the need for a GUI...Missing it my-self sometimes...But learning a lot being there at the black screen.

As I do not plan to make multiple versions (with different applications) I have made a build script (vesa_jwm_pupngo.sh) that will show you how to create a pUPnGO_V01_XVESA_JWM.ISO. Size growth to 8Mb for the ISO.

It is not Puppys original Xvesa but Kdrive (tinyX). JWM is from original Puppy 412. I have cut down on fonts - although they still are adding approx. 1,5MB...(Xwoaf went down to 28Kb as far as I know)

Trying to use original Puppy Xvesa is too complicated for me - ends up in 15-18MB.

In the script there also is shown how to get ttuuxxx xfe file manager inside using downloaded pets. Uncomment if this is needed.Lynx web browser will not be present. Hope this helps a bit.
Kim

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puppyiso
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#24 Post by puppyiso »

Hello, Kim

Thank you for the reply. From GUI back to the dark screen made me feel being blind. I sought after an easy coptout.(Excuse my US English..)

Hmm.. Sounds difficult but I will try it. I feel like going back to high school and learn Algebra all over again.

Thanks.(shivering now..)

John

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#25 Post by goingnuts »

puppyiso wrote:... Sounds difficult ...
It should not be that hard:
- download the script (vesa_jwm_pupngo.sh)
- make it executable
- open a prompt and type ./vesa_jwm_pupngo.sh

...and short after you should have the new pUPnGO_V01_XVESA_JWM.iso sitting in /root/my-documents. Open vesa_jwm_pupngo.sh in Geany for explanations - and make your own modifications if you like.
Kim

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sinc
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#26 Post by sinc »

i don't know anything about scripts really but when i tried to run the xvesa script it did not work all the way. it appears it creates an iso named pUPnGO-v01.1.iso but when it tries to apply xvesa it looks for the iso without the extra .1, just v01.iso. So i renamed the iso and reran the script and it worked but so you know the extra .1 is causing the script to not work right.

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sinc
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#27 Post by sinc »

okay, I can admit that I am not smart enough to make it work. I am trying to use the script with the xvesa_jwm. I went through the script and changed the commands asking for v01.iso to v01.1.iso but now I get a message that says cannot 'stat' /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm.

when i try to boot i get an error that says something like failure to load loop_3 waiting 60 seconds.

any ideas? thanks.

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#28 Post by goingnuts »

sinc wrote:i don't know anything about scripts really but when i tried to run the xvesa script it did not work all the way. it appears it creates an iso named pUPnGO-v01.1.iso but when it tries to apply xvesa it looks for the iso without the extra .1, just v01.iso. So i renamed the iso and reran the script and it worked but so you know the extra .1 is causing the script to not work right.
Hi sinc
You are absolutely right - thank you - I have both versions so did not notice any failure.
I have made a new iso - and to prevent this mess again any future versions will only be tagged inside the iso by a build date. So from now the iso will always be named pUPnGO_V412.iso. I have updated the build-script/howto to reflect this.
The new build has changed layout to reflect the normal Puppy iso directory layout. Otherwise nothing have changed.

I think I am the one not smart enough...
Please try to download the build script again - I have just updated the files so maybe that's why?
Maybe you are missing "ar" - I just tested the script in a fresh frugal P412 and the script fails because "ar" is not present (to unpack .deb-files) Get it here as ar.pet

Again: Thank you!
Kim

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sinc
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#29 Post by sinc »

Kim, I have tried and I still cannot get the vesa build to boot up into a GUI. I have tried to run the build script from Puppy 431 w/ the devx and from Dpup without the devx. On both of them I downloaded the ar.pet and applied it. I wanted to copy the terminal info and paste it here so you could see it but I cannot figure out how to copy from rxvt or mrxvt. I know its supposed to be middle-click but I have a laptop without a middle button and when I try to click simultaneously it simply reruns the script that I highlighted. But I still get the error "cannot stat /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm."

should i be trying to build it from 412, does that matter?

I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge, I have used Puppy for about a year and am fairly familiar with it but I am (obviously) not a programmer of any kind. Thanks.

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ttuuxxx
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#30 Post by ttuuxxx »

sinc wrote:Kim, I have tried and I still cannot get the vesa build to boot up into a GUI. I have tried to run the build script from Puppy 431 w/ the devx and from Dpup without the devx. On both of them I downloaded the ar.pet and applied it. I wanted to copy the terminal info and paste it here so you could see it but I cannot figure out how to copy from rxvt or mrxvt. I know its supposed to be middle-click but I have a laptop without a middle button and when I try to click simultaneously it simply reruns the script that I highlighted. But I still get the error "cannot stat /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm."

should i be trying to build it from 412, does that matter?

I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge, I have used Puppy for about a year and am fairly familiar with it but I am (obviously) not a programmer of any kind. Thanks.
Hi sinc I haven't tried this release at all, but do you have all JWM dependencies?
type
ldd /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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#31 Post by goingnuts »

sinc wrote:should i be trying to build it from 412, does that matter?
Hi sinc
YES! It is based on P412 - I have not tested any other versions with the build script. Sorry for all the trouble you have - It should be straight forward - with the speed of light.... :shock:
Kim

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Keef
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#32 Post by Keef »

I can confirm that the build script works on 412 for me. It throws up the "cannot stat /etc/X11R7/bin/jwm." error, but the iso is still built correctly.
The problem with 431 is the different squashfs version - pupngo is unable to load the zdrv which contains the X stuff.
One observation though - the shutdown screen (save to file etc) does not function. Works ok in the 'vanilla' pupngo though.

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#33 Post by goingnuts »

Keef wrote:I can confirm that the build script works on 412..

One observation though - the shutdown screen (save to file etc) does not function. Works ok in the 'vanilla' pupngo though.
Thank you Keef for confirming it works - I was beginning to have my doubts even though it build again and again here...

The script to not create an optimized vesa/jwm situation - quiting vesa is "unclean" - and I think thats why the save script fails - something is running in the background...but I have not been able to fix the shutdown (exit to prompt). If someone could give a solution...Please!

Also I have found that if you formate a partition and use the save script - pupngo do not load everything thats in the zdrv afterwards - thats a pity. If you say no to copy pup_412.sfs to drive when saving - it will still be copied when booting again. Guess thats original Puppy 412 behavior. First boot after creating personal save file is ok - at this boot pupngo copies pup_412.sfs to the partition - but zdrv-content still works. At second boot (meaning pup_412.sfs is on the partition) zdrv-content are not loaded.

So the principle having additional programs and stuff in the zdrv works when booting from a CD - but not after a save to disk. Guess it would demand a hack of init in initrd.

Working on a fix for some of it...
Kim

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Keef
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#34 Post by Keef »

@goingnuts
I lack the knowledge to help with the JWM issue, but maybe this link will help. Seems to refer to a similar problem, but its all a bit over my head.
See the post by Clarf (dated Dec 02 09, about 3/4 down the page)

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#35 Post by goingnuts »

Your hint was good Keef! Nailed it down to jwm exit not working as expected. At start of Xvesa and jwm errors must be redirected to a tempfile (tmp/xerrs.log) and afterwards to /dev/null. In jwm "exit to prompt" using normal menu program instead of jwm shutdown gives "clean" exit to prompt. And afterwards poweroff and save is working again.

A new build of the pUPnGO have been uploaded - this time with a renamed pup_412.sfs (now named pup_412pupngo.sfs) to avoid conflict with any savefiles of normal P412 on your HD. This is meant as a substitute for the Xvesa_jwm-build script. Includes:
Xvesa, jwm, lynx and "lobotomised" versions of grubconfig and bootmanager running in dialog only. I have managed to strip fonts down to 20K.

Still the purpose is to work on the basic non-GUI pUPnGO but maybe Xvesa/jwm should be part of the basic building block?

The new upload is 8Mb and not using the zdrv-approach, still boots in 16 Mb ram in vmware but: do not expect a beauty-box - but it still is a tiny fellow...
Overview:
Kernel (original) 1,6Mb
initrd.gz (original) 1,3Mb
pup_412pUPnGO.sfs 4,9Mb

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ttuuxxx
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#36 Post by ttuuxxx »

goingnuts wrote: Still the purpose is to work on the basic non-GUI pUPnGO but maybe Xvesa/jwm should be part of the basic building block?
I'm sure a lot of users would find it really helpful to have a basic Xvesa/jwm display, They could build a real UltraLite puppy with it, by adding gtk1.2, rox gtk1, SeamonkeyGtk1 or Dillo, the best background setter, came from 2 series that is gtk1.2 and probably some sort of older gtkdialog to get the scripts going. But that would kind of take the focus away from what your trying to achieve here with a non-GUI version. Almost like you might have to split the project into 2 different areas, GUI vs NonGUI. non gui is great for the more the experienced user, but a GUI version would get a lot of new experimental users a tool to learn with. I personally would favor the basic GUI, cmd is ok, but can be a bit frustrating. I don't know its your excellent groundbreaking project you decide, maybe offer 2 versions.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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sinc
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#37 Post by sinc »

@Kim: thanks for your direction. I finally got around to trying the OLD script in 412 and it did work. Only issue was the save file as mentioned before. I now see you have uploaded a new version and put a basic .iso file on your website. I appreciate it I am going to play around with it and see what kind of stuff I can do with it with the millions of programs ttuuxxx has compiled. should be fun... thanks again.

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clarf
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#38 Post by clarf »

Hi goingnuts,

This Puplet has some interesting points.

I had been follow this thread and found some clear objectives: a basic building block for stand alone applications or embedded systems. But I still has many questions.

What are the secondary objectives?.

What Server applications will be added?.

I think some basic applications that should be included: SSH Server/client, hiawatha or apache webserver, SFTP Server, MySQL DB Server, etc.

As any Server (or embed system) some security settings should be configured and strong Firewall policies applied, did you included some special settings or plan to include in a near future?

Excuse me if I ask too much,

clarf

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ttuuxxx
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#39 Post by ttuuxxx »

Hi Clarf, hmmm feels strange talking to you in another thread,lol lol
I think he's just giving us a base setup, one with no-gui and one with a real basic GUI (maybe).
What you've mentioned is added stuff that you'll probably have to add for your own project. etc.
From what I get from it is that he's proving a minimum base and its up to the user to go from there. Which is good, not everybody wants games, movie players, webservers etc.
But not to worry I have something brewing ;) maybe for this project and another one. but its top-secret :) lol so don't tell anyone, lol (thinks to himself, kind of a stupid sentence since he just posted the statement in forum, lol)
have fun

ps I think the only thing goingnuts hasn't provided is a cutdown devx, if a regular 412 devx would be used, I'm pretty sure it would fail horribly. There should be a basic devx, that users would have to add deps as they build a system, kind of like how I updated the devx for 214x as we added a newer backend, etc. Should really be a basic gcc, with xvesa drivers, make, autoreconf, automake, libtool, aclocal etc
ttuuxxx

ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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#40 Post by goingnuts »

ttuuxxx: You are right: It is the basis I am trying to make - users have to build whatever please them on top of that. GUI/non-GUI - I hope to find a non-conflicting solution where the basic is non-GUI and the GUI is another "building block"...
Definitely some applications would need a graphic display.
Concerning the devx - in my mind it is not needed as you build from the running host and therefore can benefit and use the normal devx to create the stuff you want in pUPnGO there and add it afterwards. I don't think pUPnGO it self should be a building platform/distro. But I would like to get a PET-installer inside...

sinc: Good the OLD script came alive at your place too - I find it amazing that building a new pUPnGO takes 6 sec. here - hopefully you feel inspired to dig into the build script as well...

clarf: ttuuxxx explained it better than I could. I try to make the basis to be build upon and as small as possible. The server build script is just an example of the principle. You should more or less be able to build what-ever you want: server, answering machine, music-player, tv-recorder, single game distro, radio, web browser, sniffers, crackers, surveillance-system, remote-control - you name it.
Even Puppy Linux 412 can be made - exact copy. :)

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