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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
4.4 Pre Alpha test run
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 09:41    Post subject:  

Ok ttuuxxx, comprende.
Following a SeaMonkey news group, I'll raise this issue there for the SeaMonkey 2.0.3 (of which I made the screenshot)
I'll try to find out when SeaMonkey will act like FF.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 09:50    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
Ok ttuuxxx, comprende.
Following a SeaMonkey news group, I'll raise this issue there for the SeaMonkey 2.0.3 (of which I made the screenshot)
I'll try to find out when SeaMonkey will act like FF.

I bet dial-up users love Firefox over Seamonkey when it comes to updates updates Smile
I like the silent updates Firefox does, usually it just says "Firefox has updated, please restart the browser to view the updates" or something like that.
ttuuxxx

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Minnesota

Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 10:06    Post subject: Firefox Seamonkey
Subject description: vote FireFox
 

To add my 2 cents.....

I use Firefox exclusively in the x system.. except on rare occasions will I use IE.... I installed a puppy a year ago to a client out of town. They had someone load Firefox...as that is what they were used to as their main system has Firefox.

In other words.... much of the world is familiar with Firefox... especially refugees from the other side.

All that said... do you know off hand how much of the background code is the same? Is it possible to have both Firefox and Seamonkey in the ISO, if say 70-90% of the background code is the same? Assume for a minute it is the same, the extra overhead could be justified.
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 10:14    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
Béèm wrote:
Ok ttuuxxx, comprende.
Following a SeaMonkey news group, I'll raise this issue there for the SeaMonkey 2.0.3 (of which I made the screenshot)
I'll try to find out when SeaMonkey will act like FF.

I bet dial-up users love Firefox over Seamonkey when it comes to updates updates Smile
I like the silent updates Firefox does, usually it just says "Firefox has updated, please restart the browser to view the updates" or something like that.
ttuuxxx
Yes I know how FF works.
But sometimes when I want to do something quick with FF it can take some 15 minutes to update, addons included, and restart FF befoe i have the FF functioning.
This is a minus for me.
I do SeaMonkey updates, when I am ready for it and when I want it to be done.
I hate the 'big company' approach. Wink

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 19:03    Post subject:  

the largest file is libxul.so and they are typically NOT compatible

it is possible to build without libxul and have quite a few compatible libs, but...

the increased size from all the extra individual libs negates a lot of that

it was planned for all mozilla components to be able run on a shared libxul, but I don't know if they will ever achieve it, because it no longer seems to be that important to the devs

there are quite a few other non-lib files that can be shared though (even by other programs - hunspell dictionaries for instance can be used by enchant via the myspell plugin if linked to /usr/share/enchant/{myspell,hunspell})

so... technically yes but not enough to make a big enough difference to include both... then we would just get a different set of complaints (I wanted to start FF but sm did instead and vice versa ... this is default not that - why? etc...)

Firefox-3.6 has been running great for me and all the kb shortcuts that ie users are used that don't work in sm work as expected by default (for example F5 to refresh and ctrl+enter in the address bar to add http:// and .com)

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 19:13    Post subject:  

I hope you chose FF as the default browser. Those who need seamonkey are good at installing things while the most immigraters from windows are not and do expect Puppy to have Firefox.

Just my two cents as we say.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 19:17    Post subject:  

All this talk about updates got me thinking - we really do not have an update notification system

It could be as simple as diff, wget and an updates file and a bash script.

update file at a fixed location containing:
|pkg1|url|description of update
|pkg2|url|description of update

cd ~/.updates

wget -c http://url.of/updatefile

[ `diff updatefile myupdates` != "" ]

#... parse the diff for new updates
#... show dialog for updates to install
#echo |pkg|url|description of update >>myupdates

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7794
Location: qld

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 19:23    Post subject:  

Hi, so Firefox looks like it, that's fine.

So what mail prog? Sylpheed? And Abiword does html editing?.. that should bring down the iso size without the seamonkey suite.

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 21:09    Post subject:  

the update reminded me of my first Puppy project called "the Pound" after using Puppy for only ~6 months... the concepts eventually became integrated into the web desktop and abandoned, but I think the ideas could be integrated into an update menu similar to the way zigbert has the program menu setup... and go back to the traditional menu setup with submenus coming off of it instead.

If anyone wants a laugh at it, its still here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=35999
(Note: it is barely alpha quality and will replace your jwmrc template so pfix=ram is advisable)

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4335

PostPosted: Fri 05 Mar 2010, 22:33    Post subject:  

some firefox addons other than the traditional ones that have been in sm:

Puppy Personas
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search?q=puppy&cat=personas

System Video
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/83149
Modifies html5 video to use the old-style browser plugins, helpful for websites that use unsupported codecs.

MediaPlayerConnectivity
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/446
Allow you to launch embed video of website in an external application with a simple click ...

ImTranslator 3.3.3
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2257
ImTranslator includes Online Translator in 1640 language combinations and many text2speech as well

fasterfox
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/14833

foxtabs - 3d speed dial
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/8879

Google docs viewer
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/48971
view DOC, DOCX, PDF, PPT and TIFF

zoho tools
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3328
The extension works for .doc, .docx, .rtf, .sxw, .odt for Documents, .xls, .xlsx, .sxc for Spreadsheets & .ppt, .pps, .sxi for Presentation. The files get opened using Zoho Writer for document files, Zoho Sheet for spreadsheets & Zoho Show for presentations.

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esmourguit


Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1288
Location: Sur l'ile aux oiseaux.

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar 2010, 07:01    Post subject:  

Bonjour à tous
Just information.
I just made an update from Seamonkey 2.02 to 2.03 in the same way as firefox. Update is automatic. We must restart Seamonkey after the update.
Such update is not possible with Seamonkey 1.x.x
Cordialement Wink

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richard.a


Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 510
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar 2010, 07:12    Post subject: added to requests list  

I also agree about Firefox. Those we are targetting use IE or maybe Firefox. NEVER Seamonkey. A few may remember Netscape which is where Mozilla came from, of course.

I have not been able to install Firefox to ANY 4.3 series. With a gig of RAM, whether Live or installed to a partition several gigs in size - it says insufficient memory. I have caps by the way). However 4.2/4.2.1 and the beautiful 2.14 with the VW, magnificent, and it will upgrade itself to 3.5.whatever with no fuss.

I don't accept that it does it automatically. It has always asked me.

Save space by not installing an email program. Provide two links for firefox - one for gmail login, the other for using the firefox "simple mail" add-on (and install it).

Install the Firefox add-ons called FireFTP and FlashBlock. The second will speed up installations on older boxen, and the first means you can leave out an FTP client

Leave out the IM client, and in its place do another firefox link to Meebo which is a cloud located multiple social networking client where THEY keep the configuration up to date. Yahoo changed again and I don't have an individual IM client on any system on any computer any more as a result. Someone on these forums criticised me for mentioning Gaim is dead some months back; well it doesn't bother me that much Smile

Install Skype. People who frequent the online environment use it. Not relevant if the devs would rather have something that is pure open source. People online use skype. It annoys me that I have to jump through hoops to install skype on puppy.

There are other points I could make but after last time I don't think I could bother. However I'm attempting to create a sort of standard old computer updating service and if anyone is interested to look, I have just an "advisory" front page at www.oldcomputersnew.southaust.net

I'll watch for a while and see if anyone comments

Richard in Adelaide

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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar 2010, 09:09    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
Béèm wrote:
Ok ttuuxxx, comprende.
Following a SeaMonkey news group, I'll raise this issue there for the SeaMonkey 2.0.3 (of which I made the screenshot)
I'll try to find out when SeaMonkey will act like FF.

I bet dial-up users love Firefox over Seamonkey when it comes to updates updates Smile
I like the silent updates Firefox does, usually it just says "Firefox has updated, please restart the browser to view the updates" or something like that.
ttuuxxx
Dear ttuuxxx,
I can 'happily' tell you that you live in prehistoric times, SeaMonkey wise. Wink
As SeaMonkey and FF are growing closer to each other, the SeaMonkey 2.x.x does have the same update strategy as FF.
So that's one argument going away. Cool

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10747
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar 2010, 09:51    Post subject:  

Béèm wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:
Béèm wrote:
Ok ttuuxxx, comprende.
Following a SeaMonkey news group, I'll raise this issue there for the SeaMonkey 2.0.3 (of which I made the screenshot)
I'll try to find out when SeaMonkey will act like FF.

I bet dial-up users love Firefox over Seamonkey when it comes to updates updates Smile
I like the silent updates Firefox does, usually it just says "Firefox has updated, please restart the browser to view the updates" or something like that.
ttuuxxx
Dear ttuuxxx,
I can 'happily' tell you that you live in prehistoric times, SeaMonkey wise. Wink
As SeaMonkey and FF are growing closer to each other, the SeaMonkey 2.x.x does have the same update strategy as FF.
So that's one argument going away. Cool

I guess we'll tell with the next update
when I updated Firefox 3.5.7 to 3.5.8 it was a 680kb download, have you seen any seamonkey update sizes? I really haven't used Seamonkey 2, I did a bit in the earlier alpha stages and that was about it.
ttuuxxx

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 06 Mar 2010, 10:03    Post subject:  

I kind soul did link me to a Seamonkey 2.something and I tried to get it taken on Choice pup but that did not work.

It was 15mb big as pet.

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