Introducing PULP - 125 MB Puplet for older hardware

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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lvds
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue 23 Jan 2007, 15:15
Location: Near the window

#81 Post by lvds »

Hi Christian,

I was using Pulp 0.03 and I understood lately that there is now a new
release called 0.1 (I guess it means 0.10). I've seen the screenshot above in
the thread here and really I love the new
look and feel you made ! It reminds me of Milax. If you don't know about it
go there and have a look, it is also based on JWM. It may give you some more nice ideas :-)

Unfortunately I can't download the ISO by now because rapidshare reports
and error: "Unfortunately right now our servers are overloaded and we have
no more download slots left for non-members. Of course you can also try again later."
so I'll have to wait before I can test it :P
May I suggest you to place another iso link at uploading.com ? They will allow
you to earn more from the downloads and they have more bandwidth ;-)
Also please could you tell us the size of ISO and MD5 ?

About the file manager and this sort of things, what would you think of
XFE ? It seems to me "more practicable" than emelFM...

The choice of Firepup is great too. maybe we could gain more (space and
usability) by replacing the whole sound packs with only VLC and mozilla-vlc-plugin ?
... vlc 0.86 is very stable. Though I have no idea how much
weights all the multimedia packages in Pulp (including the firefox addons)
From the tests we made here the videos embedded in webpages crashed
less often when using mozilla-vlc-plugin than other plugin...

About pictures, I would be interested if you could tell me how gthumb
compare to xnview on your computer ?

Thank you very much for your great work, I'm a little impatient to
put hands on the iso :P

Best regards
Laurent

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CatDude
Posts: 1563
Joined: Wed 03 Jan 2007, 17:49
Location: UK

#82 Post by CatDude »

Hello zenfunk

I took the liberty (with the approval of Caneri, so thank him not me)
and uploaded a copy of your PULP_0.1.iso
Here:
PULP_0.1.iso
PULP_0.1.iso.md5.txt

The usual Username & Password apply
that is: puppy & linux respectively.

CatDude
.
[img]http://www.smokey01.com/CatDude/.temp/sigs/acer-futile.gif[/img]

DMcCunney
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#83 Post by DMcCunney »

zenfunk wrote:
DMcCunney wrote: I wouldn't. I have early MS Word here, and it works. The problem is one I mentioned previously - I need to deal with current file formats. Early MS Word won't have a clue about current Office doc files, let alone the new XML based docx format. (MS makes changes in their underlying file formats with every new release. I wound up bringing in personal copies of Word and Excel at a former employer, because a remote office had bought and was using a newer version of Office then we had, and was sending us files we couldn't read...)
I'm aware of this problem. MS really wants you to upgrade don't they. I really love my openoffice formats.
Yeah, they do. Occasionally, their format changes are intended to add functionality, but more often I suspect it's to encourage upgrades... :(
If I'm going for CLI word processing, I'll likely use SUE, the Simple Unix Editor. SUE is a Unix port in C of the VDE editor originally written in Assembler for CP/M systems by Eric Meyer.
That's interesting, do you have a binary- pet or something? Is it free software by now?
Yes and yes. No PET, but none needed. It's a single executable with no dependencies. Drop it into /usr/bin or elsewhere in the PATH and run it from a command line as "sue [filename]". A man page and a README are included.

A binary archive is here:
https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor ... on/sue.zip

A source tarball is here:
https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor ... sue07i.tgz
I'd be more concerned with handling spreadsheets and Adobe PDFs.
Spreadsheets is almost a nonissue to me- as a hobbyist, I use spreadsheets not very often. For pdf viewing I can only think about an old xpdf (non CLI for sure) or a pdf2html tool.
I use spreadsheets enough to make it a requirement. I wouldn't mind a console mode spreadsheet app, ala the old Lotus 1,2,3, but I haven't seen one.
Dillo is a nice browser: small, light, and good at what it does. It's what it doesn't do, like JavaScript, that make it an emergency only choice for me.
True, but nevertheless I can look at most webpages in a firefox 2.20 just fine (to be frank, I can't think of a single one that doesn't render properly). In a couple of years this might be a completely different situation, but to get your info off the web, all the browsers included in PULP, Firefox 2.20, dillo and elinks, do very well- for now.
It's the "for now" part that's the kicker. Yes, FF 2 handles most sites fine. For that matter, so does SeaMonkey 1.1X. But the evolution of web standards will gradually marginalize them.

I mentioned Google dropping support in their Docs and Sites efforts for things like FF 2 because it can't deal with the newer stuff they are using. I use both, so a browser that works with them is a requirement, and FF 3.6 is installed in Puppy in consequence.
If your main goal for your old machine is pushing it to the limit, then you will love kmandlas blog- he is mostly an arch linux guy though. Nevertheless, very inspiring.
Linux is Linux. Arch vs Puppy doesn't really matter, especially in the case of CLI apps. I bookmarked his blog for future reference.
I completely agree that an old machine has it's limits somewhere, but when I show people PULP running on my Pentium II, I realize that the limits are not where most people think they are. :D We Puppy Linux users all know that for sure.
Oh, yes. :)

But there will be limits, regardless. When I point folks at Puppy or Linux in general, I try to manage expectations. I ask what they want to do with it, and let them know what they can't do as well as what they can. Mostly, I emphasize that it's not Windows, much of what they can do they'll do differently, and a learning curve will be present.
Christian
______
Dennis

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charlie6
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Location: Saint-Gérard / Walloon part of Belgium

#84 Post by charlie6 »

Hi zenfunk,
many thanks for pulp
on pulp03 Galculator num pad keys 2 4 6 8 are inactive in view / paper mode
when booting in each test from live-cd and
using a belgian azerty keyboard with keyboard set on:
test 1: qwerty us [1st choice in setup keyboard choice];
test 2: azerty be-latin [3rd choice in setup keyboard choice];
using 2 4 6 8 from alpha-numeric keyboard works.

I already tested this on turbopup v0.1 also featured with galculator 1.3.1: works OK.
I also got the same behaviour on the french translated Toutou4.1.2 [from Puppy4.1.2] and Toutou4.3.1 [from puppy 4.3.1] also with galculator 1.3.1.

Any idea to fix this?
thanks in advance for any answer
cheers, charlie

nooby
Posts: 10369
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Location: SwedenEurope

#85 Post by nooby »

Mine goes into kernel panic after doing a pupsave file with it and the surprise is that another puppy goes into kernel panic too as a result?

Dpup

while NOP survives them both. So not sure what I did wrong.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

zenfunk
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed 18 Mar 2009, 07:28

#86 Post by zenfunk »

Hi zenfunk,
many thanks for pulp
on pulp03 Galculator num pad keys 2 4 6 8 are inactive in view / paper mode
when booting in each test from live-cd and
No idea at all. I didn' even touch galculator. I left it like it was in Puppy 4.1.2 barebones, of which PULP is derived from.
Mine goes into kernel panic after doing a pupsave file with it and the surprise is that another puppy goes into kernel panic too as a result?
WOW, does this really mean that other puppies don't boot as well with their pupsave files (I dont think using the pupsave file from PULP on dpup is a good idea- but then I don't think anyone would attempt anything like that..;))?
I'm really sorry to hear that. Is it possible to boot with pfix=ram bootoption? then you could delete the PULP-savefile and start over? Otherwise I don't know why PULP should develop such a hostile behavior- it is just a remastered Puppy 4.1.2 barebones...
:cry:

Hope yu will get PULP and Dpup going again- Christian

zenfunk
Posts: 220
Joined: Wed 18 Mar 2009, 07:28

#87 Post by zenfunk »

@ CatDude:
Thanks again for mirroring PULP.

@ DMcCunney:
Concerning spreadsheets- all I can think of for now would be GNU Oleo, but I suspect you have the same problem as elsewhere- modern file format support.
Thanks for the sue binary- I'll check it out.

@Laurent:
Hi Christian,

I was using Pulp 0.03 and I understood lately that there is now a new
release called 0.1 (I guess it means 0.10). I've seen the screenshot above in
the thread here and really I love the new
look and feel you made ! It reminds me of Milax. If you don't know about it
go there and have a look, it is also based on JWM. It may give you some more nice ideas Smile
Hey thanks for the milax link- never heard of it before. I'll give it a spin someday.
Unfortunately I can't download the ISO by now because rapidshare reports
and error: "Unfortunately right now our servers are overloaded and we have
no more download slots left for non-members. Of course you can also try again later."
so I'll have to wait before I can test it Razz
May I suggest you to place another iso link at uploading.com ? They will allow
you to earn more from the downloads and they have more bandwidth Wink
Also please could you tell us the size of ISO and MD5 ?
Since I'm now mirrored on puppylinux.asia (see post right before yours)- all should be good now. If not, please tell me.
Isosize is: 101,2 MB (106145792 Bytes)
About the file manager and this sort of things, what would you think of
XFE ? It seems to me "more practicable" than emelFM...
Hm, the old version of xfe in the repository is just too hiddeous to look at :wink: . I never tried newer versions.
I know that a two pane file manager is very hard to get used to at first sight, but probably my tutorial here:
http://flusslinie.wordpress.com/2009/06 ... ike-a-pro/
helps to smooth out the lerarning curve. After a while it feels much faster than anything else you ever tried before. IMHO it is certainly much better to use than rox (duckandrun....).
The choice of Firepup is great too. maybe we could gain more (space and
usability) by replacing the whole sound packs with only VLC and mozilla-vlc-plugin ?
... vlc 0.86 is very stable. Though I have no idea how much
weights all the multimedia packages in Pulp (including the firefox addons)
From the tests we made here the videos embedded in webpages crashed
less often when using mozilla-vlc-plugin than other plugin...
Hm, first of all Firepup is not in PULP 0.1, nor is it in 0.03. This is simply a typo in the application menu. The browser included is firefox compiled with GTK 1.2 from lamarelle.org.
About pictures, I would be interested if you could tell me how gthumb
compare to xnview on your computer ?

Thank you very much for your great work, I'm a little impatient to
put hands on the iso Razz

Best regards
Laurent
never tried gthumb on my computer, but there is gqview in PULP 0.1 now, which is much more polished, IMHO. Give it a try. Now even fullscreen works- LOL.

DMcCunney
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#88 Post by DMcCunney »

zenfunk wrote: @ DMcCunney:
Concerning spreadsheets- all I can think of for now would be GNU Oleo, but I suspect you have the same problem as elsewhere- modern file format support.
It appears to be unmaintained, and looks like focus has shifted to Gnumeric, but it's worth chewcking out. Thanks!
Thanks for the sue binary- I'll check it out.
You're welcome.
Hm, the old version of xfe in the repository is just too hiddeous to look at :wink: . I never tried newer versions.
I know that a two pane file manager is very hard to get used to at first sight,/

I have XFE 1.19.2 installed here, and don't find it "too hideous to look at". It's actually rather nice, and opens large directories and displays contents faster than Rox or Thunar.

The main quirk is that the left panel in two panel mode won't keep "Full file list" as the configured setting. It insists on opening in "Big icons" mode.

I've used dual-pane file managers extensively elsewhere, and was already aware of the advantages.
______
Dennis

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#89 Post by nooby »

Christian, I have to apology. It could most likely have been my sloppy editing of a menu.lst file.

You know that if on edit with windows Notes one time and then edit with linux basic editor next time then they treat hard end of line differently.

I remember from the DOS times that some program wanted cr lf and other lf ce or just one of them or something.

so when everything fall into 256 chars long lines with not space in between some words and I tried to make them look readable to the human eye then I could have missed something that made it boot too many lines at same time or something.

anyway I wish you luck with pulp and look bac using it when I get my skill in menu.lst better.

I don't have time to test more now need to learn more about basics in linux first.

concentrating on what my motivation leads me. :)

so blame it on me don't blame pulp.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

User avatar
Colonel Panic
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#90 Post by Colonel Panic »

Having read this thread, PULP 0.1 will be my next puppy (sorry ttuuxxx). It looks like a winner even on old computers like mine.

Well done zenfunk!

@Dennis; thanks for the hint about the SUE command line text editor. I'm presently trying to find good Linux command line replacements / analogues for the DOS applications I've been using, and this one looks like a good text editor (I also use Joe, which uses the WordStar command set and which I know well).

I use Vim too, it's a fantastic text editor if you're willing to take the time and trouble to learn it (it has a steep learning curve, to put it mildly). I can't say I'm an expert but I know enough to get by in it.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

DMcCunney
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#91 Post by DMcCunney »

Colonel Panic wrote:@Dennis; thanks for the hint about the SUE command line text editor. I'm presently trying to find good Linux command line replacements / analogues for the DOS applications I've been using, and this one looks like a good text editor (I also use Joe, which uses the WordStar command set and which I know well).
As I mentioned in the post where I uploaded it, it's a text editor, not a word processor, and it doesn't have the bells and whistles of some other products. But it's quick to invoke and power5ful enough for the usual chores people need to do. It's not what I'd run on a more powerful system, but the Puppy box has limited resources, and something that comes up quick and is good enough gets the nod over something that comes up slow, even if "better".
I use Vim too, it's a fantastic text editor if you/re willing to take the time and trouble to learn it (it has a steep learning curve, to put it mildly). I can't say I'm an expert but I know enough to get by in it
Vim reminds me a bit of Photoshop. I ran across a story about a design student getting depressed because he didn't know everything about Photoshiop, and his professor said "Nobody knows everything about Photoshop! You learn the parts that do the things you need to do!"

Vim is li9ke that. I've barely scratched the surface. For the most part, Vim on my machines could be vi, since most of what I do with it uses vanilla vi functions I learned dealing with Unix in the 80's. I've had no reason to dig deeper.
______
Dennis

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Colonel Panic
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#92 Post by Colonel Panic »

A problem has arisen unfortunately; I downloaded the Pulp 0.1 ISO, burnt it to disk and then ran it on one of the community centre's computers, where it works fine.

The trouble came when I tried to log out of the system and return to Windows (someone else wanted to use the computer); the BIOS wouldn't recognise the hard drive when the machine rebooted and it got into an infinite loop, trying to boot from the CD-ROM with no live CD in there.

Has anyone got any idea please about how this might have happened and how to fix it? At the moment (though the community centre tech's being very understanding about it) I hardly dare mention Linux or Puppy in the centre for fear of the guffaws I'd get.

Thanks in advance,

CP .
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

DMcCunney
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Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#93 Post by DMcCunney »

Colonel Panic wrote:Has anyone got any idea please about how this might have happened and how to fix it? At the moment (though the community centre tech's being very understanding about it) I hardly dare mention Linux or Puppy in the centre for fear of the guffaws I'd get.
This sounds like an incomplete installation of some sort. I can't see how running Puppy from a live CD should do this.

Did this persist after a power cycle?
______
Dennis

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Colonel Panic
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#94 Post by Colonel Panic »

DMcCunney wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Has anyone got any idea please about how this might have happened and how to fix it? At the moment (though the community centre tech's being very understanding about it) I hardly dare mention Linux or Puppy in the centre for fear of the guffaws I'd get.
This sounds like an incomplete installation of some sort. I can't see how running Puppy from a live CD should do this.

Did this persist after a power cycle?
______
Dennis
Thanks for answering, Dennis;

Yes it did. There was no installation; I took the CD out of the drive and tried to boot from the hard drive as usual, with this result.

I can't see why it might have happened either, but it did. According to our expert, a couple of pointers went missing from the Windows XP boot loader (NTLDR) and one of them linked to the hard drive. It's worrying me somewhat because I've always used Puppy on public computers on the understanding that it's completely "safe" to run it from a CD-ROM and a savefile on the hard drive, as I did in this case.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

DMcCunney
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#95 Post by DMcCunney »

Colonel Panic wrote:
DMcCunney wrote:
Colonel Panic wrote:Has anyone got any idea please about how this might have happened and how to fix it? At the moment (though the community centre tech's being very understanding about it) I hardly dare mention Linux or Puppy in the centre for fear of the guffaws I'd get.
This sounds like an incomplete installation of some sort. I can't see how running Puppy from a live CD should do this.

Did this persist after a power cycle?
Thanks for answering, Dennis;

Yes it did. There was no installation; I took the CD out of the drive and tried to boot from the hard drive as usual, with this result.

I can't see why it might have happened either, but it did. According to our expert, a couple of pointers went missing from the Windows XP boot loader (NTLDR) and one of them linked to the hard drive. It's worrying me somewhat because I've always used Puppy on public computers on the understanding that it's completely "safe" to run it from a CD-ROM and a savefile on the hard drive, as I did in this case.
Weird. If something trashed the Master Boot Record, I can see something like this occurring. That's not hard to fix, but is a bit tedious.

I'd be very startled if a standard Puppy CD did that. I can't say for sure about a custom Puplet. It might have been coincidence, or it might have been an improperly housebroken Puppy, making a mess where it wasn't supposed to. Give a copy of the CD to the tech at the community center, and ask him to look at it. You want a second opinion to rule out Puppy being at fault.
_______
Dennis

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Colonel Panic
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#96 Post by Colonel Panic »

Thanks for replying Dennis. That's a good suggestion, but he's a bit busy at the moment so it's probably not the best time anyway.

I spoke to him earlier today and he thinks it'S most likely a trojan which corrupted the MBR and was downloaded earlier that day. I'm still mystified as I was the last person to use the machine before it went down and it was fine before; besides, the only thing I downloaded was Puppy PULP and I doubt there are any trojans on the download site.

Needless to say, my efforts to promote Linux and Puppy in particular haven taken a severe hit as a result of this, and I can't honestly blame the centre members for their scepticism.

Best,

CP .

P.S. I did manage to see some humour in the situation; I looked at my post count after i posted to report the problem and the number was 666 (the number of the beast)! :twisted:
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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sullysat
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#97 Post by sullysat »

Based on what I've read here, I would have to agree with your tech guy. Its most probable that something was downloaded before you used the machine and did its dirty deed when the system was shut down. Then, of course, it was noticed when you rebooted back to Windows after using puppy.

Ironically, if they were running Linux exclusively, the problem would probably not have happened in the first place.

Sully
Puppy Files Mirror - [b][url]http://www.wisdom-seekers.com/puppy.html[/url][/b]
Classic Puppy Page - [b][url]http://www.wisdom-seekers.com/puppy214x.html[/url][/b]

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Colonel Panic
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#98 Post by Colonel Panic »

sullysat wrote:Based on what I've read here, I would have to agree with your tech guy. Its most probable that something was downloaded before you used the machine and did its dirty deed when the system was shut down. Then, of course, it was noticed when you rebooted back to Windows after using puppy.

Ironically, if they were running Linux exclusively, the problem would probably not have happened in the first place.

Sully
I like the sound of this! Thanks for that post, maybe I'll show it to our tech guy when I'm next in the centre.

Cheers,

CP .
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

DMcCunney
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Joined: Tue 03 Feb 2009, 00:45

#99 Post by DMcCunney »

Colonel Panic wrote:
sullysat wrote:Based on what I've read here, I would have to agree with your tech guy. Its most probable that something was downloaded before you used the machine and did its dirty deed when the system was shut down. Then, of course, it was noticed when you rebooted back to Windows after using puppy.

Ironically, if they were running Linux exclusively, the problem would probably not have happened in the first place.
I like the sound of this! Thanks for that post, maybe I'll show it to our tech guy when I'm next in the centre.
Sully's thought was mine as well, and I agree with his analysis of what happened.

But don't expect the community center to shift to Linux. The folks who patronize the place are used to and expect Windows and Windows applications like MS Office. You can do most of the same things with Linux, but they will be done differently, and those differences will be a killer.

The folks who run Linux on the desktop tend to be folks who like experimenting and learning new ways to do things. The broader computer using audience does not fit that mold. They learn enough about the OS and the applications they use to do what they need to do, and that's as much as they want to learn. If the community centre tried to switch to Linux, and, say, Open Office, I'd expect to hear the howls of protest from the patrons over here across the pond.
______
Dennis

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sullysat
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Location: San Antonio, TX

#100 Post by sullysat »

DMcCunney wrote:The folks who run Linux on the desktop tend to be folks who like experimenting and learning new ways to do things. The broader computer using audience does not fit that mold. They learn enough about the OS and the applications they use to do what they need to do, and that's as much as they want to learn. If the community centre tried to switch to Linux, and, say, Open Office, I'd expect to hear the howls of protest from the patrons over here across the pond.
______
Dennis
LOLOL Too true. I see this every day in fact.

Heck, even after almost three years, making the final switch to Linux for my office was difficult for me, from an 'emotional security' standpoint. Of course, in the almost four months since moving exclusively to Linux, I haven't had a single lock up, freeze up, or reboot for no apparent reason. Life is good.

The sad thing, Colonel, is that there will be those that will say that if you hadn't had to reboot to use your Puppy OS the problem wouldn't have happened. That's not the case, but I'll bet you'll hear it anyway.

Sully
Puppy Files Mirror - [b][url]http://www.wisdom-seekers.com/puppy.html[/url][/b]
Classic Puppy Page - [b][url]http://www.wisdom-seekers.com/puppy214x.html[/url][/b]

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