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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Browsers and Internet
Firedog 1.2 - a smarter, faster, more stylish browser suite
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thelash

Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Eltham, NZ

PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr 2010, 18:21    Post subject: firedog in TEENpupmini2010
Subject description: its fast
 

I'm on dialup on an IBM T22, and installed teenpup because I liked the look of the apps available. Opera is the default browser, but I've discovered that firedog with fasterfox is significantly faster than Opera10 turbo at loading pages - at least on dialup.
I've also given ff3.6 a whirl on here, and it runs well but not as fast as firedog. Also starts with an annoying but harmless error message about a gconf file that I don't understand.
Love the layout of firedog, and have enjoyed setting up the toolbars etc to suit my needs.
Thanks very much!
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr 2010, 00:23    Post subject: Re: Firedog  

sc0ttman wrote:
Frank Cox wrote:
I re-imported the HTML file . I have the drop down list but not the add ons or the links in the address bar.

The dropdown list of bookmarks in the location bar (address bar) is provided by the addon 'LocationBar2 '.. You can get it here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4014

The toolbar (with all the other addons) is controlled by files other than the bookmarks html files. You will need to install these manually or edit the .js and .css files in the /chrome folders..

Installing them manually is the easy way, I think..

In short, importing the Firedog bookmarks will only add the bookmarks, not the addons which allow easier access to them, which need to be downloaded separately..

Hope this helps.


Thanks!
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2363
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat 03 Apr 2010, 02:10    Post subject: Re: firedog in TEENpupmini2010
Subject description: its fast
 

thelash wrote:
I'm on dialup on an IBM T22, and ... Opera is the default browser, but I've discovered that firedog with fasterfox is significantly faster ... at least on dialup.
I've also given ff3.6 a whirl on here, and it runs well but not as fast as firedog...
Love the layout of firedog, and have enjoyed setting up the toolbars etc to suit my needs.
Thanks very much!


Glad you like it, it seems to be popular on dialup...

And you're welcome Frank, hope this helped!

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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Sat 17 Apr 2010, 08:58    Post subject: Firedog is the cat's meow  

Hi Scott:

I had all sorts of problems so I switched back to FireDog. It is significantly faster and the only problem I have is the annoying message on Google Docs that they soon will no longer support it.

I will take my chances and stay with FireDog until I am forced to change.
If I ever have to I will cut off updating as Firefox subscribes to the Peter Principle. They can't leave well enough alone.

Thanks again!
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Sat 17 Apr 2010, 10:03    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

Frank Cox wrote:
I had all sorts of problems so I switched back to FireDog. It is significantly faster and the only problem I have is the annoying message on Google Docs that they soon will no longer support it.

It depends on what support you need. They are specifically dropping support for older browsers in Google Sites and Google Docs, because those products use newer web technologies not supported in Firefox 2.X. (They are dropping support for their own Chrome 3.0 as well.) FF2 is still supported in GMail (and they refactored the GMail code base to make IE 6 a fully supported browser. I don't want to think what that took to accomplish.)

Quote:
I will take my chances and stay with FireDog until I am forced to change.
If I ever have to I will cut off updating as Firefox subscribes to the Peter Principle. They can't leave well enough alone.

Define "well enough".

Firefox attempts to be standards compliant. Current emerging web standards include HTML5 and CSS3. Do you recommend FF stop in its tracks and not try to support them?

Current FF development includes making plugins asynchronous in their own process, so if you are viewing something like Flash or a Java applet and the plugin crashes, it doesn't crash the browser. (This just came out of beta and is in FF 3.6.4.)

The fundamental issue you are dealing with is that emerging technologies are outgrowing older hardware. My Puppy box has a <1ghz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a slow HD. I normally use a static build of SeaMonkey 1.1.19 when I browse from it for performance reasons. FF 3.6 runs, but it's slow to invoke and sluggish when up. There's a fair amount of stuff I just don't try to do from the Puppy box (like watch YouTube video) because it simply doesn't have the power for the task. I'm constrained by hardware. But I knew that going in, and don't gripe about it. I don't expect everything else to slow to a crawl because the box I run Puppy on can't keep up.
______
Dennis
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Sat 17 Apr 2010, 17:18    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

DMcCunney wrote:
Define "well enough".
[quote="DMcCunney"]
DMcCunney wrote:
ney"]They get the browser working well and then update it until it starts running slow crashing.
Firefox attempts to be standards compliant. Current emerging web standards include HTML5 and CSS3. Do you recommend FF stop in its tracks and not try to support them?[/quote

No but how hard would it be to have a version for older browsers? The difference in speed in FireDog and FireFox on dialup is huge!

I understand you can't have all the bells and whistles with the older browsers but there are places in America that may never get broadband. I can live without the bells.

DennisCurrent FF development includes making plugins asynchronous in their own process, so if you are viewing something like Flash or a Java applet and the plugin crashes, it doesn't crash the browser. (This just came out of beta and is in FF 3.6.4.)

The fundamental issue you are dealing with is that emerging technologies are outgrowing older hardware. My Puppy box has a <1ghz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a slow HD. I normally use a static build of SeaMonkey 1.1.19 when I browse from it for performance reasons. FF 3.6 runs, but it's slow to invoke and sluggish when up. There's a fair amount of stuff I just don't try to do from the Puppy box (like watch YouTube video) because it simply doesn't have the power for the task. I'm constrained by hardware. But I knew that going in, and don't gripe about it. I don't expect everything else to slow to a crawl because the box I run Puppy on can't keep up.
______


I can run windows or Ubuntu on my 3 gb processor with 2 gigs of ram and still have the same problem, I live in the sticks and Satellite is a jopke , to get a decent speed it is 200.00 a month and you still can't use it for voip..

.

Do you have stock in Mozilla? :}
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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Sat 17 Apr 2010, 18:10    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

Frank Cox wrote:
DMcCunney wrote:
Define "well enough".
Quote:
Quote:
They get the browser working well and then update it until it starts running slow crashing.
Firefox attempts to be standards compliant. Current emerging web standards include HTML5 and CSS3. Do you recommend FF stop in its tracks and not try to support them?
No but how hard would it be to have a version for older browsers? The difference in speed in FireDog and FireFox on dialup is huge!

How hard? Very, which is why they don't.

I was startled when they re-engineered GMail to be fully supported in IE 6. That's probably the least standards complaint browser in common use, and web developers tear their hair trying to support it and say fervent prayers every night that it will die horribly, soon. The only reason I can see them undertaking the effort is simply that there are an awful lot of IE 6 installations still out there, despite Microsoft's best efforts to replace it. (For example, large parts of Korea still use IE 6, because businesses that deployed it wrote Active-X controls specific to it, and prefer to stand pat rather than undertake the effort and expense of rewriting their software. So Koreans who want to do things like online banking are stuck with IE6.)

I can only imagine what was required to do it, and shudder thinking about it.

Quote:
I understand you can't have all the bells and whistles with the older browsers but there are places in America that may never get broadband. I can live without the bells.

You'll have to live without more than that.

What you are asking for is one or both of two things:

1) For Google re-engineer it's code base to have two separate branches in things like Docs and Sites: one branch using newer technologies like HTML5, CCS3, and newer versions of JavaScript to implement the things they are trying to add, and a second branch sticking to code usable by older browsers that will attempt to do the same things. The latter may not be possible, and would be a nightmare to keep in sync and feature compatible with the newer code if it was possible. Honestly, why should they even try?

I believe their thought is that the number of people they are aiming who will be unable to use the newer features because of low connection speeds or inadequate hardware will be a small enough fraction of the market that the effort can't be justified. I'm afraid they're right.

Don't use Google Docs or Sites. GMail is still supported, and you have alternatives to Docs and Sites.

2) For Mozilla to re-engineer Gecko to back port current technologies to older versions of their browser.

Once again, I doubt this is possible. I don't believe you could run FF2 on top of a current version of Gecko, and if you could, I don't think it would help. The stuff that makes it bigger and slower is in Gecko, and you would see the same issues.

Quote:
Quote:
The fundamental issue you are dealing with is that emerging technologies are outgrowing older hardware. My Puppy box has a <1ghz processor, 256MB of RAM, and a slow HD. I normally use a static build of SeaMonkey 1.1.19 when I browse from it for performance reasons. FF 3.6 runs, but it's slow to invoke and sluggish when up. There's a fair amount of stuff I just don't try to do from the Puppy box (like watch YouTube video) because it simply doesn't have the power for the task. I'm constrained by hardware. But I knew that going in, and don't gripe about it. I don't expect everything else to slow to a crawl because the box I run Puppy on can't keep up.

I can run windows or Ubuntu on my 3 gb processor with 2 gigs of ram and still have the same problem, I live in the sticks and Satellite is a joke , to get a decent speed it is 200.00 a month and you still can't use it for voip.

The fact that you are on dialup isn't Firefox's fault. Your constraint is a slow connection to the internet, and that will bite regardless of what browser you use. FF2 may perform better than FF3, but you'll still see issues.

I don't see issues on my desktop with a 1.8ghz CPU and 4GB RAM, but I have a fast broadband connection, so the stuff that bites you won't affect me.

You might want to look at a current version of Opera. Opera 10.51 features a Turbo mode, where access is via their proxy server. Data is compressed on their end before being sent to you, to increase throughput and improve performance on low speed connections. I don't think 10.51 is out for Linux yet, but it ought to be along shortly.

Quote:
Do you have stock in Mozilla? :}

Mozilla has stock? Smile

I like Mozilla, and prefer Mozilla products because I like the architecture. The ability to customize and extend the product has become an integral part of how I work.

That said, I do use other things as merited. Opera loads faster and renders faster here under Puppy than Firefox or SeaMonkey. Google Chrome is progressing too, and the 5.0 Dev branch adds a fledgling extension capability that allows me to do a few things I'm accustomed to under Mozilla. But as mentioned, some things I just don't try to do. Puppy is good but not magic, and I'm constrained by hardware on the Puppy box.
______
Dennis
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr 2010, 16:20    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

Well they finally stopped threatening to discontinue supporting Firedog and say now it is unsupported.

For what I do with it I see no difference so I have FireDog and it does everything i want it to and much faster than 3.whatever

The annoying warning is gone, I am a happy camper, for now.

thanks again Scott!

It is always easier to dismiss a minority, even a very significant one when you are not part of it.
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2363
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr 2010, 16:29    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

Frank Cox wrote:
thanks again Scott!


You're most welcome Frank.. I'm genuinely happy you like it... Very Happy

I personally never have any problems with FF2 or Firedog, despite thier not being 'supported'...

I don't need support, I need a browser that works how I like it!!

Smile

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DMcCunney

Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr 2010, 16:40    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

sc0ttman wrote:
I personally never have any problems with FF2 or Firedog, despite thier not being 'supported'...

I don't need support, I need a browser that works how I like it!!

Smile

In this case, "support" is specific to Google Docs and Google Sites, which are adopting newer web technologies FF2 can't handle. If you don't use Google Docs or Sites, you don't care, as everything else you do will probably work fine.

It will be a problem down the road, as advances in web standards start requiring browsers that simply can't run acceptably on the sort of kit Puppy tends to be used for, but for the moment, things like FireDog are good options.
______
Dennis
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Frank Cox

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Thu 22 Apr 2010, 16:44    Post subject: Re: Firedog is the cat's meow  

The docs work for me.
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toowoombalinux

Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue 04 May 2010, 09:27    Post subject:  

G'day,
Interesting side-note. I mainly use a heavily customised Puppy 3.01 and I use Firepup. Now I find, to my amazement that many Puppy 4 programmes work fine in Puppy 3. But, alas FireDog is not one of those...
But, it does very interesting things to Firepup. Firepup normally runs very fast..very fast! It now positively screams! I have never use a Browser that operates so fast! Also, the customised toolbar is very cool.
The changes FireDog has brought to Firepup is astounding.
Cheers
Martin
BTW. It may not generally work in standard Puppy 3.01 as I have linked many Firepup libraries to the mozilla and firefox directories - I also have incorporated a later version of gtk2+.

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2363
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue 04 May 2010, 13:40    Post subject:  

I really should update the main thread and state more explicitly that Firedog is NOT compatible with other Firefox or Seamonkey installs..

Having said that, you're not the first to be pleased with the results of a mixed up Fire/Pup/Dog/Fox install... Shocked

Glad you like it, anyway! Don't forget to thank ttuuxxx for FirePup Smile

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nekomaster

Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat 15 May 2010, 15:58    Post subject:  

Will there be a updated version of firedog anytime soon? Maybe one based on Firefox v3.0.15 and without a million addons? Its a pain in the butt for me to have to uninstall all the addons in firedog 1.2 and update because firedog is the only way for me to get firefox working :\
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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2363
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 20 May 2010, 11:08    Post subject:  

Quote:
Will there be a updated version of firedog anytime soon? Maybe one based on Firefox v3.0.15 and without a million addons?

Try FF3 Smile
Quote:
Its a pain in the butt for me to have to uninstall all the addons in firedog 1.2 and update because firedog is the only way for me to get firefox working :\

Which Puppy version are you using? And which Firefox pets have you tried to install? I've got Firefox 3 working in 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3

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