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Dpup: The Resurrection
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1775
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 12:52    Post subject:  Dpup: The Resurrection
Subject description: Any interest in reviving dpup?
 

Hello, fellow puppians.

About 10 minutes ago I built a dpup from Debian Squeeze, using the Lupu 5.1.2-pre package lists. Works just fine except mess in the menus, some problem with setting icons and no wallpaper. I think it's Woof-related.

dpup-001.sfs is 107 MB and the zdrv is about 6.5 MB. The whole thing is 117 MB, way smaller than an upup built with the same choice of packages. I chose not to strip binaries and some junk files were still included, it won't be hard to trim this down to 105-110 MB or so. It misses some multimedia packages (because Debian has them in a separate repo) but I don't think they can fill the "free space" till 128 MB Laughing

At the moment I'm building another dpup, this time with a slightly different choice of PET repos. I'm trying to determine what Puppy is more "compatible" with Debian Squeeze, Quirky or Lupu. I think it's a better idea to stay away from Lupu packages to avoid confusion and incompatibility problems with PET packages.

It seems very interesting, Debian is very stable and mature. A Puppy based on Debian can be wonderful. dpup is kinda dead, so I think it could be nice if a team of community members could revive it.

Debian Squeeze, largely, is compatible with Ubuntu 10.4, so packages like Quickpet can be used with a dpup. Things like the awesome control panel and wbar from dpup can be adopted too.

I have some interesting ideas that I haven't implemented in a puplet and I'd like to do some voting (if this dpup revival project kicks and screams). Two of of them are renaming the "calc" icon and making the "chat" icon start Freenode's web IRC client instead of the buggy and annoying ayttm.

Just think of it ... a community-built Puppy that doesn't compete with Puppeee, Fluppy, Lupu, Quirky or Wary. Just ... a peaceful Puppy that "just works". Not something targeted at netbooks or older hardware, just a "generic" Puppy in the spirit of 4.x.

No roles, no duties, total democracy and freedom of speech. A Puppy open to suggestions and complaints, sort of a "the people's Puppy" with a "release when ready" policy and key values of openness, freedom of speech, collaboration and high quality.

A "clean" dpup built from latest Woof with the latest Lupu package list is the start. I'm already working on that. Once we have some alpha-quality Puppy we can hunt down bugs, replace packages, polish some rough edges and add some bling.

If anyone is interested in this too, let's get this going. Just raise your hand and reply with "count me in" Smile

Cheers!

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 15:12    Post subject:  

To totally avoid stepping on toes. Just call it something other than dpup and get going. it is the puppy way. Post your works and helpers will materialise based of the taste of the pudding.
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dejan555


Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2593
Location: Montenegro

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 15:57    Post subject:  

it's not a puplet or remaster. it's new dpup woof build - can't call it different Smile Count me in!
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 16:12    Post subject:  

Well this is good news! Very Happy

I was trying to build a dpup but I only had a crappy build that succeeded from woof from about a late August , although haven't had much time the last week or so.

I'll be around too,

Cheers

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 16:15    Post subject:  

aarf wrote:
To totally avoid stepping on toes. Just call it something other than dpup and get going. it is the puppy way. Post your works and helpers will materialise based of the taste of the pudding.

gposil will be fine with it aarf, I have been in telephone contact with him as of 2 weeks ago and I was going to take over, but if Iguleder wants I think that's great.

Cheers

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5446
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 17:34    Post subject:  

If someone builds it, I've always got an empty partition for testing...... Laughing
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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1775
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 17:58    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
I was going to take over, but if Iguleder wants I think that's great.


I'm not taking over, I just think it would be nice to make some Debian-based puplet as some community project. And I'm really glad to see you here Smile

I don't like the name "dpup", because that's gposil's creation and it feels bad. There are many things I like about dpup and I think it's quite natural that some dpup fans are intereted in this idea. Maybe we can borrow some cool stuff from dpup, if gposil doesn't mind.

We tried to find some name in the IRC channel ... Zen Puppy, Sorry Puppy, Indie Puppy, Amigo Puppy and lots of other stupid names. Need to find some good name, a slogan and a logo.

I'll do my best to make a fresh ISO tommorow with all packages included, including the ones from the Debian multimedia repo. I already have a list of changes I'd like to make, I'll start a thread next to the 5.1.1 development thread and post a list of things I'd like to change. Need your opinion. I want this to be open to everyone. I don't want people to have roles and I don't want this thing to have a "coordinator". And I want it to be fun.

I'll try to upload an ISO, as I said, but you're all welcome to do so too. I'll attach the files I added to Woof and all my customizations to make sure everyone can build a tweaked version of it.

Once there is an ISO, it's testing time. I have many ideas floating in my mind and I'm sure you have your own ideas and suggestions. I want every suggestion to be discussed to decide whether it should be applied.

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3266
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep 2010, 19:05    Post subject:  

Debpup??

" gposil will be fine with it "

Miss him and hope that he's OK.

""""""""""
Iguleder.

Never feel bad about innovation.

I wish you every success.
I'm sure that you will have plenty of support.

Chris.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7547
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 01:57    Post subject:  

iguleder

Count me in.. Very Happy

Like I said, not a great deal of time at the moment but I'll be around.. and as far as naming goes, call it what you like.

If you are basing on woof then it would be great if you could follow a similar philosophy as playdayz and track woof development. This not only helps dpup (or whatever you want to call it Wink ) but woof too. I'm sure Barry will welcome the initiative. Official or Puplet matters little at all, it's still Puppy Wink .

There are packaging tools in place with your 'pdebthing' and my 'alien2puppy' for knocking out packages from .debs.

Also, as long as we have a working devx I'm sure Dejan and myself will get busy compiling packages, and plenty of other interest will be aroused.

Could be a nice base for your Trinity work too.

question 1.. where's the iso??? Very Happy (warts and all is ok Wink )

question 2.. which kernel? I'm guessing a Squeeze build wants at least 2.6.33.x... and currently gcc is at 4.4.4 in Squeeze, so a recompile will be necessary. What about a retro... Lenny based.. 2.6.27.47? (I think that's that one with all the modem drivers..BK compiled for Wary.. [edit; thanks James C Wink ]).

question 3.. Anything special/different/cutting edge you have in mind?

Very Happy

Cheers

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Last edited by 01micko on Mon 13 Sep 2010, 02:26; edited 2 times in total
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 02:14    Post subject:  

Quote:
I want this to be open to everyone. I don't want people to have roles and I don't want this thing to have a "coordinator". And I want it to be fun.


Sounds good already.
Quite happy to use this page as a base for Dpup++
Deb2pup, Dogmeet or whatever name emerges
. . . or just keep dpup as suggested

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Dpup

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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5446
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 02:19    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:

question 2.. which kernel? I'm guessing a Squeeze build wants at least 2.6.33.x... and currently gcc is at 4.4.4 in Squeeze, so a recompile will be necessary. What about a retro... Lenny based.. 2.6.47.48? (I think that's that one with all the modem drivers..BK compiled for Wary).


The retro Wary kernel is 2.6.27.47.Works really well on older machines....like my old test P3. Smile
Also, Debian Squeeze is in a freeze at I believe 2.6.32.I haven't booted my Lenny install in a while so I don't recall the exact kernel but its around 2.6.26 somewhere.
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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10730
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 02:36    Post subject:  

Iguleder Dpup wasn't gposil's creation, actually tronkel was the first to build dpup, and Barry named it Dpup, I was the second to build and release Dpup, gposil was the third to release Dpup, Its just that he stuck to it longer, But once again it was Barry who named it, so you don't have to feel bad about it, Just give it a different version number.
ttuuxxx

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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1775
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 04:10    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
question 1.. where's the iso??? Very Happy (warts and all is ok Wink )


Yesterday I downloaded all packages, atm I'm downloading a fresh Woof and trying to fix it to recognize the Debian Multimedia repo. Then, I'll make an ISO, should take no longer than 2-3 hours.

01micko wrote:

question 2.. which kernel? I'm guessing a Squeeze build wants at least 2.6.33.x... and currently gcc is at 4.4.4 in Squeeze, so a recompile will be necessary. What about a retro... Lenny based.. 2.6.27.47? (I think that's that one with all the modem drivers..BK compiled for Wary.. [edit; thanks James C Wink ]).


At the moment I chose Lupu's kernel, that's a safe choice. I'll try some retro kernel too, I think the 2.6.30.5 Barry recompiled could be a good choice. I'll also try 2.6.27.47 if I find some spare time.

01micko wrote:

question 3.. Anything special/different/cutting edge you have in mind?


Got a list. Stay tuned Smile

Once I upload the ISO, I'll open a thread and put all my ideas there and we'll do some voting. Don't be afraid to show some creativity, we need your brainz here Razz

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10730
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 04:28    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
iguleder

Count me in.. Very Happy

question 2.. which kernel? I'm guessing a Squeeze build wants at least 2.6.33.x... and currently gcc is at 4.4.4 in Squeeze, so a recompile will be necessary.

Very Happy

Cheers


I've compiled gcc in the past, its a bit tricky and takes a lot of space.
Here's Barry's notes on compiling
Quote:

gcc 4.3.4 recompiled
An old problem has come back. Previously when I compiled in T2, such as the base packages for Puppy 4.0, there was a problem with the gcc compiler. When using it in an alpha of Puppy 4.0, some packages would not compile, with error "__sync_fetch_and_add_4 undefined". I reported this, and the solution, in my news archive (do a search for "gcc bug fixed"):

http://www.puppylinux.com/news/news400a3-400a5.htm

With the recent T2 compile I made some changes that I thought would have fixed this problem, but not so. It has to do with the cross-compile environment that T2 runs in. So, here we go again...

These are patches I got out of T2, and the configure parameters are based on information in var/adm/logs/5-gcc.log in the T2 build:

# patch -p1 < ../fixincl.patch
# patch -p1 < ../fixincl2.patch
# patch -p1 < ../libstdcpp-with-tag-cc.patch
# patch -p1 < ../no-install-libiberty.patch
# patch -p1 < ../stdc++-include_next.patch

# mkdir objdir
# cd objdir
# ../configure --prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/bin --sbindir=/usr/sbin --libdir=/usr/lib --datadir=/usr/share --includedir=/usr/include --infodir=/usr/info --mandir=/usr/man --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --disable-debug --without-libpam --without-pam --disable-libpam --disable-pam --build=i486-t2-linux-gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-checking --disable-bootstrap --disable-libstdcxx-pch --disable-multilib --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-threads=posix --disable-libgcj --enable-languages=c,c++,fortran --enable-shared

...it's compiling right now. Gonna take awhile, it's a big package.

Note, this time I have enabled the Fortran compiler, which is missing from the Puppy 4.x series.

This is delaying the upload of the first pre-alpha of Quirky for a couple more days. I found bugs with Abiword 2.8.1, so I wanted to try compiling Abiword from SVN, and I also recompiled the Enchant package or rather tried to -- I hit that "__sync_fetch_and_add_4" bug.

http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=01236

ttuuxxx

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Iguleder


Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1775
Location: Israel, somewhere in the beautiful desert

PostPosted: Mon 13 Sep 2010, 04:36    Post subject:  

I did that too but I don't understand why a new kernel is needed. Squeeze (as all Debian releases) is built with 2.6.18 as the minimum kernel and uses 2.6.32.x.

About GCC, same story, why? I know how to do this and I did this many times. Takes lots of space and could be problematic.

EDIT: yay, finally understood how to do it properly - I added the Debian Multimedia repo to Woof. Now multimedia packages should be available. I'll send this to Barry.

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