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PupsaveConfig-2.2.5
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov 2010, 19:37    Post subject:  

don570, alphanumeric is a-z,0-9.
For simplicity, a user should not be allowed to use special/accented characters.

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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov 2010, 19:56    Post subject: reply  

Quote:
For simplicity, a user should not be allowed to use special/accented characters.


With the current Barry Kauler method of inputing characters for a password, accented characters can be used . If you test this like I recently did,
Barry uses the console mode totally, for forming the password and
then inputing the password at bootup. That's a sneaky way of doing it.
Many users are taping on their keyboard thinking that they are using
accented characters, not knowing that in the console mode only ascii characters
can be used. Check it out for yourself and you will see.

[/code]
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Béèm


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 11782
Location: Brussels IBM Thinkpad R40, 256MB, 20GB, WiFi ipw2100. Frugal Lin'N'Win

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 09:23    Post subject:  

I believe you as I don't use encrypted save files and it is sneaky indeed.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 21:25    Post subject: mistake when azerty keyboard user in Germany  

In my previous proposal that I submitted yesterday, I made a dumb
mistake. I forgot the situation when an Azerty keyboard user is traveling
to Germany (not an infrequent occurrence)

...but I think I have a good solution to this problem

I propose to restrict the Azerty Keyboard user to entering the following
characters when he makes his password

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy 0123456789

In other words, don't allow Azerty keyboard user to use z in his password

The French don't use that character much anyway.

What my suggestion does is allow a simple interface to make the 'Alternate Password' for the Azerty keyboard user.

I showed that in my design that I submitted yesterday. I hope
you saw that design. Hopefully it wasn't too complex.

The Azerty keyboard user could travel abroad and
only need to know two passwords, his own and an alternate one.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 21:35    Post subject: Asian keyboard users  

I've been thinking about the situation where the user
doesn't have QWERTY or AZERTY characters painted on his
keys. I think this is common in parts of Asia and even Russia.

For people who live in a country that doesn't
support QWERTY or AZERTY keyboards I think
that PupsaveconfigGUI could still be used effectively.

In chinese or Russian the interface would be something like this....



Code:
My password is ____________ (fill in with a simple word)

Click  'Build'

While traveling abroad you may be required to use your Puppy
on a foreign computer, for instance when booting from a USB stick
on somebody else's computer.
Please note the following four passwords for use while traveling abroad

My normal password is XXXXXXXXXXXX
My password in German speaking countries is XXXXXXXXXXXX
My password in french speaking countries is  XXXXXXXXXXXX
My password in the rest of world is XXXXXXXXXXXX



It doesn't seem too outrageously complex and most people would catch on.


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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 22:54    Post subject: Re: Asian keyboard users  

don570 wrote:
I've been thinking about the situation where the user
doesn't have QWERTY or AZERTY characters painted on his
keys. I think this is common in parts of Asia and even Russia.

Wow! I have never had such an idea.
How about simply we do not support non-latain keyboards?
I have no idea how to convert 'йцукен' to 'qwerty' or 'Иван' to 'Bdfy'.

Last edited by shinobar on Thu 11 Nov 2010, 23:02; edited 1 time in total
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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 23:01    Post subject:
Subject description: Save file type
 

Consider, having the script default to 2fs only if the frugal installation is on an ext2 partition. If it's on an ext3 or ext4 partition, it should default to 3fs.

Thanks,
Jim
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 23:12    Post subject: Save file type
Subject description: Save file type
 

Jim1911 wrote:
Consider, having the script default to 2fs only if the frugal installation is on an ext2 partition. If it's on an ext3 or ext4 partition, it should default to 3fs.

Thanks jim for the notice.
But I think the filesystem of the partition and that of the pupsave is independent.
Like the pupsave.2fs or pupsave.3fs can be on any kind of partition from ntfs/vat/ext2/ext3/ext4.
The only limitation is encrypted save-file must use ext2.

Quote:
FILE TYPE
Previously, Puppy has only used 'ext2', now there is a choice.
Regarding power-failure, note that Puppy will do a f.s. check at next boot so ext2 can recover,
however journalled filesystems can recover even without a f.s. check.
If in doubt, just press ENTER to choose 'ext2', otherwise TAB down then ENTER...
ext2: Maximum storage space, encrypted save-file must use ext2.
ext3: Journalled f.s., safest if power failure etc.


By the way, do you think pupsave.3fs is safer than pupsave.2fs?

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Jim1911

Joined: 19 May 2008
Posts: 2457
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Thu 11 Nov 2010, 23:35    Post subject: Re: Save file type
Subject description: Save file type
 

shinobar wrote:
By the way, do you think pupsave.3fs is safer than pupsave.2fs?
Definitely, I've had numerous crashes with 2fs save files, now there are no ext2 partitions on my computers, even in a save file. In any event, user needs to be able to select 3fs. Unfortunately, puppy has been unable to reliably create 4fs save files, so that option was eliminated by Barry from the text selection.
Cheers,
Jim
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 12 Nov 2010, 08:07    Post subject:  

Attached 1st brief help text for pupsaveconfig.
It is simple text file, you can read after extracting.
If you have the mock up sample of pupsaveconfig, place it as /usr/share/doc/help/C/pupsaveconfig.txt.

As for the password, there describes:
Quote:
PASSWORD
Be CAUTION the characters which Puppy recognize at boot stage can be different from those you are typing now:
At the boot stage, you will be asked the password. Puppy always assumes your keyboard is 'us-English' at boot unless 'pkeys' option specified.
See your keyboard. If the keytops at the row bellow '123456' shows 'Q'-'W'-'E'-'R'-'T'-'Y' from left to right, the alphanumeric characters maybe safe.
But the special characters like '-', '+' can be different positions. And note that the case is sensitive, 'a' and 'A' is not the same.
Be carefull if your Puppy is on the removable devices and you carry it to another PC.

If your keytops shows 'QWERTZ', 'AZERTY' or other than 'QUERTY', you have more problem.
If your keytops shows 'QWERTZ', 'z' and 'y' is swapped at the boot stage.
If your keytops shows 'AZERTY', 'a' and 'q', 'w' and 'z' swapped. moreover the numbers should lower case at the boot stage.
For example, if you type 'Jaque' here with 'AZERTY' key layout, you must type as the password at the boot stage 'Jqaue'!
Safest is to use only alphabet but avoid next characters 'a','q','w','y','z'. Never use non-english characters like 'ç', nor accented characters like 'é'.
If you are using non-latin keyboards, there may be no hope as for the password.

Again, unless you have a good reason to use encryption, it is recommended to choose 'NORMAL'

Like to here your suggestion.
pupsaveconfig-20101112.txt.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  pupsaveconfig-20101112.txt.gz 
Filesize  2.98 KB 
Downloaded  519 Time(s) 

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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 13 Nov 2010, 16:58    Post subject: warning message  

I've come to the conclusion that the simplest way to
handle password encryption is just a simple warning
combined with a recommendation of a new password.

For example let's suppose that a French user has chosen
the password France33

He would be warned with the following message

Code:
The password you have chosen cannot be used
to boot up your Puppy Linux installation on a keyboard
designed for Germans or Americans.  Therefore a simpler
password  with less characters is recommended but
it is not a necessity.   We suggest that you change your
password from  France33   to just  Frnce.

This simpler password will allow you to boot up Puppy
Linux using other keyboard designs that are common
around the world.   What do you want to do ?

Then finish off with some button choices.

Of course I am assuming that the user was quizzed
previously about what kind of keyboard that he is currently
using and has already gone through a procedure of inputing a
password from a limited set of characters i.e. no y and z allowed.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 15 Nov 2010, 18:43    Post subject: window for password users  

If a user wants a password you will probably need to
ask what type of keyboard he is currently using,
Here's a design
http://www.datafilehost.com/download-18020fd3.html

For a user that doesn't have a compatible keyboard
(such as a Russian cyrillic keyboard), they can be
told to use the legacy method of inputing a password.
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noryb009

Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 540

PostPosted: Tue 16 Nov 2010, 22:35    Post subject:  

don570: that might work, but in a different way. What if: When a user logs in using their password, but it doesn't work, it adds to the error something like "or type blah if you have a different keyboard then normal" or something. When the user types blah, it asks what type of keyboard they are using, and tries to convert the password somehow.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov 2010, 13:56    Post subject: inputing password at bootup  

To noryb009

I believe that Shinobar will continue to use Barry Kauler's code
for inputing a password at bootup time.

Barry simply asks for the password over and over until you type
in the right one . The user is in the console mode so everything
must be in ASCII characters. But this is not explained to
the user at bootup time which is confusing people with
no technical training. In fact while you type in your password
the keystrokes aren't shown on your screen ( which is why I call
Barry 'sneaky'). I think Barrry did this deliberately.

Barry does give an explanation albeit too brief and only in English
when the user is composing his password.

Barry's procedure is totally in English so the big benefit
of PupsaveconfigGUI is that it can be localized to a huge
number of languages. It will be a nice feature for Puppy linux
to attract users in Asia, Africa...

An extra feature that PupsaveconfigGUI could have is the tranposing of
passwords from one keyboard type to another, but this adds complexity
to a program that needs to be simple and few Puppy users even use
a password from what I read on the forum. I still don't use a password
myself even though it only slows down the booting of the computer
a couple of seconds.
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don570


Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 3379
Location: Ontario

PostPosted: Tue 23 Nov 2010, 17:47    Post subject: correction  

I didn't draw the QWERTZ keyboard properly
Here's the proper diagram
http://www.datafilehost.com/download-f04464c2.html

I drew the M key in the wrong spot.

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