I usually install KDE contrib for Slackware manually in Puppy, gives me better control over what goes in and seems to work better for me than the .sfs I've tried. I add menu items as needed from Puppy with KDE's menu editor. With XDG in Puppy 1.0.9, of course, KDE saw and installed all of the program menu items in triplicate entries, in KDE menus this was Settings, System, Utilities, all had the same entries. No problem, just edit out the dupes, add icons and arrange as you want. As it turns out, this is not the hot ticket. I was not thinking correctly as to the crosstalk, going the other way, down into poor Joe window maker, it went crazy in the menus on it. KDE menu editor became dominate. Tried to fix Joe, but too much damage, had to finally remove XDG, and put a new .jwmrc file from Puppy2 in /root, made minor adjustments and all was back to normal. XDG is a great idea, but how do you control the interplay between the two window managers, so everything doesn't go haywire?
Good Luck, Kal
Problems with XDG in Puppy 1.0.9
I lost you in the middle of the post but I'll try to clarify the issue based on what I understood.
The applications are first categorized and are later organized on a menu based on rules.
The idea is that with XDG you don't need to add those menu entries manually. They just 'appear' in the menu. So in theory it's better than what you were doing.
KDE defines it's own menu structure. I think it's in the 'Applications.menu' file. Second. Usually distro packagers reorganize the default KDE menu structure to suit their needs or preferences.
If you send me the KDE menu file you were using I can tell you exactly how to fix it.
To round up:
In XDG applications have categories assigned in the .desktop files. e.g.
Abiword is categorized as "Office;WordProcessor;TextEditor'
The Ethernet wizard: "System;Settings;HardwareSettings;Network"
mtPaint : Graphics;2DGraphics
etc...
Then in the menu file we define what categories of applications go where. e.g.
For the text editor menu I defined that I wanted the text editors that are not word processors:
<Category>TextEditor</Category>
<Not>
<Category>WordProcessor</Category>
</Not>
The menu structure files for Puppy have a "puppy-" prefix so they are only used by the menu generators we created for JWM, IceWM, Fvwm, WIndowMaker, etc.
As I said before, the menu structure definition you got from the slackware package defines different rules for what applications to put under what submenus.
To complicate matters a little bit more, KDE uses both XDG and a legacy menu structure based on a directory tree organization. It uses BOTH at the same time if that's defined in the menu file.
In XDG structure and content are independent of each other.I add menu items as needed from Puppy with KDE's menu editor.
The applications are first categorized and are later organized on a menu based on rules.
The idea is that with XDG you don't need to add those menu entries manually. They just 'appear' in the menu. So in theory it's better than what you were doing.
KDE Doesn't 'see and install the programs'. The programs are already installed. They show organized according to a menu structure defined in a menu file and based on the categories defined for the applications.KDE saw and installed all of the program menu items in triplicate entries,
Yes, problem. As I explained before, the way to rearange is not by moving the applications one by one, but by defining rules in the menu file.No problem, just edit out the dupes, add icons and arrange as you want.
I don't understand how changing the KDE menu would have changed the menu defined for JWM (JoeWindowManager). This is quite unusual.down into poor Joe window maker, it went crazy in the menus on it
How did you try to 'fix it'?Tried to fix Joe, but too much damage, had to finally remove XDG, and put a new .jwmrc file from Puppy2 in /root, made minor adjustments and all was back to normal.
There is no interplay. Maybe that confusion is what caused all your grief.XDG is a great idea, but how do you control the interplay between the two window managers, so everything doesn't go haywire?
KDE defines it's own menu structure. I think it's in the 'Applications.menu' file. Second. Usually distro packagers reorganize the default KDE menu structure to suit their needs or preferences.
If you send me the KDE menu file you were using I can tell you exactly how to fix it.
To round up:
In XDG applications have categories assigned in the .desktop files. e.g.
Abiword is categorized as "Office;WordProcessor;TextEditor'
The Ethernet wizard: "System;Settings;HardwareSettings;Network"
mtPaint : Graphics;2DGraphics
etc...
Then in the menu file we define what categories of applications go where. e.g.
For the text editor menu I defined that I wanted the text editors that are not word processors:
<Category>TextEditor</Category>
<Not>
<Category>WordProcessor</Category>
</Not>
The menu structure files for Puppy have a "puppy-" prefix so they are only used by the menu generators we created for JWM, IceWM, Fvwm, WIndowMaker, etc.
As I said before, the menu structure definition you got from the slackware package defines different rules for what applications to put under what submenus.
To complicate matters a little bit more, KDE uses both XDG and a legacy menu structure based on a directory tree organization. It uses BOTH at the same time if that's defined in the menu file.
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Nathan F
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The fact that there was any interplay at all does not bode well IMHO. The KDE menu editor is supposed to create basically a log of differences, rather than editing the .desktop or .menu files themselves. This should not have ANY effect on another WM, yet it did. This is waht I call a bug, and I'd venture to guess that KDE is the culprit based on what you have described.
Nathan
Nathan
Bring on the locusts ...
I still think that there was no interplay.
The only 'point of contact' are the .desktop files.
Anyway, I'm really curious about this.
Kal
I'll appreciate if you point me to the package (the link to the download package/site) that you installed along with the instructions you followed to install it.
I want to test with it to find out what happened.
My guess is that the Applications.menu included in that package is a modified version of the original KDE menu. (I usually guess something just to see how far I was once I find what the problem is
)
The only 'point of contact' are the .desktop files.
Anyway, I'm really curious about this.
Kal
I'll appreciate if you point me to the package (the link to the download package/site) that you installed along with the instructions you followed to install it.
I want to test with it to find out what happened.
My guess is that the Applications.menu included in that package is a modified version of the original KDE menu. (I usually guess something just to see how far I was once I find what the problem is
)[url]http://rarsa.blogspot.com[/url] Covering my eclectic thoughts
[url]http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48[/url] Covering my Linux How-to
[url]http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48[/url] Covering my Linux How-to
First, thanks very much for your reply, yes. you did get lost, I am just an end user as they say. I forgot to say this is a hard drive install #2. When I said, program menu items, I meant menu entries for the programs, I know KDE is not installing the programs and that there already in Puppy (my goof in terminology, sorry).
I didn't have to place any new entries into the KDE menus, they were abundant and all there. Defining rules in the menu file is a little over an end user's head, and besides the entries were in the menu at the start, after installing KDE. I could follow a step by step how to. The main problem is what happened to Joe. I like keeping Joe in working order.
I did study the menu structure and got some understanding of it on a low level. I could see the amount of work you did in just the .desktop area in /usr/share/applications and the building of the layers. I was able to remove XDG and install the old menu system with no ill effects. That stopped KDE's bad behavior in Joe Window Manager and it went right back to normal. With removing XDG, no interplay.
In trying a repair of Joe's menu, the structure was mostly all right, but a few entries messed up. Ballooning of the menu entries icons was first. By using KDE menu editor. Replaced all icons with Puppy's icons for one submenu in Kde menus, that were Puppy programs. This restored in Joe, the sizes in one submenu, to prove the point. I restored the names with the menu editor that I had rearranged. On one entry that would not fix. I removed the .desktop file for it, into the downloads folder in /root/, to hide, rebooted and the entry stayed. Compared .desktop files with ones off the live CD, could see no changes. I believed as you do, that there would be no interplay or I would have kep 1.0.8. The confusion came from the inter reaction. Either than losing XDG for Joe, everything seems to work fine. Info as requested to follow soon. Good Luck, Kal
I didn't have to place any new entries into the KDE menus, they were abundant and all there. Defining rules in the menu file is a little over an end user's head, and besides the entries were in the menu at the start, after installing KDE. I could follow a step by step how to. The main problem is what happened to Joe. I like keeping Joe in working order.
I did study the menu structure and got some understanding of it on a low level. I could see the amount of work you did in just the .desktop area in /usr/share/applications and the building of the layers. I was able to remove XDG and install the old menu system with no ill effects. That stopped KDE's bad behavior in Joe Window Manager and it went right back to normal. With removing XDG, no interplay.
In trying a repair of Joe's menu, the structure was mostly all right, but a few entries messed up. Ballooning of the menu entries icons was first. By using KDE menu editor. Replaced all icons with Puppy's icons for one submenu in Kde menus, that were Puppy programs. This restored in Joe, the sizes in one submenu, to prove the point. I restored the names with the menu editor that I had rearranged. On one entry that would not fix. I removed the .desktop file for it, into the downloads folder in /root/, to hide, rebooted and the entry stayed. Compared .desktop files with ones off the live CD, could see no changes. I believed as you do, that there would be no interplay or I would have kep 1.0.8. The confusion came from the inter reaction. Either than losing XDG for Joe, everything seems to work fine. Info as requested to follow soon. Good Luck, Kal
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Pending the testing I want to do I think that I know what went wrong.
I left the <LegacyDir> tag pointing to the KDE location. I think that's what's causing the problem.
So if I'm correct this time I'll eat my words. There was interplay
I'll try to test tonight.
I left the <LegacyDir> tag pointing to the KDE location. I think that's what's causing the problem.
So if I'm correct this time I'll eat my words. There was interplay
I'll try to test tonight.
[url]http://rarsa.blogspot.com[/url] Covering my eclectic thoughts
[url]http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48[/url] Covering my Linux How-to
[url]http://www.kwlug.org/blog/48[/url] Covering my Linux How-to
info
I use modified version of bombayrockers early post, titled: How i got kde in puppy, dated 18 Oct 2005 in Cutting edge.
It works well for me and no extras. Than I install just what is needed by me, from slackware site. Takes me about 25 minute, but of course I've done it.
http://download.kde.org/download.php?ur ... ware/10.2/
arts-1.5.2-i486-1.tgz
kdebase-3.5.2-i486-1.tgz
kdelibs-3.5.2-i486-1.tgz
MU's site, missing libraries
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/
Under libraries get
QT-3.3.4.pup
libidn.so.11.5.10.pup
libvorbisenc.so.2.pup
Under Multimedia get
libesd.so.0.2.36.pup
pupget
xorg_opengl-6.8.1
bombayrockers did each item at a time, I do the first 3, all at once by untarring to the same location.
You make two simlink to each lib that requires it in /opt/kde/lib
example libartscbackend.so.0.0.0
1st link is libartscbackend.so.0
2nd link is libartscbackend.so
If you use a hard drive install, opt can go under /. The /opt/kde/bin folder must be copied to /usr/bin. The /opt/kde/lib folder can stay put.
If you use any other follow bombay. On a live or install #1 you have to enlarge the pupxxx. If you get lost on bombay"s instructions just ask, I will be checking this site.
It works well for me and no extras. Than I install just what is needed by me, from slackware site. Takes me about 25 minute, but of course I've done it.
http://download.kde.org/download.php?ur ... ware/10.2/
arts-1.5.2-i486-1.tgz
kdebase-3.5.2-i486-1.tgz
kdelibs-3.5.2-i486-1.tgz
MU's site, missing libraries
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/
Under libraries get
QT-3.3.4.pup
libidn.so.11.5.10.pup
libvorbisenc.so.2.pup
Under Multimedia get
libesd.so.0.2.36.pup
pupget
xorg_opengl-6.8.1
bombayrockers did each item at a time, I do the first 3, all at once by untarring to the same location.
You make two simlink to each lib that requires it in /opt/kde/lib
example libartscbackend.so.0.0.0
1st link is libartscbackend.so.0
2nd link is libartscbackend.so
If you use a hard drive install, opt can go under /. The /opt/kde/bin folder must be copied to /usr/bin. The /opt/kde/lib folder can stay put.
If you use any other follow bombay. On a live or install #1 you have to enlarge the pupxxx. If you get lost on bombay"s instructions just ask, I will be checking this site.