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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Difference Between Puppy & Ubuntu
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2011, 11:24    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:

Your menu.lst is on the ntfs but we have to establish where is the OS that you boot up on? The same ntfs partition or another linux partition like ext2 or ext3 or Reiferts or something else?

My systems are scattered all over the place on 7 or 8 different partitions but two of them, both older versions of Knoppix are on that same ntsf partition as the menu.lst.

nooby wrote:

Sure I could move both menu.lst and gldr to (hd0,1) then most likely I could do as you would be able to do if I pay you Smile

Yes, but you would feel better knowing that you had paid to have it done right. Smile

nooby wrote:

Archiso is this one by Godane
http://godane.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/archiso-live-20110104-release/

Since I'm on dialup I have a friend with a fast connection download larger things to a flash drive for me. It may be a couple of days before I can pick it up but I'll get it.

nooby wrote:

I will test it using Knoppix Adriane maybe that one are like puppy an exception to the norm too. Slitaz as I remember did not even allow me to ever see the (hd0,2) at all. But maybe I have to give it another try now when I know how sure you are that everything is possible if one are the dreaded root guy.

Since you're Scandinavian you must know the Tale of Yggdrasil whose Root reaches through all time and space. Ubuntu is a tiny twig on that tree but everything is possible for Root.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2011, 11:31    Post subject:  

I have to trust you on your words but you do have experience of when it does not work. And I trust that is why it did not work for me. My set up most likely think it is a CDROM live distro and as you know those are a bit different in how they treat the CD most of the time. Puppy can write to it and Knoppix lately has added this due to requests from users?

Anyway Godane seems to have concentrated on Slitaz instead. His latest laptop having not enough memory for making bigger things?

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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2011, 11:41    Post subject:  

sheepy wrote:

Yes, but you act as though Ubuntu lacks power or something. You said it was inferior in the Linux world. It's very simple to change the environment and make it just as lightweight as Puppy. The buntu family has more compatibility than any other distro.

I said nothing about any lack of power. All Linux kernels have essentially the same power. I said nothing about lightweight. Lightweight is usually a disadvantage.

It is not correct that Ubuntu has more compatibility than any other distro.

sheepy wrote:

In my opinion, Ubuntu is for those who need to get things done that would otherwise have to be one with Windoze. Most other distros lack apps for specific tasks that not everyone would have to do. That's where Ubuntu comes in.

Debian now comes on five or six DVD's. How many DVD's does it take to hold Ubuntu? Name one specific task Ubuntu can do that Knoppix can't do... or that Puppy can't do.

There is no Linux distro that can do everything Windows can do. The drivers and apps just don't exist.
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sheepy


Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 235
Location: GA

PostPosted: Sun 08 May 2011, 18:51    Post subject:  

Bernie_by_the_Sea wrote:
sheepy wrote:

Yes, but you act as though Ubuntu lacks power or something. You said it was inferior in the Linux world. It's very simple to change the environment and make it just as lightweight as Puppy. The buntu family has more compatibility than any other distro.

I said nothing about any lack of power. All Linux kernels have essentially the same power. I said nothing about lightweight. Lightweight is usually a disadvantage.

It is not correct that Ubuntu has more compatibility than any other distro.

sheepy wrote:

In my opinion, Ubuntu is for those who need to get things done that would otherwise have to be one with Windoze. Most other distros lack apps for specific tasks that not everyone would have to do. That's where Ubuntu comes in.

Debian now comes on five or six DVD's. How many DVD's does it take to hold Ubuntu? Name one specific task Ubuntu can do that Knoppix can't do... or that Puppy can't do.

There is no Linux distro that can do everything Windows can do. The drivers and apps just don't exist.



Try running compiz effects in Puppy.
Try running a heavily DirectX-dependent 3D game in Wine on Knoppix or Puppy. Chances are, it will work half as often as it will in Ubuntu. I have gotten Aion, Shaiya, Talisman, both Left 4 Dead's, Black Ops, (I hate that game, btw) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed to all work flawlessly under Wine in Ubuntu. I've only had one or two 3D games fail to run under Wine in Ubuntu, while other distros never even have one work.
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Bernie_by_the_Sea


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Mon 09 May 2011, 00:19    Post subject:  

sheepy wrote:

Try running compiz effects in Puppy.
Try running a heavily DirectX-dependent 3D game in Wine on Knoppix or Puppy. Chances are, it will work half as often as it will in Ubuntu. I have gotten Aion, Shaiya, Talisman, both Left 4 Dead's, Black Ops, (I hate that game, btw) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed to all work flawlessly under Wine in Ubuntu. I've only had one or two 3D games fail to run under Wine in Ubuntu, while other distros never even have one work.

Well, I don't do games. I dislike Wine strongly and only use it for four minor programs in a sandbox-like compartment. I certainly don't do Direct-X which is one of the most dangerous components of Windows. So I have no personal experience with any of these.

The very existence of Wine proves the superiority of Windows. However, having said that, Wine is Wine. The same version of Wine should work exactly the same in Ubuntu, Knoppix and Puppy. According to the Wine developers there is no difference in how Wine works in various distros.

I find it more than curious that you would attempt to demonstrate the superiority of a Linux distro by how well it runs Windows programs. Odd. This is exactly the same as saying Ubuntu is better because it can run Microsoft Office under Wine better than any other distro.

Running compiz effects? Compiz with compiz effects is installed by default in Knoppix so I looked at it and played with it a bit. Not impressed. As far as Puppy goes, this is a matter of comparing a 120GB distro to a 650GB distro. I know my graphics card/driver can handle compiz with effects but this is a relatively large install for Puppy, at least 22MB and probably more. This is about a two-hour download for me on dialup so I don’t think it’s worth my time and effort to install it just to demonstrate how easy it is. I can’t see that I would ever have any use for it. However, I am certain that compiz effects can be run on Puppy as others have done it in the past.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 09 May 2011, 01:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
from the link in the first post.

Puppy Disctinctives

*

Puppy Linux is a distribution to use on older computers, or to run from a CD or USB. The whole system is usually about 85MB, which is small for an operating system. As a result, Puppy Linux usually boots quickly. Many users choose Puppy Linux for this speed and for the tools that come standard on a Puppy system image that can be burned and booted from CD. Puppy is a good choice for older hardware, too. Because it's so small, you can easily install it onto an older hard drive. It takes up less space and operates smoothly.



Wary most likely try to be for older computers.
Puppeee is for the Asus eeeepc netbook types.
Fluppy and Snowpup works good on an Acer Netbook.
Quirky is for Barry to experiment with new ideas.
Lupu short for Lucid Puppy make use of the Ubuntu repo
and works best on rather modern computers but not on the Acer D250 due to that one only having Atom N270 so I needed to add nosmp to the kernel line for Lupu to boot consistently each time instead of one out of ten when it was at the worst but it cleared up in the end so it booted 9 out of 10 times so I still use the nosmp just in case.

Puppy is seldom as small as that text says. Lupu try to be less than 128 targetting computers with 256MB RAM memories?

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666philb


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 1957
Location: wales

PostPosted: Mon 09 May 2011, 02:17    Post subject:  

sheepy wrote:



Try running compiz effects in Puppy.
Try running a heavily DirectX-dependent 3D game in Wine on Knoppix or Puppy. Chances are, it will work half as often as it will in Ubuntu. I have gotten Aion, Shaiya, Talisman, both Left 4 Dead's, Black Ops, (I hate that game, btw) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed to all work flawlessly under Wine in Ubuntu. I've only had one or two 3D games fail to run under Wine in Ubuntu, while other distros never even have one work.


the compiz_xfce4-4.6.2-Lucid.pet works fine on my lupu525, spinning cube,wobbly windows etc....
and i've had dragonage origins, stalker shadow of chenobyl, eufloria, working well in wine.

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15122
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2011, 05:19    Post subject:  

Read this from Paul on Distrowatch

Quote:
Ubuntu gets cursed for changing its default desktop from Gnome to Unity and many users threaten to jump ship. Yet, this week, Puppy announces that the maintainer of Puppy Lucid gets to take a break and that will end the Ubuntu connection. It will be up to the next maintainer to select a package base for Puppy 5.3. Where is the outrage for this announcement?

Yes, Ubuntu made a major change for Natty. I tried it and still use Lucid. I also used Puppy in the past, keeping it for a liveCD distro. But, every time I download the latest version of Puppy, it is very different from the last version. Puppy gets a pass on criticism for its many changes. Why?

I guess it is because Puppy has such a small following and Ubuntu has become the Linux version of MIcrosoft. It made the mistake of being successful.

Paul


Good that Puppy is being compared. Smile

Puppy used to undergo radical changes every 6 weeks.
Tsk tsk - the audacity of being radical . . .

Now it takes a little longer . . .
At the moment I am using Dejans revised and updated Dpup
- we seem to have lost the talented guy known as Guy Posil.

At the moment I have Windows on my system
- just never use it. Another partition has Ubuntu
- again rarely used. Use what works guys.

Larry is updating Lucid, many are creating, starting and implementing eg Spup, Icepup, Wary, Solidpup
Even complete forks such as Calf from Igu
http://www.iguleder.info/

Yep we are still frisky! Very Happy

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37fleetwood


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2011, 05:56    Post subject:  

got a kick out of reading this thread, I started with Linux years ago with Red Hat. I went back to Windows for several years as Linux wasn't terribly easy to use in 2001.
I found Puppy in 2007 and used it off and on for a year or two when I decided that Linux had finally advanced enough to be used full time. I searched and played with all the distros I could find and it actually came down to Puppy and Ubuntu as the front runners.
both distros have very distinct advantages and both have a few disadvantages. because I mainly like to get things done and have gone past wanting to tweak an os all the time I went with Ubuntu as my full time distro and occasionally play with Puppy. Gnome as a de is hard to beat, Nautilus over Rox was a no brainer. I bought my computer components with Ubuntu in mind and have not had any real problems. upgrades have gone flawlessly and on a fairly decent computer Ubuntu is still way faster and more nimble than Windows. sure it's slower than Puppy but isn't that to be expected?
I think it's funny how we tend to form camps around our favorites and can be a bit unfair in our criticism of the opposing camp, but really both Puppy and Ubuntu are amazing in what they offer and I tend to like to think of myself as in the anti-Windows camp.
I know some will take exception to what I have said but I suppose you have your computer and I have mine and both options are open to each of us. enjoy your computer as you like it. me, I like Gnome with compiz and lots of eye candy and all the heavy apps. Laughing

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2011, 06:51    Post subject:  

Lobster reminded me that Iguleder work on his Calf Linux.

"Even complete forks such as Calf from Igu
http://www.iguleder.info/
So sure I will test that one too when there is an iso to download.

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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2011, 15:14    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Lupu short for Lucid Puppy make use of the Ubuntu repo
and works best on rather modern computers...


I use Lupu 5.20 on my 12 year old 600MHz Celeron, with 384MB Ram with no issues

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mickee


Joined: 08 Feb 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Saskatoon SK Canada, Gateway 5300 Laptop, 600MHz Celeron, 384MB RAM, lucid puppy 5.2 (Full Install)

PostPosted: Tue 10 May 2011, 15:24    Post subject:  

37fleetwood wrote:
I think it's funny how we tend to form camps around our favorites and can be a bit unfair in our criticism of the opposing camp, but really both Puppy and Ubuntu are amazing in what they offer and I tend to like to think of myself as in the anti-Windows camp.


37fleetwood. I am with you. I was looking for an alternate to Win7, and chose ubuntu. I was looking for an up to date OS for my old laptop and went with puppy, and am not disappointed. My partner uses my Win7 and I use ubuntu/puppy. (No time to teach him linux, LOL!)

Haven't tried Natty or Ocelot, and I think i will wait for a release that doesn't use Unity.. or can that be removed/disabled?

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu 12 May 2011, 05:20    Post subject:  

For those poor confused souls fooled by all the FUD/Further Confusion about Puppy being 'derived from *buntu'....here's the GNU/Linux timeline showing the origins and derivatives of just about every Linux to date
[There are a few omissions in the Puppy derivatives (52 has been quoted recently) and where's TXZ_PUP 4.5 - Joe, is it a Pup derivative or a Slackware derivative...either way, it's not up there!!]

NOWHERE IS PUPPY A *BUNTU (OR ANY OTHER OS) DERIVATIVE!!

http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/11.04/gldt1104.png

It's effin huge so I didn't make the link active Wink

Aitch Smile
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37fleetwood


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2011, 23:13    Post subject:  

mickee wrote:
Haven't tried Natty or Ocelot, and I think i will wait for a release that doesn't use Unity.. or can that be removed/disabled?

I downloaded 11.04 and have played with it. Unity is a bit different but not terrible. you can log out and log back in with regular old Gnome like always.
it defaults to Gnome if your video card isn't up to it.

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37fleetwood


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 15 May 2011, 23:18    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:
For those poor confused souls fooled by all the FUD/Further Confusion about Puppy being 'derived from *buntu'....here's the GNU/Linux timeline showing the origins and derivatives of just about every Linux to date
[There are a few omissions in the Puppy derivatives (52 has been quoted recently) and where's TXZ_PUP 4.5 - Joe, is it a Pup derivative or a Slackware derivative...either way, it's not up there!!]

NOWHERE IS PUPPY A *BUNTU (OR ANY OTHER OS) DERIVATIVE!!

http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/11.04/gldt1104.png

It's effin huge so I didn't make the link active Wink

Aitch Smile

I think some (if not all) of the confusion is caused by people not understanding the what it means that some puppies use Ubuntu Binaries. maybe someone better qualified than I am should explain what that means.

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