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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2011, 06:00    Post subject:  

Laughing Laughing

stripe

my whoosh is coming to get me! Laughing Laughing

I only suggested using whoosh as an energy changer when there was a row going on....no matter, your use made me smile

Regarding aiming too high.........well, my philosophy is that if you have to make a big jump, and you aim 5 miles, but then only succeed in jumping 4 and 1/2 miles, you can feel proud of the achievement of how far you've made it
If on the other hand, you know you got a big 5 mile jump to make, and you feel somehow incapable and only aim for 800 yds, but make it, when you land you can reward yourself at having made it easy, but you may be standing in kaka, looking 4 and a half miles ahead, and see me Wink Very Happy
Sorry, but I guess I'm just adventurous, and lay the cards on the table
The idea was to make people aware that there's a big task ahead, but lots of us, so no-one person need carry a burden
Do what you can, when you can.....it'll get done.......after all, it's not going away

So make your jump for yourself, but don't restrain others, as we aren't tethered together, and an aim in the sense of this project can be broken down into many smaller tasks, much more in people's comfort zones and together we can do it, if we have the will

I'm simply trying to give a bit of inspiration to get it started

bugs problems solutions etc can be collected in PLUG2 for now, as said earlier

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69755

thanks

Aitch Smile
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RetroTechGuy


Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 2668
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2011, 12:45    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:
So make your jump for yourself, but don't restrain others, as we aren't tethered together, and an aim in the sense of this project can be broken down into many smaller tasks, much more in people's comfort zones and together we can do it, if we have the will

I'm simply trying to give a bit of inspiration to get it started


Beem pointed out that perhaps the first thing you want is a scoping document/charter:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=543443#543443

Perhaps get 3 or 4 of the more enthusiastic "members" (given that it isn't officially a "group" yet), and start carving out what you'd like PLUG to be.

I would nominate Aitch and PuppyLuvr as a start for some charter admins. You both have the enthusiasm, and experience with Puppy to guide the process.

It sounds as if WhoDo has volunteered as a Murga admin for the section.

I don't want any real role -- I don't really have the time to take on what I easily see this becoming. I will happily kibbutz on things, however.

I could see PLUG as playing a huge role, by simply collecting known solutions (e.g. my query about USB wireless cards). Identifying Puppy software repositories, and perhaps documenting what the software is, what it does, and which versions of Puppy it is known (or designed) to run under.

For example:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/puppylinux/pet_packages-lucid/

OK, I know what some of these are, but let's pick some at random...

What is:

Aisleriot-2.30-Lucid.pet
Banshee-2.1.0-lucid525.pet
Deadbeef-0.5.1-lucid525.pet

(actually, I know what Deadbeef is...but its name sure doesn't tell you that).

If PLUG created a software index, pointing to these repositories, it would help noobies massively, and even help more experienced users.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I could see this as a lot of book-keeping.
Book-keeping on bugs, suggestions and wish lists would help the Devs.
Book-keeping on software, and hardware solutions/choices would help the users at all levels.

And it won't happen all at once, but the framework could be set up, and for example, users could contribute their knowledge to the software index. The admins could mark these contributions as "contributed" or "confirmed", depending on their level of confidence on the contributed statement. This would spread the work around, and the key librarians would just need to monitor.

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ttuuxxx


Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 10821
Location: Ontario Canada,Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2011, 14:07    Post subject:  

Aitch wrote:
Smile

Sub Heading: Official Puppy/s
sub-sections for each
* Vintage - all pre 2.14 Puppy
* 2.14/2.14R/2.15CE/2.16/2.17/2.18/2.20?
* 3.00/3,01
* 4.12/4.12R/4.31/4.31R/4.6?
* 5.0-Lupu/Wary/Quirky5.1-Luci/5.2-Lucid/5.25/5.3
* 6.0?
* future

Aitch Smile

lets not forget about 2.14X its kind of in a league of its own, most of the backend surpasses 4 series and yet keels the 2 series kernel/xorg/ and gcc and glibC has been updated twice now to puppy 5.0 wary standards.
Surely its not a 2 series nor is it a 5 series.
LOL ttuuxxx

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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 12:54    Post subject:  

a tip

complaining about problems is useless

listing errors that were encountered is helpful (or can be if done correctly )

my point on this is all the problems or things I didn't
like about "puppy" I first investigated for a fix *yes that means do something

if a fix wasnt possible to locate I fixed it

if I was unhappy the way something was working
I took the time to make it work the way I wanted it to

if current development models werent what I wanted
I developed the way I wanted it to go

(the point here is do something to find a solution )

some may see this as rebellion

I see this as progress


the dictator model is not or should not even ever imply
being dictator over the entire open source project

PLUG should only organize information to be useful to all not control it or guide it to only one version .... that would be just another form of manipulation and control and who needs that


just do something the way you want it to be

step up to the plate and do something

if you can edit web pages edit web pages
if you can moderate the forum moderate the forum
if you can build tools build tools
if you can test test
if you can do something else not listed do it

if you can only complain don't


@Jeff a side note this post wasnt directed to you but what follows below does
Quote:

lets not forget about 2.14X

lets not forget anyone ... umm... with over 400,000 views I'm sure somebody has seen it Smile
Jeff just keep doing it


Joe

edited to fix formatting

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Last edited by big_bass on Thu 21 Jul 2011, 11:33; edited 3 times in total
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 17:15    Post subject:  

Joe

Thanks for posting, however it's a shame you don't seem to have seen or understood my suggestion, here....

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=543505#543505

....else you'd have noticed I am DOing things

I DID list derivatives in a separate sub-section from 'Official Puppy', so popular derivatives like yours would be high on the list, and it is definitely NOT the intention to forget anyone, or any type of Puppy based setup - please add yours to the derivatives full list, (below)
If you're quick, you'll beat ttuuxxx, and the others

Mind you, it IS good to see someone else trying to motivate folks, even if our methods vary Wink Very Happy

Who exactly is complaining...?


raffy's post here, seems to have both diverted a few people away from the objective, and attracted a few moaners

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69916


I tried to gee up the nominee admins a bit, here, as John M asked for an agreed forum structure, not an alternate hosting site

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69928

amigo makes an interesting observation

But it all needs to be seen in context of the following -

Do-ocracy in action


puppyluvr has taken the initiative and set up a website for the 'Puppy Linux Documentation Project'

http://www.theplpd.webs.com/

Announced in its own forum thread, here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69979


Also, see the 'DEVs, who are you...' thread, here

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70014

There are 45 DEVs listed so far, but only one joke reply Sad

Also for the DEVs - Kudos

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70015

For everyone, including DEVs, Top5s

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70007

Derivatives - full list

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=545733#545733

There is PLUG2 for information about fixes that anyone can add

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69755

and another puppyluvr initiative, PUG, when a certain admin was deleting threads in the original PLUG forum section set up by ttuuxxx

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=68436


RTG

If you come across those 3 or 4 more enthusiastic members who didn't leave or get given the heave-ho for upsetting forum mods or admin....please send them along....I could use the extra help

So far the position is that I have made the only suggestion for a forum structure, (see above) and asked for people to comment/modify/add to/detract from....so we can get 3 nominee admins to agree it.......yet all that's happened so far is people asking for more - from charters, road maps, to mind maps, to anything except anywhere near an agreement that John can implement, so folks can get on with it..........

Thanks for supporting myself and puppyluvr, and if you spot any other positive posts, I'll gladly add them Wink

I'm still waiting for nominee admin comment on the proposed structure, or an alternate 'vision' for the future growth of the forum that might inspire a few people...

Just DO it! Very Happy

Aitch Smile
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 19:06    Post subject:  

The creative projects Joe and countless others have worked on were done in free and fairly unrestricted environment. None needed the "dictator model" Joe referred to in order to be creative. I certainly don't conceive of any reason to implement such a thing. Although, I do question why anyone thinks they need such powers.

(For anyone not familiar with this, the request for the PLUG includes the request for extra moderators who will have absolute ownership of the section who will implement absolute rules)

A lot of us think the peer-to-peer relationship is a key reason why open source software is such successful a model. I think some people won't welcome the new model and for good reason.

And lastly, of course the PLUG will extend power to the other sub-forums on this site.

~

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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1721
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2011, 23:07    Post subject:  

Bruce B wrote:

(For anyone not familiar with this, the request for the PLUG includes the request for extra moderators who will have absolute ownership of the section who will implement absolute rules)


The reason that the moderator structure was proposed for the PLUG was to insure that a rogue moderator could not alter, delete or move posts based of whatever agenda the rogue used, rather than a clear and public set of rules.
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Volhout


Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 402

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 09:14    Post subject: Testing  

Is there any value in collecting data about a test coverage for new releases, maybe with "known issues".
It would require a database with test volunteers, including list of machines/configurations they would be able to test on.
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 21 Jul 2011, 10:35    Post subject: Re: Testing  

Volhout wrote:
Is there any value in collecting data about a test coverage for new releases, maybe with "known issues".

It would require a database with test volunteers, including list of machines/configurations they would be able to test on.


I think it would be valuable. Developers don't have a broad array of hardware to test on, or the time to do all the testing. Test by releasing software and wait for bugs and problems to come back.

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Enrique Corbellini


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri 10 May 2013, 07:48    Post subject: way to give optimism to puppy  

Oh, sorry I belatedly found out that there was this debate.
But I would add that I appreciate that Puppy Linux has continued to exist since 2011, despite the difficulties to continue with the same joy and creativity that took until 2011.
Moreover, regarding the group PLUG there, I think Puppy Linux is not the only free technology organization that has chosen that path.
I see for example that opensourceecology.org is also a very interesting and creative organization, and like puppy, also recognizes its internal operating problem: http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1004/why-is-ose-so-quiet-lately

Having the ability to recognize the internal problems and also have the ability to explain it publicly, speaks about our strength as an organization and also its human and natural quality, since most of the organizations, especially companies, rely on the secret as a way to defend the rest of the people, because they tend to see others as enemies.

Regarding the future, I recommend the link between free culture organizations, and its worldwide promotion. It is a way to draw, and we should encourage this union through international events such linking people dedicated to hardware and free software.

I leave a nice song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmnLBPENNys Wink

Original text:

Oh, lamento haberme enterado tardíamente de que existiera este debate.
Pero quisiera agregar que agradezco que Puppy Linux haya seguido existiendo desde 2011, a pesar de las dificultades para continuar con aquella alegría y creatividad que tuvo hasta 2011.
Por otra parte, respecto de que exista el grupo PLUG, creo que Puppy Linux no es la única organización de tecnología libre que ha optado por ese camino.
Veo por ejemplo que opensourceecology.org también es una organización muy interesante y creativa, y al igual que puppy, también reconoce su problema interno de funcionamiento:

El tener la capacidad de reconocer los problemas internos y el tener también la capacidad de explicarlos públicamente, habla de nuestra fortaleza como organización y también de su cualidad humana y natural, ya que la mayoría de las organizaciones, y especialmente las empresas, confían en el secreto como forma de defenderse del resto de las personas, porque tienden a ver a las demás personas como enemigos.

Respecto del futuro, recomiendo la unión entre organizaciones de la cultura libre, y su fomento a nivel mundial. Es un camino a trazar, y deberíamos fomentar esta unión mediante eventos internacionales que unan por ejemplo a las personas dedicadas al harware y software libre.
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puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3211
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Tue 21 May 2013, 16:43    Post subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
Please consider jpining the Puppy Linux
Users Group on Facebook.

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Puppy since 2.15CE...
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