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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
ARM... Again... Any chance for Puppy on the 25 USD PC?
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puppyiso


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 595

PostPosted: Sat 20 Aug 2011, 06:55    Post_subject:  

I saw the later version of the 25 dollar computer. It's a slightly bigger.
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qkall

Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun 28 Aug 2011, 08:58    Post_subject:  

i came to the forum looking for this precise thread! just discovered the raspberry pi and immediately thought of puppy. when this comes out i would be very willing to help... granted it would be a lot of learning on my end i have a web server i'm not using... if interested please pm me.
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep 2011, 07:35    Post_subject:  

So its light in the end of the tunnel?

I cam not really decrypt the tech talk here, but I am given the impression there is several ways to go.

This project, as so many others(the 25 dollar PC), can only say like other... Yeah... Linux=Ubuntu.

I think they will loose a lot on this.

As far as I can see the 5.2.8 has a neat little feature where you can uninstall all programs(one by one), so some of that problematic software can go away. So if one could identify what programs for 5.2.8 that is ARM friendly or unfriendly, such a remaster could be made.

Then its the hardware drivers. I guess there is not such a huge need for the large hardware driver for that 25dollar PC? Looks somehow limited to me.

If one assumes that hardware support is NOT the major issues here and getting it to boot is, then I guess its time to see if one of PuppyLinux serious contributors can get his hands on the device?

I think it could be time to make a post referring to this in their forum? Or?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep 2011, 10:00    Post_subject:  

Atle
Quote:
If one assumes that hardware support is NOT the major issues here and getting it to boot is, then I guess its time to see if one of PuppyLinux serious contributors can get his hands on the device?

I think it could be time to make a post referring to this in their forum? Or?


Nooby here: Atle it can be my poor grasp of English or my lack of structured logic capacity.

But I wonder if you not do some kind of category error.

Are you aware of what an ARM CPU really means? I mean it is very different.

okay you have Debian guys them know ARM some of them at least.
And apparently even Ubuntu has now jumped on the wagon them too.

So the only way forward would be to either go the Debian root and make a Pussy that works for ARM by using a true Debian from scratch.

To expect that a Puppy Developer would even have time to get into ARM is so unlikely for me that I am surprised you even ask.

Now sure I can be wrong but suppose one of them took upon himself to do it. Would it not take more than a year of 24/7 or somethign and at that time the ARM CPU has already changed to a totally other CPU still named ARM but entirely other inside and the poor puppy Dev has to start all over.

But sure I can can totally wrong but we have been at it now for a year or so eagerly asking for a puppy on ARM but none have even said a peep or beep on it from the Developers side and that tells me it is impossible to do and very embarrassing to admit how hard it is.

The reason Ubuntu is on it is that them are paid by that rich guy.

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep 2011, 11:57    Post_subject:  

So you sort of ask me to post a thread on this issue in their forum? About how long they intend to stick to a compatible technology? I agree to all you say and it might even be wrongful to even ask this question.

Maybe they need Ubuntu more? Or ASlackware ARM?

One might just delete this thread then.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep 2011, 12:12    Post_subject:  

Sorry my poor English makes me come through as more critical than what I really am.

Trust me on this. I am as eager as you are to get Puppy or something that works as we are used to as puppy works and I do want it on all these cheap and also expensive versions of ARM surf pads whatever name to give them.

But although I can be wrong and I do hope that I am wrong but I have seen no evidence that I am wrong.

Puppy forum simply have no Dev that seems interested to spend all that time and effort needed for that to get done.

So what can we do. I am not good at suggesting work arounds.

1. Debian seems to be a good choice. Them already have experience of ARM for their OS. So that is one route.

2. The "Hackers" or what name to give them. Those that "root" Smartphones. Them know a lot about how to make ROM versions that works a bit like Puppy in that them allow that one have Admin access to things that the Devs of that OS did not want people to have.

so them are in some way almost there? are them not?

And the industry do seem to tolerate them too. Some are against it but some realize it is almost impossible to stop?

So these guys has the knowledge that our Devs lack.

Now I ran out of imagination. Now it is your turn Smile

so trust me I may sound as a Nasty Nay sayer but I am all for what you want too but one ahve to see reality as it is? Smile

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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep 2011, 15:02    Post_subject:  

I agree. I t might not be the thing to go further than checking out the respond.

And its seems possible and impossible.

I am not sure what to say now either:-)
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 05 Sep 2011, 21:10    Post_subject:  

Slackware ARM to help Puppy ARM
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Atle

Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 283
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 02:19    Post_subject:    

This is an offer you can't refuse
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 03:24    Post_subject:  

Puppy is light and efficient, just like ARM.
I expect to be running Puppy on an ARM device next year.
The year after that I expect to be running Android Apps in Puppy Cool

However that is an expectation, not a given . . .
I think I would prefer a complete tablet to a miniature motherboard . . .
The motherboard might be the start . . .

There is a process of development . . .

When the motherboards are out, buy two and send one to your favourite puppy developer. How can they resist . . .

Meanwhile in 2011 at IFA in Germany, Apple suppresses Samsung
- (free advertising anyone)
Quote:
But the tablet market has changed in recent months," especially in Asia where Apple is less dominant, Pallenberg told AFP, pointing out that a Chinese model is available there for only 70 euros ($100)


Here is a message for our Chinese capitalist comrades
Make phone - bigger - call it tablet - sell cheap. Shocked
做手机 - 更大 - 平板 - 低价卖。

. . . and here is something to run free on the new venture . . .
http://www.minilinux.net/ Cool

Puppy Phone
Phreaking Perfection

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Stripe

Joined: 23 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: In a field. England

PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep 2011, 16:24    Post_subject:  

hi all

It would be nice to see a puppy arm but I can see at least 1 problem everybody would have to have similar/the same hardware to dev/test/use it on. The rate of change in these devices and their affordability/availability worldwide would make this nigh on impossible at the moment. I think it would be wise to wait for the industry standard to emerge first, remember betamax.

hope this helps
don
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Dave_G


Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 459

PostPosted: Wed 07 Sep 2011, 16:33    Post_subject:  

I fear a port to ARM will not be so easy.

On the x86, Intel has kept code compatibility from the 8088 all the way
up to the latest generation CPUs.
I fear that this will not be the case with the ARM.
Already there are several ARMs, the 9, the 10 etc etc and almost all
semiconductor manufactures are making an ARM processor of some description and I'll bet they are not all compatible.

The other reason for the success of the x86 is that IBM created a standard
for the motherboard based on the x86 and this was pretty much kept.
By this I mean that no matter what mobo you have (even today), all the
resources external to the cpu are compatible and indeed all in the right place
as far as physical addresses, interrupts, data buses go.

I can't see all those far eastern manufactures all trying to make things
next to nothing bothering to keep compatibility when it might cost an extra
buck or two.

So until the ARM market becomes more mature, it would be a pure waste
of time to try and have a serious go at porting anything to ARM.
Yes sure there have been some projects but what boards do they support and how widely available are they and for how long before things change again?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more Linux ports to ARM but I suspect
this is still somewhat down the road.
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Wed 07 Sep 2011, 22:16    Post_subject:  

We ran Sun java based windowing systems
http://www.tmxxine.com/p3/p6.html

We were sweeter than sugar
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2746872300.html

We have had two hardware manufacturers that provided Puppy built in, that I remember .
One was a thin client. It was small. It was nice. Barry was sent one. It was a bit too expensive.

At the right price, everyone might be tempted . . .
and Puppy can recommend/support/optimise a specific hardware platform.

Give us the Dog and we will provide the Woof

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep 2011, 08:37    Post_subject:  

There are so many aspects to this that I don't even know where to begin.
Let me just put one aspect - a $25 device will perform just like how much $25 is worth. Decoding 1080p? Of course not. Serving files over Gbps LAN? Of course not. Playing youtube? Of course not.
Can ARM devices do all that? Of course. But not at $25 price point. And not when running on AA battery either.

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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Thu 08 Sep 2011, 10:43    Post_subject:  

http://www.raspberrypi.org/?p=152
Quote:
What you’re seeing in the video is the Raspberry Pi running h.264 video at 1080p. (We didn’t have the audio hooked up so we could talk to people while it was running.) At the point this video was taken, this demo had been running for about 8 hours. I was busily getting attendees to feel the SoC, to emphasise the fact that it only draws 1W, staying surprisingly cool.



http://www.arm.com/products/processors/technologies/instruction-set-architectures.php
Quote:
ARM uses the Universal Assembly Language to provide a canonical form for all ARM and Thumb instructions. This allows the user to write assembly code which can be assembled for either instruction set.

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