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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Fixing Fido..
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disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6180
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 00:14    Post subject:  
It is updated, just not frequently enough for Igueleder Wink
There are fixes in git post-2.10, e.g. for the famous focus bug.
Looks to me like the last improvement was last August http://repo.or.cz/w/rox-filer.git

Barry, perhaps you're seeing "3 months" in the sourceforge git/svn, which is for the rox desktop, not the rox filer. Or have you found some other site?
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 4742
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 01:27    Post subject:  
Not certain if this is something that needs fixed or a usability issue.

Inserted a usb flash drive to install a couple of pets.No icon appeared.No problem though. Pmount,admin password, use Pmount to mount flash drive and install pets.
Question is, I guess, should the icon appear on the desktop when a flash drive or cd is inserted. (just tried with a cd as well...no icon)
flash drive in Fido.png
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flash drive in Fido.png
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7019
Location: qld
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 03:09    Post subject:  
Hi James... confirmed drives "bug".. similarly if you mount a partition the icons don't refresh, I bet it's Barry's new drive icon mechanism.. that's one for Barry Laughing

Well.. I have been running as fido a few days.. the sudo thing is a PITA, I just recompiled sudo, no better, you can't see the typing, but I guess maybe that's how it is, you can't see it at the prompt either. I guess fido kind of does his job .. he protects the machine from the idiot in front of it! Rolling Eyes Also, you can browse with a tin foil hat, play music, watch video.. not too much else. I'll fix the slickpet bug, if zigbert feels like it he can fix the Pmusic bug but it's hardly a showstopper. There will be bugs with plenty of pets from the forum, many are hard coded to /root and some keep config files under /usr, not good. (even gdk-pixbuf does that.. hmmmm..)

Screeny for kicks...
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1058
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 03:11    Post subject:  
mavrothal wrote:

Fido failed to startx because /tmp has 755 permissions and /dev/* 660. Changing to 777 and 666 respectively got me to X.


To correct what I said before, is only the /tmp permissions that is the problem. Devices permissions do not need changing.
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7019
Location: qld
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 03:15    Post subject:  
I wonder if ownership of /tmp should be changed?

Code:
# ls -l /
total 56
drwxrwxrwx   2 root root     41 2006-03-05 11:43 archive
drwxr-xr-x   2 root root   4096 2011-09-10 09:23 bin
drwxr-xr-x  16 root root   4096 2011-09-11 16:38 dev
drwxr-xr-x  48 fido users  4096 2011-09-11 17:02 etc
drwxr-xr-x  15 root root   4096 2011-09-10 09:23 initrd
drwxr-xr-x  12 root root   4096 2008-01-28 11:23 lib
drwx------   2 root root  16384 2011-09-10 09:23 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x  26 root root   4096 2011-09-11 03:38 mnt
drwxr-xr-x   4 root root   4096 2009-12-18 18:59 opt
dr-xr-xr-x 108 root root      0 2011-09-12 02:37 proc
drwxr-xr-x  71 fido users  4096 2011-09-11 17:13 root
drwxr-xr-x   2 root root   2787 2011-09-05 18:41 sbin
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root root      9 2011-08-17 19:28 sln -> /sbin/sln
drwxr-xr-x  12 root root      0 2011-09-11 03:38 sys
drwxrwxrwt   6 root root    660 2011-09-11 17:12 tmp
drwxr-xr-x  41 root root   4096 2011-03-18 20:31 usr
drwxr-xr-x  27 root root   4096 2011-09-10 09:23 var
#


current owner:group <-- root:root

I think we fix those few bugs and we can call fido's status "usable with issues"
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 4742
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 03:17    Post subject:  
01micko wrote:
Hi James... confirmed drives "bug".. similarly if you mount a partition the icons don't refresh, I bet it's Barry's new drive icon mechanism.. that's one for Barry Laughing

Well.. I have been running as fido a few days.. the sudo thing is a PITA, I just recompiled sudo, no better, you can't see the typing, but I guess maybe that's how it is, you can't see it at the prompt either. I guess fido kind of does his job .. he protects the machine from the idiot in front of it! Rolling Eyes Also, you can browse with a tin foil hat, play music, watch video.. not too much else. I'll fix the slickpet bug, if zigbert feels like it he can fix the Pmusic bug but it's hardly a showstopper. There will be bugs with plenty of pets from the forum, many are hard coded to /root and some keep config files under /usr, not good. (even gdk-pixbuf does that.. hmmmm..)

Screeny for kicks...


Been running as fido a lot today and for the stuff you mentioned.....no problems.But, think I'll still be ROOT. Laughing

Don't believe I'll be running that command you tried though. Smile
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7019
Location: qld
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 04:07    Post subject:  
BarryK wrote:
I don't see why having /root as fido's home is a problem. There is some opposition to it, but as far as I can see that is only due to ingrained learning about how things should be.

When fido is chosen at first shutdown, everything in /root is set to have the correct permissions as required for fido. So, everything in /root is just as it would be as in any other home for fido.

The fundamental understanding is that Puppy is not a multi-user system, at least not in the normal way. Multiple users are accommodated by separate save-files, so there is no conflict in committing /root to be used by fido.

Except however if you want to jump from fido to administrator, and then perform some operation as administrator, in which case files with root permissions could get written into /root.
It might seem perverse, but why not set the administrator's home directory to something other than /root -- say /root0, or /administrator?
Apart from it being weird, I can't see anything wrong with doing that.

The thing is, there is so much dependency on the home directory being /root. So many PET packages have /root hard-coded.


On the other hand.. why create a new home for the administrator? Why not just copy everything /root (from the read-only filesystem) to /fido and set /fido as fido:users?

As you can imagine I have been jumping between fido and root for the past few days. There are plenty of conflicts with some config files stored in /root.. for example if I use geany as the root user when I log in as fido geany errors because the config is owned by root;root. I think this setup would be easier for the general puppy user who still then has the chance to login as the administrator and back into fido.

At least if fido has his own directory these conflicts won't occur.. the only problem I see is with browsers and the hard coding of the profile. Maybe just delete root's profile on the switchover? ..(remember fido's will be pristine from the read-only fs).

Note that all progs I am writing from now on have configs stored in the script and written at first run.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 9389
Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 04:18    Post subject:  
01Mick0 writes:
Quote:
I think this setup would be easier for the general puppy user
who still then has the chance to login as the administrator and back into fido.


Not that I am a typical Noob, them do progress into a seasoned user
but I would welcome anything making it easier for us that are severely nooby.

So I need to be able to easily change between Admin and Fido.

1. As Fido I want to be as protected as possible and
2. as Admin I want to be as free as I am now in Puppy root.

Then the lovers of "real linux them wanting Multi" could at least be somewhat protected while being Fido.

But those like me that want to be Admin now and then
we can be Fido when we feel insecure and to be Admin
when we feel bold again and everybody will be satisfied Smile

Edit I am very bad at logic. But this does mean I need
two browsers. One for Fido set up to be as secure as possible.
and one Admin browser that also should be as secure as possible
and the reason is that Fido Browser can not know what I do as Admin??????

Doesn't most noobs want to have one browser as Fido and one as admin?

Edit Sorry me dense. I want to test what happens.

1. Root user name is root and password is woofwoof until one give it a unique password?How does one do such?

2. Admin is given a unique password when I reboot after first install?
but that is not root then is it? I mean root password is woofwoof but Admin I give a unique password only me know. Does root then still have password woofwoof or does that change into the Admin user account?

Does it matter if I test it on Lupu 528 or Slacko B2?
okay I install both to a PackardBell Laptop.
But I need to know how to get back into Admin? Tell me please!
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Last edited by nooby on Sun 11 Sep 2011, 05:52; edited 1 time in total
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1058
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 05:38    Post subject:  
01micko wrote:
I wonder if ownership of /tmp should be changed?

No need, root:root/777is the default ownership/permissions of /tmp in most distros and does not give any problems to fido (that I could see).
But "somehow" slacko-beta 2 iso has /tmp with 755.

Quote:
On the other hand.. why create a new home for the administrator? Why not just copy everything /root (from the read-only filesystem) to /fido and set /fido as fido:users?

This makes a lot of sense, but then everything in puppy should be $HOME-aware.
And if you do that, then why "fido" and not anything that the user wants?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 05:55    Post subject:  
mavrothal wrote:
01micko wrote:
I wonder if ownership of /tmp should be changed?

No need, root:root/777is the default ownership/permissions of /tmp in most distros and does not give any problems to fido (that I could see).
But "somehow" slacko-beta 2 iso has /tmp with 755.

Quote:
On the other hand.. why create a new home for the administrator? Why not just copy everything /root (from the read-only filesystem) to /fido and set /fido as fido:users?

This makes a lot of sense, but then everything in puppy should be $HOME-aware.
And if you do that, then why "fido" and not anything that the user wants?

This is the second time you talk about 777 and 666 and such.
Can you maybe explain how I as a noob can do what you did there?
I am in slacko on another computer now and need to set tmp so it can be accessed too. What am I supposed to do then?
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 06:01    Post subject:  
Should one report on slacko fido things here or in the Fixing Fido thread?

The first thing that did happen was that it ask for Admin to boot.
Is that normal or what to expect? Okay I give it the admin psw then.
I report on it here until somebody bark at it. Smile
okay that gave me an X but the Pinboard have no icons.
How does one get them back? tested to do icon switch
tested to restart jwm tested to do restart of x none get icons back.
doing urxvt asking whoami it says fido
Seamonkey works with flash and it did remember the bookmark from first run.

So now I need to test how restricted I am. Trying to read sda2 and play music.

I could play music on the sda2 as fido. Was that intentional by design.
As I remember some regular linux don't even allow one to get to sda2 as restricted user?

oops I fail to get in as Amdin or root! What am I suppose to do?
should I use the urxvt to change to Admin? I failed to do it from the prompt. going out to prompt itdid not let me log in as neither root nor admin
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 06:39    Post subject:  
nooby wrote:

This is the second time you talk about 777 and 666 and such.
Can you maybe explain how I as a noob can do what you did there?
I am in slacko on another computer now and need to set tmp so it can be accessed too. What am I supposed to do then?


nooby, as I said earlier I'm running a variant of slacko beta2, so what I say may not be directly relevant to slacko beta2 proper.
Micko is aware of this variant so is kind of esoteric.

In any case to check your permissions type in terminal
ls -l /
on the list you should see among others something like
drwxrwxrwt 6 root root 660 2011-09-11 17:12 tmp
if it is
drwxr-xr-x 6 root root .....
the type in terminal
chmod 777 /tmp
To change it to "drwxrwxrwt" as it should be.
Read more about linux permission in one of the many web articles like this one
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope
PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 06:42    Post subject:  
Quote:
To change it to "drwxrwxrwt" as it should be.

Yours drwxrwxrwt 6 root root 660 2011-09-11 17:12 tmp
Mine drwxrwxrwt 6 root root 1180 2011-09-11 12:00 tmp
them differ on the 660 1180 what is that all about?

okay now from slack B2

# ls -l /
total 52
drwxrwxrwx 2 root root 41 2006-03-05 02:43 archive
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-09-11 11:18 bin
drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 4096 2011-09-11 11:19 dev
drwxr-xr-x 42 root root 4096 2011-09-10 14:19 etc
drwxr-xr-x 15 root root 4096 2011-09-11 11:18 initrd
drwxr-xr-x 10 root root 4096 2011-09-11 11:18 lib
drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2011-09-11 11:18 lost+found
drwxr-xr-x 11 root root 4096 2011-09-10 14:19 mnt
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 3 2009-12-18 09:59 opt
dr-xr-xr-x 96 root root 0 2011-09-11 13:19 proc
drwxr-sr-x 54 fido users 4096 2011-09-11 11:59 root
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 2787 2011-09-05 10:41 sbin
drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 0 2011-09-10 14:19 sys
drwxrwxrwt 6 root root 1180 2011-09-11 12:00 tmp
drwxr-xr-x 22 root root 4096 2011-09-10 14:19 usr
drwxr-xr-x 25 root root 4096 2011-09-11 11:18 var
#

# whoami
fido
#


does not the hash sign tell me is root still when I ask it says fido
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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 06:47    Post subject:  
BarryK wrote:
I don't see why having /root as fido's home is a problem


Of course I realise why fido was sharing root's HOME.. for size, but I reckon if users want the added "security" (note loose use of term) of a "user" account then they have to pay the price, both in kilobytes and time. (my password is 4 chars.. not very "secure" eh? It's certainly taking it's toll on those 4 corresponding keys!)

The problem is getting back to being administrator. You (BK) did state that going "fido" is a one way ticket, but why should it be? With a pretty minimal amount of code in the base puppy we can give fido his home and keep admin where they belong. The kilobyte cost is in the pupsave, which is entirely the user's choice (still cheap by any other distro's standards).

nooby wrote:
Should one report on slacko fido things here or in the Fixing Fido thread?

Here

nooby wrote:
okay that gave me an X but the Pinboard have no icons.
How does one get them back?

This is covered on the previous page. Please understand I'm not being nasty but please also understand my time is limited and I can't direct you to everything Wink

mavrothal wrote:
[respose to why create a new home for the administrator?] This makes a lot of sense, but then everything in puppy should be $HOME-aware.
And if you do that, then why "fido" and not anything that the user wants?


Yes of course, but for the moment we fix fido.. kiss Wink I suppose in a way it's a nice gimmicky selling point for the new capability. Also, (again just for now Wink ) allowing any username implies we can add multiple accounts. I think we don't support that until all else is fixed.

Cheers
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 11 Sep 2011, 06:57    Post subject:  
Quote:
Please understand I'm not being nasty but please also understand my time is limited and I can't direct you to everything Wink


Yes sure I didn't even knew you felt that I expected you to do such.
I hoped anybody in the thread could answer.

okay I look on earlier pages then here it is
Quote:

to get back to root, drop to the prompt and type "login root",
then password and "xwin" and you'll be back into familiar territory!.
You can do the reverse to get back to fido.

Thanks now I am in root and that get me back the icons on pinboard.
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