Can I install Puppy from CD, with no internet?

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matelot
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Can I install Puppy from CD, with no internet?

#1 Post by matelot »

Hi, guys - downloaded the puppy seamonkey iso with a view to getting some life out of an old machine. It's one of the few distros that will run AND detect the mouse!

Mrs matelot is on it right now using the LiveCD, but I want to install permanently. BUT, I've no internet connection on that machine. What's to be done. Seems no option to install w/o a connection.

Cheers :?

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Sit Heel Speak
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#2 Post by Sit Heel Speak »

I am not familiar with the booting architecture of the LiveCD, but here's what I did to install to hard disk from the .iso image:

1. copy the files BOOT.CAT and BootCatalog.cat if present, ISOLINUX.CFG, BOOT.MSG, ISOLINUX.BIN, INITRD.GZ, VMLINUZ, and PUP_201.SFS to your disk's topmost directory (I guess this would be /mnt/hda1, or C:\ if you are doing the copy in Windows)

2. Go to a machine which does have Internet connection and download the Grub bootloader. You can find it with Google--either WinGrub if the earlier OS is XP, or Grub4Dos if DOS or Win9x.

3. If WinGrub, just install it; if Grub4DOS, unpack it to a C:\boot subdirectory (putting it onto a FAT16 or FAT32 partition works just fine). Tailor grub.exe's configuration file menu.lst (in \boot\grub) for your system, if necessary. Those of us who are dual-booting Windows 9x and Puppy using Grub4DOS place menu options for Puppy and Windows at the top of config.sys and then a c:\boot\grub.exe line in autoexec.bat which executes if the Puppy config.sys menu option is chosen. Further details, on request.
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Sun 02 Jul 2006, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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fitzhugh
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Don't need internet to install

#3 Post by fitzhugh »

It should be no problem, if I understand your question. You have the live cd, and that is all you need to install it.

In fact, you shouldn't need to copy quite all the stuff mentioned above. You can run
  • puppy a number of ways, inlcuding:
  • multisession live cd: saves all info back to cd, never touching HDD.
  • Off a usb flash drive, never touching HDD.
  • A normal boot off CD, where you let it create pup_save.sfs on HDD but others stay on CD.
  • A much faster boot from cd by just copying pup_201.sfs to the same location as pup_save.sfs on your hard drive (likely right on C drive. Faster because reading from HDD is faster than from CD - made a BIG difference for me!)
  • A 'frugal' install, where you copy files from CD to HDD as stated above, though you actually don't need quite all those files - you need just pup_201.sfs next to pup_save.sfs, along with vmlinuz and initrd.gz into your new /boot directory, though this requires installing grub as well. See below for more about grub. (Grub is for choosing between multiple OS's to boot)
  • A full install, where it saves right inside a partition instead of inside pup_save.sfs. I haven't tried this, but I believe you do the same as a frugal install only have it save to a partition instead of a squash filesystem (pup_save.sfs) inside another partition (which is rather like a partition inside a partition, as far as puppy is concered.

    There are benefits to each, and sounds like the last two are what you are aiming for. For details on benefits of frugal vs full install see
    http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.php?t=9048
    I believe concensus is toward frugal, though I could be wrong. Also, I think you can get the ramdisk benefits from simply adding psleep=999 as a boot parameter. Didn't read closely when I read that and don't have the reference, but search on this board for details or ask and I'll dig it up. One nice thing is backups: just copy pup_save.sfs, and you can also have multiple ones to choose from by renaming them pup_save.sfs, pup_save1.sfs, pup_save2.sfs... and it will prompt you to pick one on boot. Very usefull when first learning/tweaking/breaking/reinstalling... just snag a copy of a 'good' one with all your added stuff as you go when about to try some major change. Takes a little more effort with a full partition, but of course you can backup those as well. I have not yet read about any performance penalties from running in a squashfs, though there might be one (anyone?). It works fast enought for me with 1G PIII, but I gather you might be on an even older box.

    I have not tried a frugal without grub, which may be possible (perhaps requiring the files I suggest leaving out?? Anyone?). You would consider this if you did not need to still be able to boot to windows on the machine. Same could be done with full, I assume.

    In fact, I suggest trying this first to see if it gives you what you are after... just copy over pup_201.sfs from cd to HDD next to pup_save.sfs. If all you want is faster booting, this could be it. If you want to boot without requiring a cd and want to be able to still boot windows or another OS, then go with grub. If JUST puppy, no cd to boot and no booting another OS, then frugal or some sort of full install probably be best, and that I have not tried (just had no need since I want multiboot to icky windows... was about to nuke it yesterday when a young kid who lives at the Caribbean restaraunt down the block asked if I could find him a chess game for his ancient windows computer. Poor kid can play chess or hang out with crack dealers... I think I'll keep windows and get him into computers instead!) Ok, back on track...

    Oh yeah, I think you can get the ramdisk benefits of frugal with a full install from simply adding psleep=999 as a boot parameter. Didn't read closely when I read that and don't have the reference, but search on this board for details or ask and I'll dig it up.

    Grub: there are a number of different ways to multiboot, with grub appearing to be most popular here, and the only one I've tried this decade. Grub is pretty easy to set up, but it must be on a linux partition. This means you have to partition your drive - rather easy (though you can screw up everything if you make a mistake) with gparted, others like the other tools. wingrub, mentioned in previous post, probably doesn't need it (assuming from the name, haven't looked myself, didn't know it was there) and certainly there are such that don't require a linux partition (ext2 or ext3). The Grub Boot Config under Menu->Control Panels in puppy 2 does require a linux partition to install to, something not clear until you try and it fails. Also note that with older (pre-2001??) computers you MUST put whatever is used to boot within the first ~8.5 G on the drive due to a bios limitation. Possibly not even an issue on your older machine if the HD is small (laptop from mid '90s I think you wrote). This can be solved by making a small (20-100 M) boot partition which just contains grub, vmlinuz and initrc.d. The bios sees grub, uses it to boot, and then it doesn't matter where eveything else sits.

    For grub info check out these (not in any order)
    http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux/gr ... HOWTO.html
    http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-mini/Mul ... -GRUB.html
    http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html
    http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/grub/grub.htm

    For more info on the topic in general, including my many silly questions as I was learning about this with gobs of help:
    http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... highlight=
    http://www.murga.org/~puppy/viewtopic.p ... 74&start=0

    I hope this helps. Please clarify what issue you have run into regarding not having internet connectivity and installing, maybe I'm not getting the question right.

    Fitzhugh

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Sit Heel Speak
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#4 Post by Sit Heel Speak »

Actually, I did not know that Puppy 2 has an "install Grub" feature; I simply downloaded Grub from the Internet. On my Win9x computer, grub.exe (unpacked from Grub4DOS) is stored on a FAT32 partition, and on the XP computer which I just took back for a refund I stored the MBR-altering version of Grub (installed from WinGrub) on an NTFS partition. Both ways worked just fine.

matelot
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#5 Post by matelot »

Many thanks for the comprehensive reply, guys. I'll read it through. :D

Of course, I forgot to mention, when I click on install to hda5 (ext3 partition) - mounted or unmounted - zilch happens as if the command doesn't exist... :? And when I try to run Gparted, that just sits as well...

I'll try again and wait, wait, wait...

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fitzhugh
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#6 Post by fitzhugh »

Hmm, I don't know what the problem with gparted or installing to that partition could be. Please try the other partition manager Pdisk (also under Menu -> Control Panel). It actually gives you a choice of two different partiton managers (fdisk or cfdisk). They don't use a real gui but I've read a few comments from people who've had some sort of trouble with gparted but not those, though I don't recall details.

Also, note that I was totally wrong[/] in stating that grub requires a linux partition. You can install it to the MBR (Master Boot Record) of the hard disk instead, in which case it doesn't matter how the disk is partitioned. I believe this also avoids the bios 1024 cylindar limitation (boot w/in 1st ~8.5 G) I mentioned above, though I've also read about being wary of messing with the mbr since screwing it up hoses the whole disk. I went with a boot partition and don't really know about using the MBR. Please read up on this before taking it in this direction.

When you start gparted, where does it get to before hanging? Does it open the window? If so, does the bar at the bottom move back and forth (like a progress bar, only it just bounces back and forth and doesn't show how far along it is in the process)? Perhaps it is getting stuck scanning the drive, which is what it is doing while that bar moves, and since both it and grub installer hang I'm guessing it is a problem with that partition, hda5. How did you create the partition? Does it have anything in it now, or has it been seen to work in the past? If it is an option how about trying to re-format it ext3 again using the other partition manager... that just might help (though once more I'll state I am just going on a couple week's experience with all this myself; you might get a saner answer from someone with a real clue, but I'll try).
Also try calling gparted from the command line in case that lets you see an error. I've found that often lets you see what is screwed up when clicking on an icon to start something fails... the errors don't always get piped to the screen.
Good luck!
Fitzhugh

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fitzhugh
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One more thing...

#7 Post by fitzhugh »

There is also a new version of grub out, called grub 2 and, confusingly, numbered grub 1.9x (1.94 currently). This is a much-extended complete rewrite, dumping the old spagetti code they say, which looks appealing. Only issue is a lack of full documentation so far - not there yet. From all I've seen grub legacy, as they call the 0.9x grubs, should be just fine as long as you just want to set up a simple multiboot. Grub 2 adds scripting, like loops and conditional logic, as well as a different interface and more conventional access to editing the files and other goodies. I went with the original simply because that way I could draw on more knowledge from people on this forum. Now that I know how to set it up, and because I'm going to be completely wiping my HDD as soon as I post this I'll try grub 2 when I set it all up again.

If you see no more posts from me after this then you know I totally hosed my drive and am stuck in limbo, though there is always multisession to fall back on! Ah, I can relax then. sorta. maybe.

fitzhugh

matelot
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#8 Post by matelot »

Clicking on the button does absolutely nothing, either to install to hda5, or to run Gparted.

I also spotted Pdisk, but clicking on that does... nothing. :?

Never had this sort of thing before. The old machine is a P2 350; ME on hda1, a separate ext3 partition (hda5), total 6.5 Gb: then hdb1 which I formatted as linux swap (1gb), and a 2Gb shared fat32 - total 3Gb.

Puppy Seamonkey is about the only distro which recognises the mouse on this old machine. Without a mouse, you know it's difficult. I also want to get Mrs Matelot onto Linux somehow, and a small distro like Puppy looked ideal, but I also want it on the hard drive so that Mrs Matelot can simply select her OS from grub when booting, rather than faff about booting from a LiveCD. There is no internet connection.

So the big problem is why no action from install, Gparted or Pdisk?

Any help greatly appreciated - and several attempts doesn't alter anything. Duff burn? Odd though, if it does everything else.

raffy
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Missing programs

#9 Post by raffy »

The only possible explanation to that is missing programs.

For every downloaded ISO, you should "md5sum name_of_ISO" in console to verify that it is the same md5 value posted in the download site. Then burn the ISO slowly (4X or 2X).

Your computer is old, and perhaps Puppy 1.09 can work in it. Look here for tutorial in hard drive install.

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fitzhugh
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#10 Post by fitzhugh »

Did I ask if you've tried running gparted from console? If not, please do. I've found that when things do nothing after clicking they usually are actually barfing back errors that are not sent to the screen. Also try clicking on the blue box with white numbers in the lower right corner in the toolbar that displays amount of free space in user file pup_save. One click will give a few choices, of which you want the bottom: Manage Running Processes. Scroll to the bottom and see if there is anything that looks like gparted running. Better yet, do this FIRST and review what is there then, leaving it open, try running gparted (and later try same with other failed apps), then open a second process list window by clicking on the blue numbers again... this way you can compare a before and after list side by side (instead of just clicking the scan button on the original list - I find side by side faster/easier to spot any oddities). Please let me know what you find, if anything. I'm sure this is frustrating but it probably can be solved with not too many steps to narrow it down.

Also, from what I keep reading that sounds like a very large swap partition. Usually see 2X ram, though perhaps you have 512 M in that box - was guessing not since you said it is old. What are the specs?

Is downloading a problem for you? If it turns out that the cd is bunk how hard will it be to download another? I would be surprised if that is the case, though, since as stated all the rest work. Still, it is really odd. How about trying the same live cd on another box and seeing if you can start gparted or the others? That could give a clue.
Fitzhugh

matelot
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#11 Post by matelot »

Thanks - I'll see what I can do with the advice. May be a few days down the road as some stone has fallen and I need to get new windows in - no, not THOSE Windows! :lol:

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