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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
CD RW wont boot after saving first setup on CD.
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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chris333242

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct 2011, 08:56    Post subject:  CD RW wont boot after saving first setup on CD.  

iso checksum was good, 528 booted onto a 2006 T42 thinkpad with XP pro
sp3. Went through the setup and saved to the same CDRW but now it will not boot.
Moved the CD to first in boot list in bios but was no help.
Am I supposed to discard the original CD and insert a new clean/blank CD RW when I get to 'save' after the setup ? ( its my first laptop with a burner- I have been saving to HDD or USB.)
Thanks to all who contribute to the most brilliant, elegant, little OS in the world.
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grebeman


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Location: south Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct 2011, 11:13    Post subject:  

I have used the save to CD and DVD facility a great deal over the last couple of years, Puppy happily makes its first save and indeed all subsequent saves to the CD or DVD used to initially boot up the system, so the answer to the question about replacing that CD with a blank one at the save screen is no.
However I am unable to offer any help as to why the CD will no longer boot, I certainly haven't experienced that problem.
I have at times had Puppy report the CD or DVD as not being able to be written to at shutdown for no apparent reason, but that would appear to be a differnet problem.

Barrie
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11165
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct 2011, 14:06    Post subject:  

Multisession doesn't seem to work as reliably in laptops as it does in desktops, or as well on CDs as it does on DVDs.

The CD drives in laptops don't seem to follow the same standards as the ones in desktops, and multisession capability was not originally part of the CD specification. Multisession was added to the CD specification after CD burners had been around for a while. So CD burners from different manufacturers and eras differ in how they implement multisession. Multisession was part of the DVD specification from the beginning, so all DVD drives seem to be able to do it.
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chris333242

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun 02 Oct 2011, 16:31    Post subject:  

" Multisession doesn't seem to work as reliably in laptops as it does in desktops "

Well youre right. I tried the same CDRW on a desktop and it booted OK, but not on the T42 that it was created on, or another T42.

What is the answer? Forget about trying to save to CD ?
I'd try DVD RW and see if that works but most (older) laptops dont have DVD RW.
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gcmartin


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct 2011, 10:06    Post subject:  

I have asked this question before of @Shinobar and others but have not gotten any answer. I'll try to articulate it again by presenting the scenario then the question. Actually this thread exhibits it.

Scenario
I have an ISO, I burn it, and I boot it on a laptop. Runs fine. Without ever using save session, I can reboot that Live media over and over again. But as soon as I do a save-session, the CD and DVD is corrupt and no longer boots.

Observaton
The RW seems to have the "timestamp" file that is to be used on reboot for repositioning user with all their prior work. All files "seem" normal by comparison with the ISO

Questions
  1. What file or table on the RW was corrupted in the save-session process that is now interrupting the boot process?
  2. Can the file or table be corrected, or can the boot files be reconstructed by anything?
Seems like there should be some what to capture all the work that was done in changes to the PUP OS by fixing the RW for its intended laptop use.

Thanks in advance for any answers or thoughts.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct 2011, 12:03    Post subject:  

Now my memory is not to rely on at all. Was it Barry or Beem
or you Flash that told that there are two kinds of DVD-RW
and that the DVD-RW + or the DVD-RW - was not equal in how
them accepted Puppy and that one of them was way better.

So maybe that is worth looking into if you happen to have both at home?

Edit. Reservation it could have been about the DVD-R+ and DVD-R-
I had both at home and tried all of them but not being systematic
I have no recall which was best on my computers.

Edit again. And my body has a vague notion that even how one blank
a DVD-RW is very important. That could be worth looking into.
What program you use to tell it to be blank could matter!

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gcmartin


Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4447
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 09 Oct 2011, 13:43    Post subject: If files are present can media be corrected after save-sessi  

Yes, Nooby there are 11 different issues that all fall under the same heading.

6 of them are media
  • cdr
  • cdrw
  • dvd-r
  • dvd+r
  • dvd-rw
  • dvd+rw
And they can be written or manipulated by the following 5 writer devices
  • Desktop
    1. CDRW
    2. DVDR+CDRW
    3. DVDRW
  • Laptops use low-profile devices
    1. DVDR+CDRW
    2. DVDRW
The questions I raised are about whether we can correct a written media for subsequent use on the laptop after the corruption may have occurred. All the necessary files seem to be present, but the Laptop fails in using them to boot after a Puppy save-session. Built-in to the questions is "do we know which file(s) was misaligned?"

Hope this helps

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 10 Oct 2011, 06:16    Post subject:  

Hope you can be patient with my naive proposal.

The only way to find out is to do meticulous tests.
To be very observant and write down whatever one do
until one have a good collection of Data to draw conclusions from.

or I guess you hope somebody have already done that? And happen
by pure whim to read this thread?

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chris333242

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 19:11    Post subject:  

This is way over my head, but a thought.... Am I right in assuming that the CD is written in sequence? Ie closer to the spindle/hole is the OS and then after that the config files are on the outer perimiter, after the OS ?
Then why does it not read the OS first and boot OK and then fail to read the
config/saved files burnt by the laptop ? Or is it that at 'SAVE' it re writes everything again from the RAM ? .. and makes a mess of it.
( As you can see I am a mechanic )
Please solve this someone, it would be an excellent feature to save to CD.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11165
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 22:02    Post subject:  

chris333242 wrote:
...Am I right in assuming that the CD is written in sequence? I.e., closer to the spindle/hole is the OS and then after that the config files are on the outer perimiter, after the OS ?
Yes
Quote:
Then why does it not read the OS first and boot OK and then fail to read the config/saved files burnt by the laptop?
Nobody really seems to know. Something is different about laptop CD drives. Have you checked to see if it's possible to update the CD drive's firmware?
Quote:
Or is it that at 'SAVE' it re writes everything again from the RAM ? .. and makes a mess of it.
No, each saved session is just the new stuff. Click on the CD icon in the lower left of your desktop to mount the multisession CD and you will see the various OS files plus the first saved session, displayed by ROX as a folder or directory. Inside that first saved session you will find the settings and so forth that will be used to configure the base Puppy after it boots. I also wondered why multisession Puppy boots by loading the last saved session first, working its way to the first saved session then the base OS. I was told that it was thought that the boot process would be faster that way. I actually modified the boot process of one Puppy iso to load the sessions from the CD in the order they were created. It made no noticeable difference in the time the CD (actually, DVD) took to boot.
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chris333242

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed 12 Oct 2011, 22:20    Post subject:  

What are you saying ? Its hopeless ??
We need an OS to run off into the bushes with Laughing
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 07:37    Post subject:  

Flash, how does he know if him set it up as a multi session in the first place? I am such a poor reader of text. I have an old CD/DVD maybe
with Puppy 4.0 from say 2008 but I have no DVD burner to check it up with.

I do remember that I could do multisession. Is that what our OP has?

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Flash
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PostPosted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 08:14    Post subject:  

Nooby, that's what he's trying to do.

Chris, try this: format a CD-RW (using Pburn, do a complete blank, not a fast blank. This will take a while.) Then burn the iso onto it using Puppy's Burniso2cd. See if multisession works then. That's about all I can think of to try.
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chris333242

Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 09:26    Post subject:  

Thanks Flash- extracted Pburn but it wont open/run - its asking which program to run. Ditto the burniso2cd - extracts as a .pet file and wont open/run.
I guess that these are Linux and wont run on Windows.
I'd load linux on another machine but will have to setup the CD to burn with linux. Was using the Alex Feinman windows program to burn the iso. Did not format the blank RW disc. Will have to do what you suggest when I have some time. Packing up the house to move right now. Wife is behind me all day. Thanks.
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11165
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Thu 13 Oct 2011, 09:49    Post subject:  

If the CD-RW you already burned will still boot to Puppy, do that (with the puppy pfix=ram boot option,) then either leave that CD-RW in the drive or put a different one in and use Menu -> Multimedia -> Pburn to blank it, then Menu -> Multimedia -> Burniso2cd to burn the iso onto it. If the iso is stored on a hard disk, I'd copy the iso from there into /tmp first, then have Burniso2cd use it from /tmp.
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