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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Developing FirstRUN for Puppy CD's initial boot
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Tue 20 Dec 2011, 08:17    Post subject:  

here is a screeny of my ~2s booting kernel - It has almost everything but the essentials to get to X with jwm and rxvt so for most people it will be just a toy ... ironically that is why I made it - so my kids can't accidentally bork something up (can't mount drives or access any networks - just play games)

If anyone is interested I can post my .config and a tarball of the initramfs

The bzImage (from 2.6.32.50 source) is only 1437k including the builtin Xvesa, jwm and rxvt ... so it should even fit on a floppy. (really I could get it down to ~1mb with a busybox recompile with only needed applets -- and could cut resource usage to as low as ~4mb)
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microsaurus.png


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Bert


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 928

PostPosted: Tue 20 Dec 2011, 16:07    Post subject:  

That's very impressive technosaurus!

Shouldn't the "everything" on the first line of your post be "nothing"? Or do I need extra English lessons Wink

Quote:
... ironically that is why I made it - so my kids can't accidentally bork something up (can't mount drives or access any networks - just play games)


Would love to have something similar for my girlfriend's box, with just eth0 and a browser.... would liberate her from her technofear (and liberate me, the repair man) Laughing

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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Tue 20 Dec 2011, 18:06    Post subject:  

Quote:
If anyone is interested I can post my .config and a tarball of the initramfs

The bzImage (from 2.6.32.50 source) is only 1437k including the builtin Xvesa, jwm and rxvt


YES , go ahead !

AFAIK it is possible to adjust the paths in the kernel config like path to uevent(helper) or /sbin/init .

I had been not aware of the possibility to compile Xvesa and others into the kernel, too .

I know there is the embedded feature in make menuconfig .
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 05:38    Post subject:  

Ok here it is, Puppy in <1mb in a single bzImage

Resource usage in X with jwm running and an rxvt terminal open:
MEMUSAGEKB=5020 (with background) 2892kb without background image

Resource usage at the console:
MEMUSAGEKB=2288

I wanted to see how far I could go so I ended up disabling even proc and sys, (which breaks top and ps) so I needed a way to get memory usage. I also replaced busybox with dash and mount from embutils (sh is used by rxvt which also needs /dev/pts so needed to mount a devpts) and just for grins i wrote my own init in C . I could get the resource usage down under 2Mb if jwm were compiled with only X11 with maybe xpm support and used st instead of rxvt

here is the code I wrote for memused
Code:
#include <sys/sysinfo.h>

int main(int argc, char **argv){
   struct sysinfo info;
   sysinfo(&info);
   printf("MEMUSEDKB=%d\n",(info.totalram - info.freeram)*info.mem_unit/1024);
}


here is my init code
Code:

#include <unistd.h>
#include <sys/wait.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

//these could be functions but gcc complains less this way
#define EGGSACKWEIGHT(a) ({int s,p;if((p=fork())==0){execvp(a[0],a);}else{while(wait(&s)!= p);}})
#define SHIFTN(i,a) ({ int j=0;while(a[j] != NULL){a[j]=a[j+i];j++;}})
#define EGGSACK(a)   ({if((fork())==0) execvp(a[0],a);})
int main(int argc, char** argv) {
//export PATH="/bin" HOME="/root" TERM="xterm /bin/sh" SHELL="/bin/sh" PS1="# " USER=root LOGNAME=$USER HISTSIZE=1000 HISTFILE="$HOME/.history" INPUTRC=/etc/inputrc
//setenv("PATH","/bin",1);
putenv("PATH=/bin");
putenv("HOME=/root");
putenv("TERM=xterm");
putenv("SHELL=/bin/sh");
putenv("PS1=#");
putenv("USER=root");
putenv("LOGNAME=root");
putenv("HISTSIZE=1000");
putenv("HISTFILE=/root/.history");
putenv("INPUTRC=/etc/inputrc");

char* X[99];
//mount devpts /dev/pts -t devpts
   X[0]="mount";
   X[1]="devpts";
   X[2]="/dev/pts";
   X[3]="-t";
   X[4]="devpts";
   X[5]=NULL;
   EGGSACK(X);

//Xvesa -screen 640x480x16 -nolisten tcp -tst -I &
   X[0]="Xvesa";
   X[1]="-screen";
   X[2]="640x480x16";
   X[3]="-nolisten";
   X[4]="tcp";
   X[5]="-tst";   
   X[6]=NULL;
   EGGSACK(X);

//script? ... try getenv("XINITRC") and getenv("HOME") + /.xinitrc

putenv("SHELL=/bin/sh");
putenv("DISPLAY=:0");

X[0]="jwm";
X[1]="-display";
X[2]=":0";
X[3]=NULL;
EGGSACKWEIGHT(X);

X[0]="killall";
if (argc>1) {
   X[1]="Xvesa"; //see above... maybe change to X
}else{
   X[1]="Xorg";
}

X[2]=NULL;
EGGSACK(X);

X[0]="sh";
X[1]=NULL;
EGGSACKWEIGHT(X);
}


I also commented this line in the kernel source (init/do_mounts.c) - the wait isn't needed here
Code:
   //wait_for_device_probe();
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PANZERKOPF

Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 11:41    Post subject:  

technosaurus wrote:
Ok here it is, Puppy in <1mb in a single bzImage

Have tested it. Whole boot process takes 0.5 Sec (or thereabout).
Seems kernel is filled with gunpowder.... Smile

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 12:02    Post subject:  

But what does it take then to make all the needed changes?
I feel so dense. If it is this easy then why don't the devs of
Lupu or slacko use part of it to speed up the boot of those OS?

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 13:58    Post subject:  

techno

Would I be right in saying microsaurus is only for playing games/videos?
Is it potentially useful as a puppy rescue tool on a floppy? i.e. can mount drives/partitions or edit/copy/paste things be added? Can any network/browser be added?
Do we just write/copy the image to floppy?
I like the sound of 1/2 second boot.... Very Happy

Aitch Smile
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 14:05    Post subject:  

Yes would be cool if you can make something like a rescue thing
for USB and CD/DVD but I don't mind if it works as frugal install on HD

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PANZERKOPF

Joined: 16 Dec 2009
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Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 14:17    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
Yes would be cool if you can make something like a rescue thing
for USB and CD/DVD but I don't mind if it works as frugal install on HD

This is a kernel with embedded root filesystem so it always boots "as frugal".
You can boot it from any device supported by BIOS and bootloader.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4277
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 19:33    Post subject:
Subject description: Q
 

@Techno
that's impressive for getting something booted in a box.

Now, could this be extended to a need (practical one) where I need a router service which runs the following fron X-desktop
  • DNSMASQ
  • Web server
  • full SAMBA server
in a 32MB RAM platform? I don't care about the ISO size as that is unimportant to me, I am only concerned about it running in RAM. And, it must be able to use USB storage, LAN Motherboard peripherals along with wireless

This is the smallest useful application platform I could think of for using a small system. (The web server is optional.)

Hmmm...
edited: (even though I envision practical use, to do this is probably not possible)

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 19:45    Post subject:  

PANZERKOPF wrote:
nooby wrote:
Yes would be cool if you can make something like a rescue thing
for USB and CD/DVD but I don't mind if it works as frugal install on HD

This is a kernel with embedded root filesystem so it always boots "as frugal".
You can boot it from any device supported by BIOS and bootloader.


I trust that my poor English made a misleading connotation
or what the word is.

I actually prefer that it is frugal. But your answer was very helpful.

Does that mean that instead of usung aufs? and Squash? it
only uses vmlinuz and initrd and as you say the root is imbedded.

I know almost nothing. My vague grasp is that vmlinuz is the kernel
and that initrd is a kind of script that read what grub menu.lst has to
offer as puppy code like pfix=ram and other such codes.
Then the init read scripts take care of a lot of things as an overlay
to the kernel.

So what you say is that instead of a big overlay that take a long time to
boot Technosarius has imbedded the "root" into that vmlinuz?

I guess that is what Tiny Core do too or similar? Them having to us
odd name for their two files. That can also boot frugally and are fast booting.

Anyway thanks for caring about me. Kudos to Technosarius for putting time into such experiments. Cool indeed

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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
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PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 20:44    Post subject:  

Quote:
Ok here it is, Puppy in <1mb in a single bzImage

Smile
Does this mean if I put the bzImage on a USB I was booting from I would go to desktop?
Could this be combined with a browser?
Is this ideal for known hardware, so for example for the Raspberry PI? (not yet available to any Puppy even by auction)
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM

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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 886

PostPosted: Wed 21 Dec 2011, 21:59    Post subject:  

Lobster wrote:
Quote:
Ok here it is, Puppy in <1mb in a single bzImage

Smile
Does this mean if I put the bzImage on a USB I was booting from I would go to desktop?


Lobster, Yes... I just tried that and made the mistake of blinking during boot and missed the entire event. Smile

Technosaurus, a really amazing piece of work... WOW.

Regards,
s
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4351

PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011, 02:27    Post subject:  

The funny thing is that even though this version has no usb support built in, it doesn't matter because once the usb bootloader hands it over the kernel doesn't yet know where it is, it just un-lzma's itself and runs.

As far as building upon it, you can use an initrd.lzma image similar to what puppy uses (an lzma'd cpio archive) for playing games or whatever without risk of damaging anything ... I am currently running it in qemu with:
qemu-system-i386 -kernel bzImage -cpu kvm32 -alt-grab
(I use the alt-grab so I can Ctrl+Alt+Backspace in it while running Xvesa/Xorg with "-nozap" )

Here is the asterisk:
it currently has no file system support other than initramfs
only very basic hardware support needed for Xvesa (no sound)
also no tcp support (thus no internet)
no module support, means none of this can be added without recompiling the kernel (it only takes a couple minutes)
it is basically allnoconfig + vesa framebuffer, vm86, devpts, initramfs, lzma, unix sockets + AT keyboard and ps2 mouse (with synaptic extensions)
I also did some expert level configuration to remove all the debugging and gnu-isms and used more sane values for things like the number of devpts (reduced from 512 to 16 to save ~8mb RAM usage) ... its all in the DOTconfig

Now that the asterisk is explained, it should be more straightforward to start adding things back to the kernel to support other options. For the web server with X, enable tcp in the kernel and put the webserver+content either directly into the initramfs or a separate initrd.lzma(s) ... you can't do it in qemu, but many bootloaders support multiple initrd's, so you could have additional initrd's for separate sites etc... could be good for a web browser too
I will likely test internet stuff with dillo1 when I do my gtk1 build using minimum profit text editor, dillo, emelfm, Xdialog, mtpaint and aumix... will only add ~1Mb + maybe .5mb for the needed kernel options and support files... the hardest part will be figuring out how to set up my puppy qemu host so that I can connect.

btw, does anyone know the "record" for fast booting?

Edit: almost forgot to mention arm ... yes, arm could be done in a similar way using qemu and Rob Landley's cross compilers - just change the arch from 586 to arm[*] in the kernel - nothing else is platform specific AFAIK except maybe vesa, but you will also want usb, usbhid and usb mouse for the Pi.

Last edited by technosaurus on Thu 22 Dec 2011, 03:01; edited 1 time in total
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Lobster
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 22 Dec 2011, 03:00    Post subject:  

Quote:
I will likely test internet stuff with dillo1


Ah thanks guys.
Beginning to get a handle on this.
This is part of the original remit of Saluki? Puppy remastered.

I very much hope we see this (or something similar on the Raspberry Pi)
We need that minimalism. We need that fast booting. We need our smartest dogs.

A fast booting dillo, that I could use and impress mermaids with . . .
Bravo

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