Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

[john biles]

Hello Everyone,
In the coming weeks you should see the release of Legacy OS 4 Mini.
For those using TEENpup 2010 Mini Beta this update will be most welcomed.

[oligin10]

Hi John, eagerly waiting for Legacy OS 4 Mini. Still running TeenPup Mini 2010. Thanks, Rob

[john biles]

Hello Everyone,
Almost there, ironing out the last few bugs.
Not long to Go!

[Puppyt]

Thanks for the update John! I love TPMB 2010 on my ruggedised Toshiba Portégé 3480CT, P3 (600MHz), 196MB RAM. It still has the Win98SE license sticker on it, but after I upgraded the HD to a 160GB 7200x model, with TPMB whups most of my colleagues' off-the-shelf modern netbooks in performance. Looking forward to your release on the upgraded (?) Puppy base,
Cheers

[john biles]

Hello Puppyt,
You'll have to do a reinstall as TEENpup 2010 Mini Beta won't just update to Legacy OS 4 Mini. I'm planning a small update of Legacy OS 2 to Legacy OS 2.1 which I'm hoping to release as a update tar.gz for those running already running Legacy OS 2 as well as a new iso.

As a long term user what 5 things do you like about TEENpup 2010 Mini as well as the 5 things that drive you crazy about it.

Each answer only would need to be a couple sentences long and your feedback could find its way in to the upcoming release.

When I hear Users like yourself are using TEENpup / Legacy long term It inspires me to keep developing. If I felt no one really found TEENpup / Legacy OS useful, I would stop.

[Puppyt]

Late with my homework again

Happy New Year to All, and especially you, John, waiting patiently for my response.
I've been mulling over your post for a few days now and I don't know if I can comply with a 10-point critique zigactly for TEENpup 2010 Mini Beta (TPMB) - and especially not for 5 "craze-inducing Cons"

First a disclaimer - I've been moving to research-based software such as 'R' (statistical environment), Zotero Standalone (ex FireFox add-on - bibliography and bookmarking), Docear (FreeMind+pdf management), and CowLog (scoring of filmed animal behaviours) - and have been spending most of my puppy-time with the DPUP avenue in the belief that I would have fewer installation problems and most would work OOTB in Puppy - as far as Debian-like support is concerned. Plus, my desktop preferences have moved from total bling to spartan, so with the exception of CowLog dependencies, KDE and Karamba haven't been my preferred working environment. Alas, the year hasn't been great for juggling fledgling career, family (including funerals) and full-time study - on top of floods*.

In short, my time with TPMB hasn't been consistent but in review:
1. I feel that it should be REALLY highlighted for any newcomers to the Puppy universe that "If you are new to Linux - try TEENpup first". You've made extraordinary efforts to include extensive Help, Hints and advice throughout your distros. From detailed explanation of those zany (? sometimes daunting or uninviting) application names in the Menu, right through to your encyclopedic Tips library - and not forgetting that you've used super-stable KDE 3.5.7 that was time-tested not to break the spirit of Linux newbies - this is a SERIOUSLY well-thought out bit of kit.
(Though all of your distros that I've tried are - and I know I'm on the record as a bit of a fan of your hand-crafting.)

2. KDE? Who is going to quibble resource usage (compared to openbox, fluxbox etc) when it comes to user-friendliness, tweaked applications (KOffice, Konqueror, KGet, ketc ketc.) - especially when a new user is in the process of cutting the cord from the claustrophobic Windows womb. So I hope you might be using Trinity (3.5.13ish) in the rebooted Mini...

3. I was using XPpro on the same machine (Satellite Portégé laptop). It became blisteringly hot after a short while of normal usage, while a reboot into TPMB kept the temperature blissfully tolerable after, and during, even longer usage. Proof I guess of Puppy's superior efficiency - even given the smarter bootup/shutdown and app start times. The direct consequence is a longer-lasting laptop, not land-fill (and not thighs given third-degree toastings at the expense of a battered battery)

4. Opera. While I have kept my operamail.com email account (now fastmail) going since I started using Opera in the late nineties, I gradually migrated to FF mainly because of the add-ons (e.g., Zotero). I found that accessing my olde account was a snap and I'm still exploring about the abilities of the new Opera. The learning curve is pretty painless and intuitive though, I must say, so I *might* be happy to give away the FF bloatware in due course. I can't see how I might have multiple copies of Opera-10 open simultaneously e.g., drag a FF tab to the desktop to open the separate window - and certainly not running on separate desktops. Is this Opera-specific or something constrained in TPMB?

5. Desktop management. I can't find where the particular 'trigger' is to enable easy dragging of an open window across virtual desktops (in jwm - see next point), when arranging mutliple applications being worked on simultaneously. This is true of all of my attempts in different pupplets where it isn't standard behaviour. Some sort of border binding? I really think that for use in netbooks, the functionality for flipping fluidly between windows in any wanted wm is foremost (though others fail to find it fruitful)

6. Spartan desktop. I might have missed it, but making the doppleganger switch from ICEwm to jwm isn't clear - especially if you aren't aware of the wm that you're currently in. Indeed I only stumbled across it trying to establish mutliple desktops in the ICEwm environment. Once I got into jwm, it was a doddle to configure the extra desktops - delightful to see a pinboard-less desktop default with panels for icons, apps and widgets well-positioned. Crucial for small-screen lappies, thankyou (!), and how I'm preferring to work in either netbook or wide-screen real estate.

7. Extraneous Applications. Now your point is certainly well made from the get-go - at least two applications with overlapping abilities are loaded with TEENpup, in case of hardware/kernel conflicts. Once the user is familiar with their preferred/functioning application (or has installed another preferred choice) - might you include something along the lines of "Remove built-in application", or uninstall options (is that difficult for Kapplications?)? I wouldn't know whether this would streamline performance if someone wanted a TPMB-lite, but at present it seems difficult to me to be able to remove unwanted apps, such as games...

8. Hope I'm not too contentious here, but the stock-standard Puppy Linux games are a tired selection. Potato-guy, Rubix cube, Sabre (totally borks the 3480CT ) Shisen-Sho etc are getting a bit passe. Yes, I'm aware that they are super-small, GPL etc. and avoid 3rd-party issues like java and flash... but if you could provide support/help for java/flash -based games (will they run "native" in Opera, for example?) that would be fabulous. Would that assist the user-friendly modularity that you've always been striving for, at the expense of unwanted 3rd-party bloat?

9. Have Frisbee, Will Travel? I haven't personally been successful with any non-Frisbee configuration of automatic eduRoam reconnection - which, due to my university requirements - is pretty essential. Will you consider including Frisbee / wi-fi encryption tunnelling functionality in the reboot?

10. Is there a bandwidth upload/download meter widget available (especially useful for us rural suckers on BigSwamp 3G wi-fi. Where are you, NBN??)?

So, in conclusion I hope I've been able to outline the yin/yang issues that I've been having with TPMB. Given my sliding-scale of interests and your specific audience I'm not sure what you might find particularly useful in my "wish list", especially as I haven't put most of the applications/options through the wringer in the time that I've had with it.
Despite my personal hiccups, TPMB has been an absolute pleasure to use - which I regret can't be said for many other best-intentioned pupplets that I've flirted with this last year.

Please Keep Up the Great Work!


* and partly to blame for me not getting around to LegacyOS2.0 - all my machines have partitions for mutliple frugal-installs of wind:(ws and P:)ppy, and I didn't get around to the full install preferred for your other project.

[john biles]

Hello Puppyt,
What can I say!
I will study your homework and thank you for taking the time to provide this feedback, Excellent!

[Puppyt]

P.S.
...and on quick review of my earlier post, I see that I had forgotten to mention FABULOUS Magicscript and, if I'm not muchly mistaken - your TeenPup Control dialogues pre-date radky's PupControl and PupApps. Top Stuff
Check out about page 45 of the "Newbies - Puppy needs YOUR help too!" thread, I think that TEENpup/LegacyOS is aimed right at the level requested by the posters new to Puppy. Recurring issues are raised again there as they have earlier in that very thread (and heck, even I have posted requests on improvements to the install process - can't remember where) but I frankly struggle to think of a pupplet that bridges the knowledge divide as helpfully as TEENpup.

(Well, there is Legendofthor's Puppy3-based "TLC" that does it too, but was overtaken by hardware/kernel/software issues and I'm not sure he's confident of a widespread beta release )

[john biles]

Hello Puppyt,
Now that I've had time to read your feedback properly (Been at Work) I can let you know that Firefox 5 is included (will update to 9 by itself). KDE will remain at 3.5.7 for the next release. Your ideas on highlighting if your using JWM or ICEWM and being able to remove games etc have given me a couple of ideas to look in to.

You listed a number of Applications you need to use. Any links to their homepages.

Again thank you for providing the feedback I requested. Much appreciated

[Puppyt]

Thanks for your response, John -
with regards the applications of MY interest, I reckon I'd be hijacking your thread as I have others here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=517526#517526, here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=519344#519344, and here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=557654#557654, not forgetting here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=504081#504081. So I'm becoming a serial pest in that regard - just haven't been able to get my ducks in a row lately to DIY. (Reckon I might change my puppyforum user name to "Don Coyote", I've tilted at so many windmills unsucessfully )

Geoffrey very kindly made a pet for SciPlore15, but since then the SciPlore team have developed Docear http://docear.org/ (I have the alpha, as a registered user - but racing to get some paid research projects completed so haven't tested yet). Docear's designed to work with FoxIt Reader (3rd party shenanighans) and preserve any annotations, links etc made in the PDF libraries, by the researcher.
With regards to the eduRoam connectivity issue, sc0ttman has kindly offered to keep an eye on the issue I raised here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=540043#540043, though I have just found that Qopzeep posted an eduRoam how-to here http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=564672#564672. (Doh!) I'm happy with my cobbled-together setup now, but I bet other/new users would appreciate a eduRoam pet or simple connectivity option in the Menu.

But more for your general audience, might you consider pdf editing like pdfshuffler http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=334633#334633? And this perennial chestnut: What about including an option in your TEENpup/LegacyOS Control to enable activation of the Win key functionality (keybindings) to assist new converts from Windows? http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=316885#316885/ http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=316802#316802,http://productivity.ben61a.com/windows/windows-7-shortcut-keys.php

Me back to wurk, werk - another windmill on the horizon

[Roy]

John,

May I please add my voice to those who desire a Frisbee wireless connect option? I very frequently find myself running your LegacyOS2 as a live CD because of your magic scripts and plinej's ripping tools, but cannot run Legacy full time because of no connectivity to the outside world. (My sole connectivity is via an ad-hoc wireless link to my rooted android cell-phone, and ONLY Frisbee reliably fulfills that function in Puppy.)

-Roy

[john biles]

Hello Puppyt,
All your links provided gave me a pretty good idea of what your trying to do.
This is a unique puplet in itself. TEENpup / Legacy OS 4 would have to move up to Puppy version 5.2.5 min as it base to have any chance of achieving what your looking for. This would require months of work part time to achieve as well as the desire required to find and fix problems only someone who really believed in the project could give.

That person is you!! Don't think you can do it? Well here's how.

I'll use Magic Scripts as an example. I required some code for it, I knew what the code had to do but no idea on how to do?

So I asked the question on the forum for 1 line of code to do the task.
As the question was so generic the forum member had no idea what it was going to be used in and I guess to this day they still don't realize how helpful their 1 line of code was. Without it there would be no Magic Scripts.

Sometimes it's the way you ask for help which makes all the difference.

Hello Roy.
As Legacy OS 2 is now based on a Kernel / System that is now 5 years old, there is little chance of Frisbee working in it.

Puppyt and Roy,
Because of your feedback, once Legacy OS 4 has been released, I'll look into making Magic Scripts available as a tar.gz to run on other Puppy's.

[Puppyt]

Thanks John for your earlier pointers - sorry that I hadn't responded sooner. Most helpful was your suggestion on a base that is >5.2.5. I had hoped for a kernel that would handle older machines more easily, but I realise that I would be trying to fly before I have even learned to crawl properly.
It seems, now, that I *may* have extra time in coming months to start looking at a 'dogsbody' project with intent, just have to clear a month's worth of research project deadwood away first, otherwise I will not achieve anything.
Thanks again for your advice

P.S. and a Magic Scripts application would be a very useful addition to my cunning plans... good news, thank you!

[john biles]

Hello those waiting For Legacy OS 4 Mini,

Well it's nearly the end of January so where's the ISO you might ask?

It's been delayed, you see my problem is I want to give Legacy OS 4 Mini Users the best experience I can.

What happens is I start by saying to myself "Lets give it a quick update and release it" trouble is this quick update turns in to something more. I then have the need to make something far better then originally planned.

Some of the Highlights that will be in the ISO when released.

Latest Flash
Java 1.6.30
Extra Codecs
Firefox 5 (will update itself to 9.0.1)
Better version of FFmpeg over TEENpup 2010 Mini Beta

It looks like the ISO will be around 500mb's in size, I may change the name to just Legacy OS 4.

I'm pushing hard to get the ISO released as soon as I can.

[JIGNESH_MODI]

if u make window installer like ubuntu, this will be very usefull