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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec 2011, 20:23    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
The big companies owning the clouds will force us to see ads or to pay for to not see the ads..


Right (imho).

Get the damn cloud app out of puppy!

I wish, i could make my LazY Puppy 528 unable to install and/or run cloud apps. Very Happy

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2XL

Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 26 Dec 2011, 23:27    Post subject:  

I respectfully disagree with the OP.

Personally, the PC will never die for me. Not ever. I play games, I have over 3000 games with 99% of them being PC only (no console version). I'm not interested in playing these games on "the cloud" or a tablet, even if it were possible, which it isn't and won't be, not for existing titles. Even newer titles - I want them on my PC.

I use a PC - a desktop PC. I am a true nerd in that I use a PC to.. "use a PC". So in other words I don't have a specific need for a PC, but want to use one anyway. PC's are my life and what I do. I don't do anything else. I want to run Linux (and even Windows) on my PC, not on "the cloud", tablet or netbook.

For everyone else: Puppy is targeting older PC's, especially for people (like me) who cannot afford new systems. These "cloud" and tablet/mobile systems cost money which some people simply don't have. Puppy is perfect for these people. In fact, if what the OP says is true (which it isn't, sorry), then Puppy is even more relevant because desktop PC's will be dirt cheap since everything would be in the cloud or mobile. For those who cannot afford or do not want a cloud or mobile system, then Puppy and a cheap desktop would be perfect.

Connectivity: "The Cloud" will never take off properly until the entire planet, at least all developed countries, have access to true broadband. When I say all, I mean 100%. Many people are still stuck on dialup or other form of narrowband, even in expensive housing estates in the cities. I see it all the time. Until this changes, "the cloud" and even mobile computing will not have any chance of replacing the desktop. Puppy is perfect for those on dialup or other form of narrowband, better than modern Windows which has issues with many dialup modems.

Tasks: There are some tasks that "the cloud" and mobile computing are simply not good at. This will probably never change, desktops will always have a use.

Cheers.
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3.1416

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 16:08    Post subject:  

The future of Puppy is not related to metal and plastic boxes. The future is related to virtual RAM. It is hardware that is going away.
Puppy will carry any message you want to send or receive. Formats will become history. If you receive media then you can use it because Puppy wrote it, and Puppy arrives with it. Puppy will carry its virtual Ram with it. When Puppy arrives at any media device it will manifest itself. The arrival of Puppy will be the arrival of a virtual PC that will run on any RAM that it can find. If Puppy finds the virtual RAM on another virtual PC then it will use it. Puppy will live on the WWW, and it will take its hardware resources from the web. That is the whole point of Puppy. It has already booted out the hard drive. Booting out the RAM is next. Puppy will arrive,boot instantly, and the user will not even notice it. For example, the RAM on a monitor could be used. The RAM on a cell phone could be used. The RAM on a cloud network could be used. The RAM on a TV set could be used. Puppy will become the first virtual PC that moves at the speed of light.
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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 17:31    Post subject:  

3.1416 wrote:
Booting out the RAM is next. Puppy will arrive,boot instantly, and the user will not even notice it. For example, the RAM on a monitor could be used. The RAM on a cell phone could be used. The RAM on a cloud network could be used. The RAM on a TV set could be used. Puppy will become the first virtual PC that moves at the speed of light.
umm, no
Funny if it was an exaggeration, but RAM is _RAM_ and the "cloud" is too slow to replace it even for several iterations of bandwidth doubling which doesn't even seem to keep pace with Moore's law (mostly due to corporate carriers). Still would need a place to store a bootstrap environment - nonvolatile RAM has its own issues (if you bork your system - that's it)

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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 18:52    Post subject:  

So, everybody want a new 60 inch TV set for their living room, buying a desktop PC with something smaller than a 20 inch screen is not very likely. I cannot afford it, but it shure would be nice to be able to do so.

I wear glasses, and I am sadly getting into that part of life when I need reading-glasses as well.

What the f... can I do with a smartphone with it's tiny 2,5-3 inch screen? I cannot read anything without putting the damned thing up under my nose, it is not very likely going to be a tool for work or research for many of us. Photoshop or Gimp? You gotta be joking! And the cost for buying and using it? Hah! A pad of some sorts? OK for a short time, but just until the batteries start getting worn out.

I have Debian installed on a HD in a desktop machine, but i more and more rely on my dpup-485 live-CD/DVD for daily chores. Can be pushed into any disk player everywhere! Desktop machines will be the backbone in research facilities and workplaces for many years still, but they may change in shape and equipment as new gadgets emerge. I don't mind being called old-fashioned, and I sure look forward to find some of the big, powerful desktop machines that the gadget people have to get rid of anytime soon now. They will keep my puppys going forever!

Happy new year to you all.

Tallboy
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ilanrab


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec 2011, 21:42    Post subject:  

2XL wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the OP.
Personally, the PC will never die for me.

The PC will not "die" for many people. The issue has to do with numbers of devices.
All one has to do is extrapolate, using history. Supercomputers, Mainframes, Servers (used to be Minicomputers), Desktop, Laptops...
What's next? TABLETS.
The PC will remain at its level in the hierarchy, but the number of tablets will dwarf the number of PCs around. Real soon. You don't believe it? Just take a look at how many PCs there are around vs. the number of mainframes. That will give you a clue.
The sheer variety of tablet devices will also be impressive. X86, AMD, ARM, screen sizes, "transformers", pocket, etc...
As far as puppy goes... that depends on what the developers feel like doing.
Cheers!

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 02:56    Post subject:  

ilanrab wrote:
2XL wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the OP.
Personally, the PC will never die for me.

The PC will not "die" for many people. The issue has to do with numbers of devices.
All one has to do is extrapolate, using history. Supercomputers, Mainframes, Servers (used to be Minicomputers), Desktop, Laptops...
What's next? TABLETS.
The PC will remain at its level in the hierarchy, but the number of tablets will dwarf the number of PCs around. Real soon. You don't believe it? Just take a look at how many PCs there are around vs. the number of mainframes. That will give you a clue.
The sheer variety of tablet devices will also be impressive. X86, AMD, ARM, screen sizes, "transformers", pocket, etc...
As far as puppy goes... that depends on what the developers feel like doing.
Cheers!


if an affordable x86 tablet with say a 8 - 10" screen is released then you could pretty much run normal puppy on it, maybe with whatever needs to be installed to use the touchscreen.

if there is ever a virtual keyboard that uses some touchscreen aware ncurses or something so you can use it at the console not in a X session then this would be so awesome.
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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Sun 01 Jan 2012, 13:26    Post subject:  

Quote:
if there is ever a virtual keyboard that uses some touchscreen aware ncurses or something so you can use it at the console not in a X session then this would be so awesome.


Have a look at touchcal...it is in need of support/development

http://touchcal.sourceforge.net/

see also http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-playscreen/

Else, ask someone who does bacon/python to 'knock something up'

Aitch Smile
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Sky Aisling


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Port Townsend, WA. USA

PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan 2012, 20:37    Post subject: A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Subject description: Las Vegas Convention 2012
 

Consumer Electronics Association Says Devices Getting Simpler

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204124204577149320992712052.html

Quote:
Thin and light computers will also be a big attraction, he said, alongside the tablet computers that were the talk of last year's show.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2012, 20:07    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
if an affordable x86 tablet with say a 8 - 10" screen is released then you could pretty much run normal puppy on it, maybe with whatever needs to be installed to use the touchscreen.


I am actualy old enough to have used an old 'portable' Mac SE30 with it's built-in 9 inch b/w screen as my personal machine - I still have the carrying bag, while my IIsi business machine had a huge 12" monitor with 8-bit color. Those were the times, no need to go back there!

If we talk about the future for puppylinux, I really don't see the point in having a tablet, with a tiny 8-9" screen, as your only computer, unless the following criteria is met: you're young, you have perfect eyesight, you only use it for facebook, twitter or other social media, to do a quick lookup with a browser and to maintain your addressbook; i.e. manage your social life - if a virtual life is a life at all, that is... (yeah, yeah, I'm probably just an old fart) All of those things you can also do with a smartphone, and then you can take pics too.

I can see why people only having a big, static desktop PC want to have a tiny. portable extra machine for mobility. At the same time, it would be very interesting to know, at what point the user of a tablet, or similar tiny gadget, would want to use a desktop PC?

Unfortunately, I think that only the existing puppy users/fans will care if any of these gadgets run puppylinux. I have a feeling that the puppy community is too small to develop fancy applications/apps fast enough for anyone to bother, and the majority of tablet users will probably not want something else than a mainstream OS running on their tablet.

I have observed the trends over the last years, where laptops and tablets/pads, smartphones and cameras kind of overlap each other, and I guess we will continue to see some very creative development within those segments, that will erase the borders between them even faster. But if we look at a similar development in cameras, you still have the pro photographers dragging around those massive SLRs with a 2 foot tele lens, despite all the new tiny mega-zoom cameras popping up every hour, bristling with functions you'll never use.
There will still be a need for tools for all segments, and as long as you need to use a PC as a tool for daily work or research, I think there will be desktop machines in some form around, probably with some fancy 3-D screen, and other not-yet-thought-of gizmos attached, and also some ordinary laptops. They will all be perfect for running puppylinux - as we know it today - as well.

The present battery technology is the major brake in the development of machine technology. Any new, smart battery technology will turn the whole business upside down in seconds, and make this discussion obsolete immediately!

If I knew how the personal PCgadget market would evolve, I'd be filthy rich, but I can see the possible need to develop a puppy based on - or integrating with - any language running on all tiny phones/machines. I think they will continue developing separately - and much faster - than the languages and systems used in any major OS. That will probably also demand that puppylinux move into a new software developer position, rather than mainly adapting/shrinking existing software, as is done today. That may limit the number of puppys offered to that market segment, and the competition will be tough. There are a lot of brilliant kids out there, already working on the next generation gadgets.

But then again, I know that all speculations in future trends in this field over the years, have proven to be just that; speculations!

I just realized that my little 2¢ turned into a novel, sorry 'bout that!

tallboy
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 17:23    Post subject:  

If x86 tablets where produced, even with a 7" screen BUT it also has a monitor port (alot of tablets have hdmi) and USB, then you dont have to worry about the small screen if you plug into a monitor, and you can use your normal mouse and keyboard with it.
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 01:56    Post subject:  

Quote:
If x86 tablets where produced, even with a 7" screen BUT it also has a monitor port (alot of tablets have hdmi) and USB, then you dont have to worry about the small screen if you plug into a monitor, and you can use your normal mouse and keyboard with it.


I agree, but if your only computer is a tablet, you don't have a normal mouse, keyboard and monitor, do you? Laughing

Seriously, yes, that is an excellent solution, I did not intend to be disrespectful, sickgut. But with that solution, I feel that we are referring to only one of the user groups I described, those who already has a desktop PC or two as their main tool, and only uses a tablet for small tasks, because of the mobility aspect. If my hands and fingers were smaller, and my vision 20-20, I would be in that group myself, along with the majority of puppy users, I guess. I have some old laptops without working batteries, to prove it!

I fear that those who use a tablet only, are probably not aware of the existence of puppylinux at all, and to catch them, a puppy will have to be spectacular!

I also think many companies will develop simple solutions for sale and service specifically for tablets, as an example there are already specially designed pads used by most transporters and mailmen, to get an electronic confirmation for making a delivery in time. As the prices will fall, the tablet will be a resonably priced tool, perhaps better covering some of the functions put into a relatively expencive pad, or a phone app, today. There are also schools here in Norway letting pupils pay a small fee to rent a tablet, after 3 years they own it. (No standing screen on a laptop to hide behind - a teacher's dream!) The major problem we face then, is the same as for the dominance of MS today, a company or institution will demand one OS only to run on their tablets, probably licenced to the one with most developers around... Rolling Eyes

At least until the new, sensational 3D puppyboard© comes along, eventually...

Tallboy
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ilanrab


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 04:10    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
ilanrab wrote:
2XL wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the OP.
Personally, the PC will never die for me.

The PC will not "die" for many people. The issue has to do with numbers of devices.
All one has to do is extrapolate, using history. Supercomputers, Mainframes, Servers (used to be Minicomputers), Desktop, Laptops...
What's next? TABLETS

if an affordable x86 tablet with say a 8 - 10" screen is released then you could pretty much run normal puppy on it, maybe with whatever needs to be installed to use the touchscreen.

That issue has to do with the Wintel monopoly.
When the two companies decide that they want to compete in the mid to low end tablet market, then there will be wintel x86 tablets at the right price. It's a question of "when", not a question of "if".

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Aitch


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6825
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 16:45    Post subject:  

Tallboy
There are many X86, core2duo/Atom powered tablets on the market which will run puppy, and I've seen video of touchscreen working too, so we won't get totally missed out, until Parm or similar is developed by Puppy devs

Look at the Eros 2, or Apple knockoff, for example, or these

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Desktops-and-Notebooks/Intel-AtomPowered-Tablets-Netbooks-on-Display-at-IDF-439051/

hdmi ports bring SOPA regulation/DRM control into their hands...beware!

http://puppylinux.info/topic/another-reason-sopa-is-a-bad-idea-the-industry-are-going-to-war-to-free-video-streaming

Aitch Smile
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Sky Aisling


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Port Townsend, WA. USA

PostPosted: Wed 29 Feb 2012, 14:37    Post subject: A true concern about the very future of Puppylinux
Subject description: Raspberry Pi credit-card sized Linux PCs
 

Hi,
The Raspberry Pi credit-card sized Linux PC is out as of today.
Looks like we have another Linux PC to play with?

I have started another thread about the Raspberry Pi at this address:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76404

Here are the references to the Raspberry Pi announcement:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/29/raspberry-pi-credit-card-sized-linux-pcs-are-on-sale-now-25-mo/

http://www.cultofmac.com/149445/raspberry-pi-now-on-sale/

Edit: here's more:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/03/zemlin-praises-25-linux-computer-a-windows-license-costs-more-than-four-raspberry-pis.ars
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