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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 22:35    Post subject: Re: Re-naming
Subject description: Suggestions...
 

SouthPaws wrote:
I wonder what would've happened if Pussy was just renamed... Shocked

Some (more) suggestions...

pussyfoot linux/pup
puss-n-boots linux/pup
sourpuss linux/pup...


How about sickgut linux ?
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Amgine


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 233
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 23:15    Post subject:  


Cat In The Bag by Tygart, on Flickr

My Cat Very Happy not really a dog person, accept for Puppy.
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harii4


Joined: 30 Jan 2009
Posts: 444
Location: La Porte City, IA , U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 01:41    Post subject:  

@sickgut

You might be interested in what Big_Bass is working on :
Quote:
later I will use linux live scripts so that the live base will be 100%
distro compatible with the big brother linux
this would allow any distro to be used (slackware ,debian,arch ....)

then use home made packages for the light experience
like the community custom built for puppy

why not just use a script to make a live cd
then any distro could be used
thats what the linux live scripts do !


might want to stick around longer? Smile

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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 02:51    Post subject:  

Quote:
a question of time

Jim the Dancer (see 12 Jan 2012)
http://tmxxine.tumblr.com/
has come from who knows where in little more than
an outsider art project and a large hat Shocked

. . . Imagine what he can do with a little help . . . Very Happy

meanwhile in another reality
Quote:
I'll release a small Linux OS for the raspberry, using the Debian that can be provided with it as a base, and make it as puppy like as I can... altho this isn't a puppy, it will give you all a guide
sickgut

That is from here
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PARM
[shrug]
keep in touch
Puppy will be here . . .
Nobody is trying to box you
Amgine wrote:
Take a break, but don't go!

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 03:59    Post subject: Re: Re-naming
Subject description: Suggestions...
 

SouthPaws wrote:
I wonder what would've happened if Pussy was just renamed... Shocked

Some (more) suggestions...

pussyfoot linux/pup
puss-n-boots linux/pup
sourpuss linux/pup...

Another thought; how about a re-naming contest, whereby you stipulate your must haves... (ex. must include puss or pussy in name)
and you open it up to the community to make their suggestions... and then they vote. Wink

You just might stimulate/re-stimulate interest... who knows what that could lead to. I say give it a shot. What do you think, is it too late...? Sad


There was a discussion about the name in the thread.
I don't know about Sickgut, but before we make a vote about changing the name, I think we should vote something else first:

Is really the name Pussy linux holding back the help of puppy developers?

My opinion about the name is this:

Shakespeare wrote:
JULIET

'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 06:16    Post subject:  

Quote:
You might be interested in what Big_Bass is working on :
Quote:
later I will use linux live scripts so that the live base will be 100% distro compatible with the big brother linux
this would allow any distro to be used (slackware ,debian,arch ....)

then use home made packages for the light experience
like the community custom built for puppy

why not just use a script to make a live cd
then any distro could be used
thats what the linux live scripts do !



Wow hope many Devs help him out so it get done
within my lifetime.

Is it a huge project I mean does it take many many "Man Hours" to accomplish?

To the name of Pussy.


I can personally accept the name but I know that many "sensitive" people would not like it. Some of these bark
at Puppy too.

Sickgut suggested? that it was "ego" that hold the Puppy
devs back.

I know that I am very self centered and maybe that
makes me all EGO even but I rather trust what IguLeder
wrote. Ooops I have forgot what he did actually say but the meaning was that Debian is not Puppy. Here we do only Puppy. Something like that. Yes I have used search

Another clue. I wrote at Linux Questions that Porteus (Slax Remixed Community version" where based on Slackware.

The Devs of Slackware got very upset and did not what to
help with Porteus in their threads over there.

I don't trust it has to do with ego or even EGO.

More like "Not our Brand name" a kind of solidarity with
one's own chosen Brand of Distros?

Haha Like when Christians don't want to mess with Amida Buddha. Smile

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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 06:51    Post subject:  

jpeps wrote:
jemimah wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:

and really that isn't what puppy is about, its about having a minimalistic operating system that can handle most everyday uses,

getting compiled apps there really is mostly for newbee's, they come with a lot of extra deps, kind of like gparted puppy static mmlibs vs Ubuntu shared libs, the Ubuntu package is around 3-4 times larger with all the same features, we get creative to reduce package sizes, where as Ubuntu anything goes, usually puppy packages are 10-300% smaller.



I have to agree with Ttuuxxx. Puppy stops being puppy if you add a bunch of lard to it. What makes Puppy great is the attention to resource usage that only Puppy devs can achieve. Combining Puppy with other distro's packages is like combining a monastery with a carnival.

(Not that the PPM doesn't need a bit of work)


Running apps from other distros would require having all the same resources. My preference is generally to do a fresh compile when I need something not already present...which isn't too often. I generally avoid gnome whenever possible.


the problem with all this is that newbies cant compile their own stuff etc.
and the small group of puppy devs simply cant add to a stable repo all the stuff that other major OSes have. And there is a new version of Puppy it seems every few months and therefore a new repo that needs working on.

Yes ive started with a base thats not Puppy, but i can be made to look and work the same, while retaining 100% compatibility with the debian repos. There is no reason that Pussy couldnt be changed to be indistinguishable from a normal Puppy to the user, while keeping its apt-get or synaptic debian compatibility. RAM use is no more (pussy uses less than Puppy) its no slower and if you consider the amount of dependencies etc in Pussy, its no larger than Puppy either.

I just dont know why we cant have the best of both worlds, and all Pussy needs is someone who knows about the various apps and scripts etc with the rox filer and JWM and Xorg etc that Puppy uses and we can port it to Pussy. I just dont know why its so blasphemous.

The last couple of years Puppy has bounced around, between ubuntu, debian, slackware in an incomplete fashion. You guys wouldnt have done this at all if you didnt already see the problems that im trying to address.
Take LUPU or LUCID for instance, Puppy was known by many as "just another ubuntu". The problem here was that Puppy was actively promoted as LUCID or whatever, having a tie to Ubuntu and many people used it and tried to install things from the Ubuntu repos and it doesnt work without hunting for missing deps, editing conf file etc. Just using Ubuntu or Debian or whatever packages means nothing at all if you dont run the same kernel and base system. So i jumped the gun in anticipation, why not just start with the base OS of say Debian, then try to make a Puppy around it?

I know those of you have concerns about once you have a Pussy then you install debian packages, these packages wont be as small as Puppy. For one thing we have a working compressed save file format and debian packages are all uniform, there is /doc /usr /etc ... whatever... its reasonably predictable to know what dirs you actually need. There is a catroll-panel function in Pussy to "clean up" your system and delete what you dont need. Also what would it be like if Puppy has its entire quickpet and most of its software repo installed? After all these are the only packages that can be added that have been slimmed, everything else you add that isnt in the puppy repos puppy users need to slim themselves. This is why we have 2 major versions of Pussy, the base and the Xtra, the Xtra is the equivelent of Puppy with absolutely everything installed. If you start with the Xtra edition, you are no worse off than if you had Puppy with most of its repo already installed. And if you want to upgrade from the base OS to the Xtra? its one file to download, one squash that does it all. Its like the entire repo in one file. Everything above and beyond that, what is not included in Puppy repos or Pussy Xtra is up to the user to slim or not to slim down, its no different with Pussy or Puppy. Pussy base and Pussy Xtra have been slimmed to a standard similar to Puppy.

Last edited by sickgut on Fri 13 Jan 2012, 07:24; edited 1 time in total
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tlchost

Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 1705
Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 07:03    Post subject:  

sickgut wrote:
I just dont know why its so blasphemous.


Because it is not the Way of The Puppy, Little Grasshopper.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 08:00    Post subject:  

After messaging John Murga the guy who runs this forum (as if we didnt already know that) Pussy will stay on this forum. I just presumed because i was separating from Puppy and Pussy is no longer going to try to be a Puppy that Pussy had no place on a Puppy forum, but im told its ok.

so im leaving the puppy world to do pussy things but not going very far Smile
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 09:50    Post subject: PPM  

Well I do not know if this is the way of the puppy or not, but looks like a waste to keep compiling the same apps or being forced to change puppy to use one app because is only available for this puppy version.
I guess one of the reasons of the wider appeal of puppy5.2.x is its compatibility with ubuntu repos. Something that puppy5.3.x repeats with slackware repos. Pussy's appeal is not coincidental either. So package availability and consistence should not be overlooked.

PPM was built the way it is, back then because served certain needs for ONE or few highly similar puppies and puplets. But today there are 5 main stream puppies and countless pupplets, most of them not compatible with eachother. So I think PPM and pets should change a bit to fit the new reality.
I think that Puppy can have its own equally wide(?) repo if some kind of package auditing and tool-chane consistency is implemented. The puppy package management could easily be improved with minor investment (and a lot of knowledge...).

What it really needs is to add 2 new files in the pets, and PPM to check them and act accordingly.
One file should contain something like the ldd output for the included binaries eg `ldd --verbose binaries_in_pet >> petname.ldd' and the other the standard `petneme.files', that PPM generates (only after installation...).
The first file would be equivalent of "dependencies" while the second of "provides".

There are some more "dependencies" that may be more difficult to automate. The programs that scripts in the pet call upon and are not included in the pet (or listed as dependencies).
I guess that someone could search for the "exec" or "which" command in the scripts but I'm sure that a lot would be missed. Maybe someone has better ideas on how to "automate" this and append it in the dependencies file.

Anyway, having these 2 new files in the pet outside the tarbal, PPM could check before installation (the way it checks for size) and decide if additional files are needed, where to find them (assuming that a "provides" database is generated for every puppy-repo) and if preexisting files will be overwritten or updated.

If these 2 new files are not present or are empty, PPM could issue some scary warning, like "installing this package will brake your system".
This hopefully will deter installation of miss-formed packages and encourage compliance by pet developers.

As for consistency, I think that "agreeing" in every cycle on kernel, gcc and xorg versions should be sufficient and if not, PPM should at least be aware of this and act accordingly.

I'm sure that people can think and do better than that, but the general idea is that with well formed and audited packages Puppy would have nothing to envy from other distros. Most of the packages are already somewhere in this forum or some repo sites in and out of ibiblio. There are just hard to find and questionable to use.
This should improve somehow.


I do not know what sickgut will decide to do with pussy or puppy, but I would rather see him stay, and maybe work along these lines too.

Just my 2 c.

PS: Ooops sickgut decided already Wink

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stu90


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1401
Location: England. Dell Inspiron 1501. Dpup

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 10:22    Post subject:  

I agree with many of Sickgut's points - my secondary OS is Bodhi linux they have their own .bod packages that contain all dependencies for popular applications yet still retain apt-get / synaptic package manager to ubuntu repos.

If Puppy was built from say debain or slackware why couldn't we do the same - keeping a repo of .pets as optimized packages yet with the full compatibility of an established and well maintained repo to fallback on if x,y,x, package is not maintained in the puppy repo.
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big_bass

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 1747

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 12:27    Post subject:  

saintless
Quote:
Is really the name Pussy linux holding back the help of puppy developers?


Quote:
SouthPaws wrote:
I wonder what would've happened if Pussy was just renamed... Shocked


Quote:

ttuuxxx
I didn't get involved with your release well because I didn't like the name.


I had posted this but you ignored it to your own hurt
maybe you thought I wasn't trying to help you ? I was though .
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57999&start=26

I am being honest and frank with you
should I comment that the name you chose has a different meaning in
the USA and Canada if you are completely unaware
of the negative use of this term
ask someone else you would believe to PM you with more info I wont explain here
out of respect to others I wouldn't want to offend

I did try to warn you politely
but I guess you took it the wrong way

have you seen this I havent tried it but there may be some good ideas there
that could be used
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=semplice

Joe

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2487
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 13:20    Post subject:  

big_bass wrote:
I had posted this but you ignored it to your own hurt
maybe you thought I wasn't trying to help you ? I was though .
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57999&start=26


I wrote there was a discussion, Big_bass. It includes your opinion and also many others.
I don't see anything about helping Sickgut in the link you gave.
Just interesting project and poor choice of name I read there.

You find the project interesting and you don't like the name Pussy linux is one thing.
You didn't get involved with Pussy linux because you didn't like the name is something else.


And if you read more than 60 pages back in two threads about Pussy linux, you will not find the words you and Ttuuxxx wrote here.

Don't get me wrong, Big_bass. I respect you too much. Also Ttuuxxx and all linux developers. Your TXZ_Pup is on my computer since I found it.

I don't mind different name for Pussy linux. For me the name does not matter at all. I like the OS it self, not the name.

If Sickgut wants to change the name I will support his decision.

I just don't think it will make any difference even if he name it Puppy-cat linux. But maybe I'm wrong... It's only my opinion.

Best regards!

Toni


Edit:


big_bass wrote:

have you seen this I havent tried it but there may be some good ideas there
that could be used
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=semplice

Joe


Thanks for this link.

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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 13:25    Post subject:  

BIG_BASS wrote:
saintless
Quote:
Is really the name Pussy linux holding back the help of puppy developers?


Quote:
SouthPaws wrote:
I wonder what would've happened if Pussy was just renamed... Shocked


Quote:

ttuuxxx
I didn't get involved with your release well because I didn't like the name.


I had posted this but you ignored it to your own hurt
maybe you thought I wasn't trying to help you ? I was though .
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57999&start=26

I am being honest and frank with you
should I comment that the name you chose has a different meaning in
the USA and Canada if you are completely unaware
of the negative use of this term
ask someone else you would believe to PM you with more info I wont explain here
out of respect to others I wouldn't want to offend

I did try to warn you politely
but I guess you took it the wrong way

have you seen this I havent tried it but there may be some good ideas there
that could be used
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=semplice

Joe
_________________

I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=57484


So, as i have read this, i have realized, there are other places on earth where "pussy" doesn't mean "kitten" but - you already know what...

Let me tell you a funny story from germany.

If we in germany do hear "pussy" we associate "muschi", wich means "pussy" as well.

Two or three Federal elections ago we have had a duel in tv between the candidates "Gerhard Schröder" and "Edmund Stoiber". At the end of this duel they were asked about their wife's lovely-named (nicknamed).

I am sure 99% of german people can not remember of what "Gerhard Schröder" has answered, but all do know, what "Edmund Stoiber" had said.

Attention, please,
Attention, please,
Attention, please:

He said: "MUSCHI"

And an entire nation doubled over with laughter when watching TV! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Can you imagine who has been the German Chancellor, after that?

I mean, it's a f.. double moral world out there. We should fight against this fdmw, i stand for that - but to shock people -intentionally or unintentionally- only should be and remain artistic expression of artists.

So, something to think:

Isn't puppy (no matter what distro or derivative) an artwork?

Aren't we all Artists?

A long time ago a famous german person (forgot the name, sorry) has had answered, asked about his work and getting his ideas: "Eigentlich bin ich nur ein kreativer Dieb." - which means: "I take it from everywhere and all, i am a creative 'thief'".

Aren't we all... ?

Greetings from Germany to all and everyone in the world

RSH

Do you want to use your brain? Puppy Linux!

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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 3220

PostPosted: Fri 13 Jan 2012, 13:35    Post subject:  

saintless wrote:


I just don't think it will make any difference even if he name it Puppy-cat linux. But maybe I'm wrong... It's only my opinion.

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saintless....ask any elementary school kid if a name matters.
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