puppylinux.info was closed Jan 14, reopened Jan 28, 2012

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rhadon
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Location: Germany

#41 Post by rhadon »

When Murga Forum went down, it was the very best to open puppylinux.info. Raffy did. For us all.

When Murga Forum was available again, I think there happened something like a 'crisis of identity' (maybe not exactly the right term, please be lenient). Here in MF I was not often in the off-topic section, in puppylinux.info often. One reason could be the disproportional quantity of off-topic posts. Sometimes I thougt by myself that raffy's forum is the off-topic section from MF. I don't mean this disrespectful or derogative in any kind.

Saying "it's only because the 'recent events' " seems to be only the half of the truth (my guess).

I appreciate the attempts from raffy, trying to handle things better than here (as far as it is possible).

I also appreciate the attempts from aitch for this and all in all, I think he did a very good job. I belief that he spent a lot of time and energy by doing this. I think he made some small faults (no offence). But hey, it's so easy to say so, if not involved and looking back! He's not perfect. I'm not perfect. Anybody want to throw the first stone? (rhetorical question, and I'm really not interested in any new discussion about that or aitch or others or about these events!).

About the last sentence, I can take 2 different points of view. First, completely harmless words. Nothing to say against this. On the other side it's a phrase from the christian faith. Dangerous, anybody could feel hurt or insulted. So should it be allowed or should it be forbitten? For me, in this case, the context is more important than the phrase or the words.
"Keep all discussions civil or you are gone. No exceptions for anyone."
Yes. No doubt. I think all or at least nearly all of us agree.

Although we are living more and more in a digital world, I prefer a analog perception.

Between allowing everything and banning for one wrong word, there's a big range. Involved by a dispute, even very polite and helpful people can write harsh words (I saw it often enough). Therefore I prefer to warn people clearly before banning. Also to ban people temporarily could be an option. Banning shouldn't be done by the decision of only one Admin (if there are more than one). If banning, it should be posted, maybe also the reason.

To designate all Admins was good. Not because anybody did wrong but because different point of views and actions. There must be a consens.

I see it similar about closing the forum. I think it's need to think about the general way.

Do/did I like(d) puppylinux.info? Yes.
Do we 'really' need it? As long as MF is available, no (most people there are also here). But it could be a worth addition and it could grow.

Should there be an off topic section? I'm not sure. On one hand, no. If anybody wants to post off topic, he can do it in the off-topic section of the murga forum. On the other side, there was a disproportional quantity of off topic posts (meaning not sure about the reason).

I can't and I will not tell anybody what is right or wrong or what to do. It's all only my opinion and some thoughts.

Best regards
Rolf
Ich verwende "frugal", und das ist gut so. :wink:
Raspberry Pi without Puppy? No, thanks.

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Aitch
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Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#42 Post by Aitch »

Saintless/DaveG
I think you're right, as the log-in page has been removed, however anyone with a non-logged out php in their browser would still be able to post/edit - thanks for attempt, at least, at self-moderation....we did OK, until Akismet stopped us, but it did show cooperation working, with help from raffy

koolie, whether you know it or not, many people, including me, expressed a 'don't leave' view for you, where you left your notice of intention......in my freedom thread in speakers corner
I posted an olive branch offer to resolve our misunderstandings offsite, to JIm, possibly via email, however the thread got more off-topic posts than on
I posted a reminder of the purpose of the thread, but it was derailed by further comment, not all pleasant, which pushed it to the top of recent posts front page

I guess that motivated the closure, as raffy wasn't the only one to have had enough - I'd been reduced to tears more than once, and raffy and I had been discussing deletion posts by email, and via the offsite admin console

thanks raffy, for providing the alternate forum - as I said, "It was an experience!"
I had posted a full and unconditional apology to Jim and everyone for my part in the misunderstanding/fracas
The rest is history - can we move on without a post-mortem, please?
This will be my only comment about it, thanks
Edit: Rolf, thanks

Aitch :)

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saintless
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Location: Bulgaria

#43 Post by saintless »

Nice to see all of you wanting our village back :)

I hope we all have learned a lesson and the future of puppylinux.info will be different now.

Aitch, Jim3630, Dave_G, SFR and all - lets hope Raffy will take us back in the village (well I'm still there) :)

Take your time, Raffy. We will wait for your decision :D

Edit: Raffy, (when and if you have time) check this thread, please.
http://puppylinux.info/topic/pussy-linu ... ere/page/4
All my posts there are blocked as spam for day or two after I post them. Is there any chance to change that, because I like to post there all the useful information from this forum.
Thanks!

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#44 Post by jim3630 »

aitch

i have not received any emails from you off site.

aitch i have not received any offer from you to resolve our misunderstandings.

aitch you refuse to retract calling me a racist and that i called you and sage a racist, among other things.

aitch i asked you to at least stop making allegations against me the day puppylinux.info closed and you would not stop.

aitch i posted i would not right any more about this even given your position.

you did not respond and i do not want a repeat of what happened there.

aitch you said you were upset with me because i used your birthname instead of usename and i sincerely publicly apologized to you.

i posted a public apology to so many people who had expressed their grief. many people left posting their reasons. many people here now will feel grief, anger, hurt over this.

aitch obviously some members here feel the need for a post-mortem.

aitch i am sorry to see you continue this now here. i did not personally want a post-mortem of that over here.

aitch please pm or email me but do not bait me with posts like that.

aitch and all i am not going to post here again about this in the forum. i am not going to post a copy of your thread or any others here.
--------
have edited this so many times trying to tone down, pare it down, stick to facts. seems one person's facts is someone else opinion. this is my best effort.
Last edited by jim3630 on Sun 15 Jan 2012, 20:09, edited 7 times in total.

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harii4
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#45 Post by harii4 »

Nice to see all of you wanting our village back

I hope we all have learned a lesson and the future of puppylinux.info will be different now.
I hope so too :P
3.01 Fat Free / Fire Hydrant featherweight/ TXZ_pup / 431JP2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peace and Justice are two sides of the same coin.

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#46 Post by jim3630 »

harii4 wrote:
Nice to see all of you wanting our village back

I hope we all have learned a lesson and the future of puppylinux.info will be different now.
I hope so too :P
harii4 like your tag line. something i need work toward.
Last edited by jim3630 on Sun 15 Jan 2012, 20:10, edited 1 time in total.

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#47 Post by nooby »

Saintless, yes I would hope we learn too
but being a "seasoned" pessimist I doubt
we are able to learn how to avoid it in future.

I trust everybody involved felt they did the right thing.

So no chance to learn as I see it but it can be my lack of
finetuning using English that fail to get nuances in the texts.

I trust that all of us or at least a big majority of us
underestimate how incredibly difficult this is.

They even write academic books about how difficult
cooperation is.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2001/fe ... ianreview4

Richard Sennett wrote a book that got published
2012 and the title is

Together: The Rituals, Pleasures, and
Politics of Cooperation
In it he says that cooperation needs skills of a craftsmen.
One need to commit to listening in a way we are not used to.

One need to be skilled at doing it and that take deep
commitment and dedication to get good at it.
http://www.richardsennett.com/site/SENN ... ?pageid=40

The cool thing with that guy is that he is one of those that
most likely have been brought up with Political Correctness

and his parents and grandparents? where too.
All of them Socialists and Communists and dedicated to
solving discrimination and other social issues.

So if he tells us this is much more difficult than what PC
folks usually say then I trust it is difficult.

Here in Sweden the PC folks like my Commist Dad and
his friends say it is very easy. One just decide to show
solidarity with minorities and all will just work.

Sennett knows from his own practice that it is not like that.

Co-operation needs commitment to practice until
one can listen to others in a skilled way.

I doubt any of us have that skill now. I know I fail at it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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kooliepup
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Joined: Sat 14 Jan 2012, 03:40
Location: Victoria, Australia

#48 Post by kooliepup »

Aitch wrote: you left your notice of intention.
That was not a notice of intent.
I am not a Prima Donna. :)

Does anyone have a copy of that page?
I am now interested to see what transpired after I left.
At the time, I didn't want to know.
Last edited by kooliepup on Mon 16 Jan 2012, 02:39, edited 1 time in total.
There's no place like 127.0.0.1

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FeodorF
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Location: Heidelberg, Germany

#49 Post by FeodorF »

Dear jim3630,

have you ever joined one of those components of the United States of America?

Army
Navy
Air Force

Do you remember what you learn first when ever being send outside the USA as a soldier?

"You are an ambassador of the USA as soon as you leave conus in uniform!"

You are always asked to make friends! Regardless how bad they will ever speak about your country, the United States of America!


It ain't easy at all, I know.

Best Regards,
Feodor

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#50 Post by jim3630 »

FeodorF wrote:Dear jim3630,

have you ever joined one of those components of the United States of America?

Army
Navy
Air Force

Do you remember what you learn first when ever being send outside the USA as a soldier?

"You are an ambassador of the USA as soon as you leave conus in uniform!"

You are always asked to make friends! Regardless how bad they will ever speak about your country, the United States of America!


It ain't easy at all, I know.

Best Regards,
Feodor
Feodor
thank you for your good will and reminder. there are a couple of other things mentioned usually in the same breath. i resigned my commission in 1989.

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FeodorF
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Location: Heidelberg, Germany

#51 Post by FeodorF »

Dear Jim,

I resigned in 1988 - I had an argument with an E-7.

He was fond of kicking his dog underneath his military desk (with drawers on one side and compartments on the others - there was not too much space left for his dog.)
As a human being he acted the same way.

I took my case all the way up to the LtC. It was me against an E-7 and his German witness. The LtC wanted me to stay - but hell, I wasn't patient enough.

Best Regards.
Feodor

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#52 Post by jim3630 »

FeodorF wrote:Dear Jim,

I resigned in 1988 - I had an argument with an E-7.

He was fond of kicking his dog underneath his military desk (with drawers on one side and compartments on the others - there was not too much space left for his dog.)
As a human being he acted the same way.

I took my case all the way up to the LtC. It was me against an E-7 and his German witness. The LtC wanted me to stay - but hell, I wasn't patient enough.

Best Regards.
Feodor
Feodor

that is tuff. in1989 stationed in Alaska knew would not retire out and simply found Caption Hazewood's vacation offer in Prince William Sound to compelling.

Exxon threw insane amounts of money at any idea for a remedy. i helpied set up a infrastructure and staffing for medical care of injured workers. latter when the Sound starting closing due to winter conditions i had experience to contract with the last crew to leave as the occupational safety officer on the ship dry dock.

pay comparable to private security officers in Iraq today so in 1989 i had 3 days shore leave. got to walk in pristine wilderness that had not a human foot on it in hundreds of years. too bad much of it was covered in oil.

Dewbie

#53 Post by Dewbie »

Raffy,
Should we retain our passwords, or are you purging them?
Thanks.

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Karl Godt
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Location: Kiel,Germany

#54 Post by Karl Godt »

Ätsch!

Ausruf der Verhöhnung / Schadenfreude

ha-ha, you lost! [na, na, na, na, na, na! in a

http://de.pons.eu/dict/search/results/? ... =de&l=deen


*

Aetsh! is actually a german word for expressing

[quote]Schadenfreude Listeni/ˈʃɑ

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#55 Post by jim3630 »

Karl hope you were not near. be safe.

Red Alert on Jan.17th 2012 18:11 at the Heidelberg military housing complex (called Patrick-Henry-Village).

'Grossalarm wegen angeblicher Bombe'

Three young persons drove with their car to P-H-V and told the guard at the entrance they have a bomb inside the car.
Last edited by jim3630 on Sat 21 Jan 2012, 02:57, edited 1 time in total.

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jim3630
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Location: Northern Nevada

#56 Post by jim3630 »

dup

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harii4
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#57 Post by harii4 »

We are off The Beaten Trail from "puppylinux.info is now closed" :wink:
3.01 Fat Free / Fire Hydrant featherweight/ TXZ_pup / 431JP2012
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peace and Justice are two sides of the same coin.

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8-bit
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Location: Oregon

#58 Post by 8-bit »

I tend to agree with the posts here getting greatly off topic.
There are other areas of the forum for those posts.
This thread should be kept for the discussion of puppylinux.info and ideas and suggestions relating to it.

One has to remember that it is not guaranteed that puppylinux.info will reopen while this forum is in operation.

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saintless
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#59 Post by saintless »

Thanks, Raffy :) The village is open again.
Everybody - lets keep it save and friendly this time, please!

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#60 Post by nooby »

saintless wrote:Thanks, Raffy :) The village is open again.
Everybody - lets keep it safe and friendly this time, please!
Is that not to be too optimistic?
http://puppylinux.info/
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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