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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
Puppy Package Site - Planning Stages
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Thu 07 Jul 2011, 21:39    Post subject:  

ttuuxxx wrote:
If your going to host pets/iso's just remember that puppylinux.ca was getting I think it was around 3TB of downloads a month at the time and increasing as the months went on, it was extremely hard for Eric to foot the bill and also his server providers still had issues about the amount of downloads per month and sometimes they would block downloads after a certain target, some servers say they are unlimited but once they feel the puppy crunch they quickly turn face on you. Just something to keep in mind.
ttuuxxx


sorry for being MIA for a bit. I was not planning on having the site host ISOs... mainly just Pets. I think that will cut down on a large chunk of the bandwidth. If I can get it down to about 1tb a month I should be ok.
Ive always felt that the iso hosting is what was the biggest hit to hosting. After all normal 100mb iso downloaded 100 times is 10gb of data transfer. Now take that and imagine 20 or 30 isos... and you're talking over 300gb right there. And I think 100 downloads is a small esimate. I'm sure some of the larger released hit 1000 easy... probably even up to around 10K in their lifetime.

All that being said if I can get webdev help... id consider putting down more money on my end so that I can host isos on a limited basis.

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sc0ttman


Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 2385
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri 08 Jul 2011, 03:34    Post subject:  

Just in case this helps, I have found Hostgator to be great - not only cheap, but friendly, helpful and reliable, and I cannot say that for all of them (GoDaddy, and others, I'm looking at you!)!!

My bandwidth so far this month is 13,914MB and they never hassle me or nag me or anything. I am using around 3GB diskspace apparently, a well.

I'm not hosting much, but know of people who are, they also had no problems. For the price, it is fantastic.

I've got unlimited email accounts, SQL databases (rare), FTP accounts, sub domains, etc, ... And my sites went down only once in 2 years and (only for about 20 mins)...

I checked twitter live feeds for 'hostgator' when it went down, and others like me were shocked - it seems it was the first time for well over year that anyone had any problems with their hosting! Made me feel good.

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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2012, 17:55    Post subject:  

Ive wanted to do this for a while now. but ive had another idea...
I originally was thinking of doing this through a webgui as you can see in the thread. But I'm ok if we can script out the whole thing and make a program that'll run like Pacman in Arch linux or apt-get, etc. Just do pull a file from the site with the file list, grep the file you want... then download the link. etc.
Im sure you get where im going with this. a GTK interface could be made at a later point in time if everything works.

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2012, 19:00    Post subject:  

Ideally, we could just patch the existing ppm. I'm almost ready to work on something like this.

The hosting part should be fairly simple - just ftp access the way smokey01 has his site setup.

The difficult part is finding reliable people to be repo maintainers.
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1828
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2012, 21:57    Post subject:  

jemimah,

CatDude and I have created a nice little application that's somewhere between Drop Box and Droper.

It's designed to share files on your own server so you're not locked into a Drop Box account.

Basically it's an icon that sits on the desktop with a smart script in the background. You simply drop a file onto the icon and it will be uploaded to your server space. No need to use an FTP client as a command line version is part of the package. The other nice thing we have incorporated is sorting. Depending on the type of file it will be uploaded to a predetermined directory.

Currently we sort the files into five different directories that includes pets, tarballs, graphics, audio and the rest end up in root. Of course this could be expanded to other files as well.

It's very handy when we are working on something and communicating on Psip. Almost like sitting in the same room.

It would also work very well on Saluki with the xfce window manager as the pet package would be able to put the icon on the desktop during installation.

It won't solve your repository situation but it will make it easy for you to upload to it.

Cheers

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technosaurus


Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 4353

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jan 2012, 22:17    Post subject:  

If only I could find a way to use my Droid as a server...
Like this:http://www.appbrain.com/app/kws-android-web-server/org.xeustechnologies.android.kws
Has anyone tried one for a non-rooted phone.

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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jan 2012, 02:05    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
Ideally, we could just patch the existing ppm. I'm almost ready to work on something like this.

The hosting part should be fairly simple - just ftp access the way smokey01 has his site setup.

The difficult part is finding reliable people to be repo maintainers.


Well cant we start small and only increase in size as we have people on board to assist? We've got a pretty solid core group of developers. Each could work on their own little sliver, that way its not outsourced to random people who really dont care about the work. I dont really want to give them more work... but if they just simply approve or veto stuff... Im sure myself or some other maintainer can do the necessary tweaks here and there.

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stu90


Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1401
Location: England. Dell Inspiron 1501. Dpup

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jan 2012, 03:57    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
Ive wanted to do this for a while now. but ive had another idea...
I originally was thinking of doing this through a webgui as you can see in the thread. But I'm ok if we can script out the whole thing and make a program that'll run like Pacman in Arch linux or apt-get, etc. Just do pull a file from the site with the file list, grep the file you want... then download the link. etc.
Im sure you get where im going with this. a GTK interface could be made at a later point in time if everything works.


Depending ob what kind of text file would you be using -
If it is a repo file like the other puppy repositories then it would be very easy to add to ppack package manager.


If it is just a text file with a simple list of packages in the repository then it should be straight forward enough to adapt this little gui i have for downloading Bodhi linux .bod packages (search is not implemented yet but all other options work)
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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Sun 15 Jan 2012, 11:02    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
jemimah wrote:
Ideally, we could just patch the existing ppm. I'm almost ready to work on something like this.

The hosting part should be fairly simple - just ftp access the way smokey01 has his site setup.

The difficult part is finding reliable people to be repo maintainers.


Well cant we start small and only increase in size as we have people on board to assist? We've got a pretty solid core group of developers. Each could work on their own little sliver, that way its not outsourced to random people who really dont care about the work. I dont really want to give them more work... but if they just simply approve or veto stuff... Im sure myself or some other maintainer can do the necessary tweaks here and there.


The problem is, nearly every one of our core devs has their own puplet. So we're all compiling the same packages, and they're generally not compatible.

For instance, in Saluki, I'm trying really hard to categorize things in a way that makes sense (to me anyway). So for each pet, I have to modify the .desktop file to make sure the categories are consistent, it has a full size icon, the name, comment, and generic name are set correctly. So even for stuff where the binaries are fine - I have to rebuilt the pet.

What would be most useful to the users, obviously, is if we could all agree on some sort of standard and have a central repo with packages that work on all puplets (at least the recent ones). This is quite possible for Racy/Wary but if you throw Slacko, Lupu, and Dpup into the mix, I don't think it'll succeed.

I think to start, we really need to figure out who is interested in being a repo maintainer and under what conditions they would be interested contributing.

If we can solve the social problem - I'm sure I can make the PPM support our solution.
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2012, 17:06    Post subject:  

jemimah wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
jemimah wrote:
Ideally, we could just patch the existing ppm. I'm almost ready to work on something like this.

The hosting part should be fairly simple - just ftp access the way smokey01 has his site setup.

The difficult part is finding reliable people to be repo maintainers.


Well cant we start small and only increase in size as we have people on board to assist? We've got a pretty solid core group of developers. Each could work on their own little sliver, that way its not outsourced to random people who really dont care about the work. I dont really want to give them more work... but if they just simply approve or veto stuff... Im sure myself or some other maintainer can do the necessary tweaks here and there.


The problem is, nearly every one of our core devs has their own puplet. So we're all compiling the same packages, and they're generally not compatible.

For instance, in Saluki, I'm trying really hard to categorize things in a way that makes sense (to me anyway). So for each pet, I have to modify the .desktop file to make sure the categories are consistent, it has a full size icon, the name, comment, and generic name are set correctly. So even for stuff where the binaries are fine - I have to rebuilt the pet.

What would be most useful to the users, obviously, is if we could all agree on some sort of standard and have a central repo with packages that work on all puplets (at least the recent ones). This is quite possible for Racy/Wary but if you throw Slacko, Lupu, and Dpup into the mix, I don't think it'll succeed.

I think to start, we really need to figure out who is interested in being a repo maintainer and under what conditions they would be interested contributing.

If we can solve the social problem - I'm sure I can make the PPM support our solution.


I understand what you are saying. Each one of the core devs has their own sort of methodology, which tends to make things less than seamless with other puplets. When I meant 'start small', I was being quite literal. Start with only 1 puplet either Racy/Wary or Slacko per haps. And work forward. While it would be great to go back and make every current puplet work... maybe this is something we should just start working towards in the future, and deal with the current mess as status quo with all current puplets.
I dont think Mick would have to much objection to it, but I cant speak for him. I'll drop him a line and see if he'll chime in on it since slacko is the most current 'offical'. Hopefully if we can get something solid and working, it can then be utilitized for any future 'offical' releases. If he does have an issue with it (I doubt), then we can make a simple go at using Racy/Wary.

You're right the Social problem is the hard part. I'd hope that if we make a strong case for a standard (through a working system as an example), everyone would slowly adopt it. Yea I know, I can be sort of a dreamer. lol.
In any case... I've got puppy-packages.org registered (been about a year or so now). I'm willing to offer it up for the greater good.

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jemimah


Joined: 26 Aug 2009
Posts: 4309
Location: Tampa, FL

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2012, 17:50    Post subject:  

How well do the external repos work with slacko/lupu/dpup? (I always compile my own stuff so I haven't played with this a lot).

If it already works pretty well then it makes sense (to me) to concentrate on wary/racy since the repos are small and need the most work.

At least to me it makes little sense to spend a lot of time building a puppy out of other distro's packages if you have to recompile the whole repo anyway. Maybe I am missing something here - feel free to set me straight.

Personally, the concept of building puppy from somebody else's repo always made me feel rather unneeded and like the art of finding, hacking, and compiling small packages is largely unappreciated by the majority of users. My point is, there might be more devs if it seemed like devs were actually wanted/needed.
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Tue 17 Jan 2012, 22:34    Post subject:  

A thought or two:

This won't be the easiest to setup, but I believe it would make later processing and extending easier!

1- Use a format similar to what barry has done with wary/racy.
in other words, a 2/3 character suffix for base/version specific compiled packages and just i386/i486/i586/i686 for common use packages.

Thus:
pheilix-1.2.9-i486 - would be the pheilix package that SHOULD run on any puppy base that can handle a i486 compiled package! Base Maintainers/Developers would require someone to be responsable to check that it is so as part of their create process!
BUT:
pheilix-1.2.9-w5c - would be the pheilix package that was compiled to run on wary522 / racy522. It may run on others, but no guarantee is provided. If it was pheilix-1.2.9-w5 it would only be certified compatable for earlier wary & racy versions, but MAY run on later wary/racy versions.

I would also like to see a source directory for all compiled packages to be supplied by the initial pet creator as a mandatory requirement, so other base maintainers, could if need be, compile for their own bases without totally restarting from scratch, hopefully with a 'compilers readme' added so any problems/fixes/workarrounds are available for later builders. It would also include later package versions as they are created, but with the notes in earlier versions available, hopefully the later builders work is a little easier.

2- I would prefer something within the PPM package for downloading, something like adding a redline through unsuitable pets or colouring them red, so the user knew they are so. They should not be stopped from installing, just warned that they should think again before doing so! However, where the package is a core package, it should only be available for download, not download and auto-install. How this is done, i'm not quite sure, but there is the BuildingBlock item in the type field, maybe that could be used!

Uploading could be a similar process to that talked about where the new pet & source could be dropped into a box with a question or two with a space for a few lines of information. It should initially go to a hidden area to be checked out and certified by 'a responsable person(s)' for the each of the base(s) it's been submitted against before release.

3- There needs to be something simple to upload on suitable 'mirror servers' to automatically handle the mirror processes. It should not be the responsability of the source server to do anything 'other' than starting the remirror process on the mirroring servers, but the Mirroring servers should be able to handle the rest automatically, preferably with a single email to the mirror server's admin that it has happened or a problem has ocurred. There should also be a written process for setting up a new server!

edit: tpyos!

Last edited by scsijon on Wed 18 Jan 2012, 21:15; edited 1 time in total
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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 1828
Location: South Australia

PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2012, 05:12    Post subject:  

I thought iguleder had a good idea with his auto compiling script.

In other words, the repository is just the source. When you select the source it automatically compiles and installs the application.

At least this way the application should always be compatible with your OS.

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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Fri 20 Jan 2012, 06:52    Post subject:  

smokey01 wrote:
I thought iguleder had a good idea with his auto compiling script.

In other words, the repository is just the source. When you select the source it automatically compiles and installs the application.

At least this way the application should always be compatible with your OS.


so basically the arch linux pkgbuild concept. which is basically the slackbuild concept just packaged in an auto run script.
That'd work, but then to add any program a user would have to download and enable the devx package. If packages are already build then users can just download pre built binaries and not have to worry about the devx.sfs
That's a bit cumbersome for someone who just wants to add a browser or other small program. To make it simple for the end user we'd have to start adding the compiling enviroment into the base isos, which would drive our sizes up.

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01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 7834
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 21 Jan 2012, 18:13    Post subject:  

To answer jemimah
Quote:
How well do the external repos work with slacko/lupu/dpup?


Reasonably well, but still is a work in progress, as anything I guess.

You can get a sane kde4 installation in slacko but do need to tweak it a little for correct operation. Many other packages install without a hitch. I do see your point though about compiling stuff, as some stuff included in slacko which I have compiled is incompatible with some stock slackware stuff. More on that later.

-


Slacko ships with the "ziggy" interface by default, an interface developed by Sigmund. I find it much better on small screens and a bit more intuitive. I really like the "app store" look though as in stu90's screenie.

However, interface is one thing, the underlying engine is the key and dependency checking is the bug bear IMO. This is more the packager's responsibility the way petget is structured at the moment. Maybe dir2pet needs to be more rigorous in checking dependencies and all of them listed in the dependency field.

And what about sfs management? Should it be part of PPM or separate?

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