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 Forum index » Off-Topic Area » Programming
Debian "Live Session User" sets NTFS drive to read only
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emil

Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 609
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb 2012, 13:27    Post subject:  

nooby I wonder if you could try a little experiment. The reason is that the initrd and vmlinuz need not to be in the same "live" directory than the squahsfs.

During boot the initrd.img searches all partitions drives for the folder live and picks it up in order to load the squashfs for overlay. You could make a folder /boot on sda3 with initrd.img and vmlinuz and shift the folder live to e.g. sda1 (/live will get picked up on any partition)

then you could try to boot with
Code:
title pussylinux test
kernel (hd0,2)/boot/vmlinuz boot=live config persistent quickreboot noprompt autologin username=root password=pussy
initrd (hd0,2)/boot/initrd.img
boot


I wonder which of the partitions stays read only...
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb 2012, 14:42    Post subject:  

Yes why not maybe that lock sda1 but not sda3.
I don't want to place things on sda1 though but
most likely nothing bad happens. I will look how big
size is left there. Hold your breath while I look Smile

I did try very many variations but unfortunately
there is a boot dir for windows there and Debian
seems to not be able to stay in the boot I made
despite that I renamed the BOOT to BOOTold
it still took things from that one and loaded them

so it failed. I tested to have live even on sda1
but it still took things from the BOOTold
even when I only had a live there and no boot

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 03 Feb 2012, 15:32    Post subject:  

Not that I really want to use usb flash memories
but if one boot from that one but have live on the internal
hd that is ntfs would that work?

I ahve pussy now on a usb and that one do boot and do
allow me to write on the internal HD IIRC that is.

I am not sure. The bad thing about booting from usb
is that the boot on the hd is not available until one
unplug the usb?

Don't get angry on me now. But why should I care at all
about Debian when Ubuntu using cheat iso booting
just work and allow me almost identical experience
as when I boot from Puppy. Only a bit slower due to
not using toram

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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb 2012, 02:57    Post subject:  

Hi nooby,

If what you have said is correct about your recovery, I understand why you won't resize partitions. But, can't you rebuild the recovery? Some (I think most) recovery stuff that I've seen wont check anything. If you start it, it will wipe the partition and reload everything from scratch. Anyway, it sounds as though you know your recovery and what it wants.

The "easy way" would have been to create a small partition on the end of the disc. Drop pussy on there and let your boot-manager boot pussy from there, but then have a /live directory on your NTFS partition. It would have been sort-of like booting from a USB stick without the USB stick:)

The second "easy way" is as it seems you have now done.
Boot from the USB stick but have the /live directory on your NTFS partition /sda3.
It sounds as though that is working for you. Is it?
It should be. If not, we may be able to help sort that out somewhat easily.

You can probably make this a little easier for yourself by removing the boot manager, so that when the USB stick is installed at power-up, you will get pussy and when it is not, you will get Win7. I would have thought this would have been easier than installing the boot manager.

I guess you have to decide if you want to use pussy, puppy, Debian or Ubuntu. From what you've said it sounds as though Ubuntu will let you boot from the NTFS partition and write to it, so if you are happy with Ubuntu why bother with pussy or puppy?

If you want pussy to be bootable from the NTFS and write back to it, you may need to wait until someone has the time to pull the initrd.img image apart and look into it. It might be as simple as replacing the standard debian ntfs driver with ntfs-3g (even though that won't be quite as simple as it may have just sounded Smile ).

Right now, I'm trying to sort my own issues and while I'd love to have a crack at it, I'm up to my neck in muck and fighting with my own alligators.

In your position, I'd either learn to live with the USB stick boot and just clean it up a little, or move on altogether.

emil or someone else might have some other ideas though, so don't give up just yet.

Cheers
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb 2012, 03:53    Post subject:  

Much appreciated you took time to help me out.
I let it be for some time. No need to hurry at all.
But if others have any suggestion I will listen.

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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sat 04 Feb 2012, 07:18    Post subject:  

My pleasure.

If you can answer the following questions clearly, it may help others who may be in a better position right now to help you.

1) If you boot pussy from a USB stick can you write to the NTFS partition?

2) If you put /live in the NTFS partition, and boot from the USB stick, does that work as expected?

3) As a short to medium term solution, would this be acceptable?

4) If answer to 1 and 2 is yes, how could we tidy this up so that the answer to 3 was also yes?

5) If answer to either 1 or 2 was no. Please tell us what happens and what is not right.

Give as much detail as you can. It can only help.

Cheers
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 08 Feb 2012, 11:00    Post subject:  

Edit. So sorry! I fail to find out how to mount sda3 or any partition
on the harddrive. I boot from USB and using the image and
installed using the dd command that sickgut and all the others
taught me to use.

Where is the prog that work like Pmount on Puppy? or what CLI to use?

Every program only see the usb and it's own Linux file system.
No program see any Harddrive. Maybe one have to mount them.
Where does one do that?

Very surprising. I guess it could have to do with something I do wrong

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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 17:26    Post subject:  

Hi nooby,

Now you have me confused.

Are you saying that you can boot pussy from the USB stick, but you can't mount your NTFS partition after you have done this?

Can I ask why you are using the "dd" command?
If you already have a bootable pussy USB stick, then you shouldn't need to use the "dd" for anything.

If you are asking how to mount your NTFS Hard Drive partition, try this:

ntfs-3g /dev/sdb3 /media/usb1

This will mount your NTFS partition for read-write access on /media/usb1 (forget about the name for now, we can sort that out later)

To "unmount it", try this:

umount /media/usb1

Note: I assume if you boot from the USB, your USB will be "sda" and your hard drive will now be "sdb".
I could be wrong about this, so you may need to change the /dev/sd"X" letter.

Are we on the right track now?

Cheers

PS. Please ignore the network messages before you login.
We all know about this and it will be sorted (or something will be done) with the next build.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 17:36    Post subject:  

Nooby, the attached archive contains mount and unmount script from Emil. Just unzip them and click on the mount script. It will mount all your internal and usb drives in media. You have media icon on the desktop. Check there after you click on the mount script.
Tell us if you have RW access for NTFS partition with this script, because I don't have NTFS partition at the moment to test it.

JBV, I think Nooby needs the dd command to copy the files for frugal install.
mount.tar.gz
Description  Mount and unmount script.
gz

 Download 
Filename  mount.tar.gz 
Filesize  1.05 KB 
Downloaded  110 Time(s) 

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 18:07    Post subject:  

Thanks to both of you.

Saintless is right. I used a too confusing text about the dd
It was how I made the install. the surprising thing is that
when I tested this USB on Acer D250 then it did find the
sda3 where I have all my files.

Now when I use Acer D255 with a slightly more modern Atom CPU
that is two cores instead of one then it failed.

But I don't really remember what was going on. I have to test again
tomorrow. Too late now to test it. Thanks for the suggestions.

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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 18:09    Post subject:  

Hi saintless,

I'm not sure what a "frugal" install is.
If a "frugal" install is where you copy (load) the pussy/puppy files onto a hard disk and then boot from the hard-disk, nooby can not do that. If he does that, he will never be able to write to the NTFS boot partition.

In the short-to-medium term I think he only has 2 options.

1) Create another small partition on his hard-drive and do a "frugal" install on that, then boot from the "frugal" installation and he will be able to read-write on his primary NTFS partition. However, as he has explained he can't do this as it may break something else.

2) Always boot from a USB stick and then mount his NTFS hard drive.

The longer-term fix (may be) to pull the bootloader apart (initrd.img) and replace the NTFS driver in there with a different one, although this is not for the faint-hearted nor is it a quick and easy job. It would quite possibly take a few days of solid work and an awful lot of testing. There is also no guarantee that it would work, so expecting someone to do it for fun is a bit of an ask. Nooby isn't capable of doing this and no-one else really has the time or inclination, so he's caught between a rock and a hard place.

As I see it, option 2 above is his only real choice. He seems to be happy enough to do this, and it seems that now he just needs some help to mount the NTFS partition after booting from the USB stick.

Cheers
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jbv

Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 18:16    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
when I tested this USB on Acer D250 then it did find the
sda3 where I have all my files.

Now when I use Acer D255 with a slightly more modern Atom CPU
that is two cores instead of one then it failed.


Whoah! Now you're using 2 different machines?
How do we know that the machines are identical and have the same disk layout. Chances are they don't.

Cripes nooby, you aren't making this easy for people to help.
You don't answer direct questions properly and then leave out important stuff. If we are to help you, you need to start helping us. Start answering direct questions directly and don't leave out stuff.

If you've got 2 machines and one has special partitions that you can't change and you can't modify it so you can update your phones etc., I can understand that. But why can't you just blow away the 2nd machine and use it for pussy/puppy whatever?

This is doing my head in, so it's time for me to leave. Good luck with it.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10508
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 10 Feb 2012, 18:25    Post subject:  

Yes you are most likely right. It is Debian and they/them want it that way.

But what about the Slax people. They do allow that one write to the
NTFS that one booted from. Porteus OS that is Slax Remix Community Edition
and Salix Os and NimbleX OS and CDLinux all of them allow what I want.

Why is it impossible to do it on Debian?

Even SlitaZ seems to allow it now. They did not some years ago
and told me that that is a policy thing. Only write to USB not internal HD
they told me. Then some years go by and now they do allow it.

Knoppix do allow it.

I don't remember about xPUD which is a Chinese Ubuntu if they allow it.

The bug in Ubuntu when one booted frugally did allow it but that was
unintentionally and they have patched that bug now.

So sure it is unusual but it should be possible. But okay it can be too
much effort needed.

Hahah what if the Debian Developer know an easy way to do it but they
keep it totally secret and would rather lie about it then to reveal it?

I only guess but they give such round about answers when people ask them.
Instead if describing how they say. You should not do it!
So I guess that indicates they know how to.

oops late here now so I go to bed.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 1568
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sun 27 May 2012, 11:06    Post subject:  

Connected with this thread information here on page 99 and 100:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69475&start=1470

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4978
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun 27 May 2012, 14:44    Post subject:  

I`m not wining, but this isn`t programming or Puppy.
But then I know how hard it is to get any attention/help in the other forums.

Yeah, Debian is slow to respond to improvements, still won`t do NTFS r/w.
The suggestion of hacking the initrd file is probably the only solution.
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