Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Fri 29 Jul 2016, 19:46
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Fixing Fido..
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 6 of 7 [91 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Author Message
BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7752
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012, 19:31    Post subject: Re: Fixing Fido..
Subject description: permissions of /dev/console
 

L18L wrote:
Working on internationalization, see
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=583084

I have found a bug fix for permissions of /dev/console.

Apply
Code:
chgrp users /dev/console
chmod g+w /dev/console

And fido may use /dev/console too

Smile Smile Smile


Thanks, I have put this into /usr/sbin/root2user. Will upload Woof soon.

_________________
http://bkhome.org/news/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
BarryK
Puppy Master


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 7752
Location: Perth, Western Australia

PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012, 19:35    Post subject: Re: Fixing Fido..
Subject description: sudo
 

L18L wrote:
Think this can be reported here....

# sudo
sudo: >>> /etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 8 <<<
sudo: parse error in /etc/sudoers near line 8
sudo: no valid sudoers sources found, quitting
sudo: unable to initialize policy plugin
#

fix:
change line 8 of /etc/sudoers
from
#120110 added /usr/sbin/delayedrun to SYSTEM category. also, see sudo line added to script.
to
# 120110 added /usr/sbin/delayedrun to SYSTEM category. also, see sudo line added to script.

1 space after #


Thanks, /etc/sudoers fixed. Will upload Woof soon.

_________________
http://bkhome.org/news/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10548
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 21 Apr 2012, 17:20    Post subject:  

Does this mean that Fido now is fixed?
Can even people on my low level of Linux knowledge use it?
Any suggestions on how?

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8519
Location: qld

PostPosted: Mon 28 Mar 2016, 20:59    Post subject:  

I've done some work on this.

Big problems with tty's

Fido had no permission to do anything so urxvt wouldn't run, nor sakura or lxterminal.

Had to change /dev/[pt]ty to 666
/dev/pts/ to 777
change ownership of a few to to root:tty to get it working.

I have given fido a home too in /home/fido.

Barry had ownership of /dev/tty1 as fido:tty. This isn't necessary so we can convert to root and back and not break stuff in the one session.

Lots of stuff works but even more doesn't.

More to come.

_________________
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Sailor Enceladus

Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 330

PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016, 10:30    Post subject:  

This topic interests me. I do use run-as-spot sometimes also. Though I think Barry's idea of keeping fido in root makes more sense organization-wise and should be respected, as that's where root and spot also live, instead of creating a new (and boring!) /home directory just for fido. Puppy is wacky, puppy is different, puppy is NOT Ubuntu! Security through obscurity! Laughing

BarryK wrote:
I don't see why having /root as fido's home is a problem. There is some opposition to it, but as far as I can see that is only due to ingrained learning about how things should be.

When fido is chosen at first shutdown, everything in /root is set to have the correct permissions as required for fido. So, everything in /root is just as it would be as in any other home for fido.

The fundamental understanding is that Puppy is not a multi-user system, at least not in the normal way. Multiple users are accommodated by separate save-files, so there is no conflict in committing /root to be used by fido.

Except however if you want to jump from fido to administrator, and then perform some operation as administrator, in which case files with root permissions could get written into /root.
It might seem perverse, but why not set the administrator's home directory to something other than /root -- say /root0, or /administrator?
Apart from it being weird, I can't see anything wrong with doing that.

The thing is, there is so much dependency on the home directory being /root. So many PET packages have /root hard-coded.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2845
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 31 Mar 2016, 05:34    Post subject:  

Sailor Enceladus wrote:
BarryK wrote:
The thing is, there is so much dependency on the home directory being /root. So many PET packages have /root hard-coded.


The above common situation being a great pity and really unnecessary since an easy matter to have used $HOME instead of a hard-coded /root. We have tested (and sometimes included) several traditional Puppy dotpets in DebianDog - those coded to use $HOME generally worked without modification, others needed the hard-coded /root altered to $HOME. I suppose some Puppy utility writers had no interest in their apps working in other distributions than Puppy, but why limit a program unnecessarily?

William

_________________
SomeOfMyWork: pAVrecord Precord Premote DoMyFile DoMyCommand fokSyfEyeR xhippo-mod flite_hts_pet Pfetch WIAKAPPS Pcreole DebMintDogDevWork

Last edited by mcewanw on Fri 01 Apr 2016, 02:52; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7658
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 01:54    Post subject:  

In Puppy /root is $HOME

Try this in a console:
Code:
echo $HOME

How Puppy works explains it all.

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 2845
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 02:59    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
In Puppy /root is $HOME

Try this in a console:
Code:
echo $HOME

How Puppy works explains it all.


Which is the limitation I referred to, which happens to also prevent some otherwise excellent Puppy apps run on other Linux systems.

And apparently, when it comes to user 'fido' there are moves to make $HOME something other than /root, which will, as I said, require mods to some Puppy gtkdialog-based apps:

01micko wrote:
I've done some work on this.
...
I have given fido a home too in /home/fido.
...
Lots of stuff works but even more doesn't.

More to come.

_________________
SomeOfMyWork: pAVrecord Precord Premote DoMyFile DoMyCommand fokSyfEyeR xhippo-mod flite_hts_pet Pfetch WIAKAPPS Pcreole DebMintDogDevWork
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8519
Location: qld

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 06:59    Post subject:  

I can get fido to work without creating a $HOME and this will be the case in the next slacko point release (bugfix for 6.3.0) but going forward I think that Fido needs a home and that home will be in /home/.

Why?
  • Well the current state of fido is a one way street. If you want to convert back to root then fido is left completely broken. That shouldn't happen.
  • As William says, why spend time making great software when it only runs in Puppy? I can vouch for PMusic. I have tested and run it very successfully in Slackware proper, with the tray icon and all, in several DEs (including KDE).
  • I believe Porteus used (maybe still using?) PBurn as the default burner software.
  • The game is changing. Malware is rife. Unsuspecting users are cheap targets. Just because Fido is not running as 'root' does not really offer any protection when he is using the /root as $HOME.


Whatever your thought on the matter please express your opinion. I am not the be all and end all. If someone believes that they can persuade me otherwise then go for it. It's what open source is about.

_________________
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
step

Joined: 04 May 2012
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 11:56    Post subject:  

01micko wrote:
I can get fido to work without creating a $HOME and this will be the case in the next slacko point release (bugfix for 6.3.0) but going forward I think that Fido needs a home and that home will be in /home/.
I agree with you. But why making an exception to /home/fido for the next slacko point release? No $HOME is going to be confusing while it isn't a complete proof of concept for /home/fido.
_________________
Fatdog64-702|+Packages|Findnrun|+forum|OpenMediaVault
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7658
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 20:13    Post subject:  

Well, if you want to make Puppy work like other versions of Linux, I guess you can.

Puppy is different, for reasons that may be getting lost, as people, that do not fully understand the Puppy inner workings, try to add to or delete from how it works.

I understood the way Puppy's file system was setup, had to do with the working of different Pup-modes and how Puppy used memory.

As for Puppy programs working in other Linux operating systems.
That should be up to the programs developer, if he/she wants to provide a version for non-Puppy systems.
How about just offering a program that will work in any Puppy version. Idea
That is not even an easy thing to do. Shocked

Puppy is already suffering from code creep and starting to loose in how fast programs run.
Not Puppy specific programs, very much, but I have really seen a slowdown, in how fast a web browser, opens, and runs.
Those things are getting, code creep, big time.
But, they are not Puppy specific programs. Shocked

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7658
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 20:36    Post subject:  

I assume we still want Fido to be this:

Quote:
fido is another name for a dog, and is a full non-root login account, as you would get in any other Linux distro. With one peculiarity, it's home directory is /root (which may indeed seem very peculiar to you, but there is a reason for it!). As with other distros, you would use 'su' or 'sudo' to perform administrator activities.

fido always requires administrator password to perform administrator-level operations

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8519
Location: qld

PostPosted: Fri 01 Apr 2016, 21:49    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Well, if you want to make Puppy work like other versions of Linux, I guess you can.


That isn't the point. TBH, I could dispense with the /home part altoghether, just have fido live at /fido since he is the only user account supported. Actually, I might even do that.

OTOH, I could also make it a choice. "Do you want to have fido live in /root(default) or his own home? There are advantages either way and draw backs either way. Bla.. bla.."

bigpup wrote:
Puppy is different, for reasons that may be getting lost, as people, that do not fully understand the Puppy inner workings, try to add to or delete from how it works.

I understood the way Puppy's file system was setup, had to do with the working of different Pup-modes and how Puppy used memory.


I don't think that is getting lost at all. A user account has never been the goal of Puppy. It's goals are fast/user friendly which we are trying to maintain.

bigpup wrote:
As for Puppy programs working in other Linux operating systems.
That should be up to the programs developer, if he/she wants to provide a version for non-Puppy systems.
How about just offering a program that will work in any Puppy version. Idea
That is not even an easy thing to do. Shocked


The point here is that people develop habits. Some good some not good. A lot of that is a matter of opinion too. Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance).

bigpup wrote:
Puppy is already suffering from code creep and starting to loose in how fast programs run.
Not Puppy specific programs, very much, but I have really seen a slowdown, in how fast a web browser, opens, and runs.
Those things are getting, code creep, big time.
But, they are not Puppy specific programs. Shocked


I agree. Things like firefox, since it changed UI to Australis have slowed considerably. I'm always on the lookout for something better. If netsurf javascript support improves to the stage where it can capably configure CUPS then that will be my default browser of choice.

_________________
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 7658
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 02:17    Post subject:  

Quote:
Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance)

That is why you modify the program for Puppy, not modify Puppy for the program.
Tor Browser Package
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91141

_________________
I have found, in trying to help people, that the things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
01micko


Joined: 11 Oct 2008
Posts: 8519
Location: qld

PostPosted: Sat 02 Apr 2016, 03:50    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Quote:
Another thing, many programs are out there that simply do not run as root and know where their files are. (TOR for instance)

That is why you modify the program for Puppy, not modify Puppy for the program.
Tor Browser Package
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91141


Have you used Fido? Sounds like you haven't. I have done extensive testing with Fido and hence this topic exists.

Nobody is proposing to change "How Puppy Works". The proposal is to fix fido who is a broken pup. TBH, I could care less because I run as root.

_________________
Puppy Linux Blog - contact me for access
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 6 of 7 [91 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0656s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0096s) ][ GZIP on ]