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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager
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motorcity

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012, 12:05    Post_subject:  
saintless wrote:
from page 84.

Thanks saintless. Yes it is just me. Or just this old computer.

jbv wrote:
only take you 3 minutes to grab hotROXpussy

You're right, I didn't time myself but it felt like 3. Of course, (isn't there always something!) guvcview doesn't work there either. It's got to do with this computer, not the OS.
BTW, I like everything I see so far about hotROXpussy! Loaded up the firefox sqf also and that makes it much cooler than standard pussy xtra.
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012, 12:54    Post_subject:  
oldstable is lenny
stable is squeeze
testing is wheezy
unstable is sid

note that the name sid never changes, as sid always represents the absolute newest.

there are numbered versions aswell

the 4 series is etch
5 = lenny
6 = squeeze
7 = wheezy

there is no number equivelent for sid as that wouldnt work because its always being updated.

Then there are the debian live version numbers. This is different from regular debian version numbers, i havent been keeping track of these.

squeeze is the newest and most supported reliable OS that debian has to offer and it is the current flagship. The pussy alpha was created very shortly after debian moved to squeeze, debian version 6 and is the only version they support currently. Testing, wheezy isnt supported for end users it exists for expert users to report bugs etc, you report a bug but dont expect to get questions answered about it. Sid is a staging version and often it is incomplete, broken or doesnt work at all. Sid is a collection of bleeding edge (still probably many years old, bleeding edge in debian terms means that if i was to get my Ex pregnant and she was to give birth today, by the time the child is in highschool it will probably still be using applications that are current today and debian will still be calling them bleeding edge. Debian can literally be many years behind Ubuntu or other OSes) packages and its not meant to be an actual OS for people to use.

squeeze will probably be the current debian flagship for another year and a half or 2 years perhaps. Debian has been around a very long time (1993) and we are only on the 6th major release, thats only one release every 3 years and 2 months or so. Squeeze is hardly an an old horse and we arent flogging an old horse by basing pussy on squeeze
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012, 13:27    Post_subject:  
jbv wrote:
G'day,

A serious yet stupid question. If you have a computer with a Hard Drive, why would you bother with something like puppy/pussy and all of the hoops/issues associated with .sqf files?

For me, I intend to use a completely USB or Flash based configuration - for those who understand electronics/computers, think an "embedded system". Therefore it is imperative that I know the system will NEVER write back to the USB/Flash unless I instruct it to.

For me, it is worth the up-front pain, yet for a traditional (typical?) user, I can't see it.

Am I missing something?

Something I haven't considered or require, but would it be possible to unpack/explode the .sqf files into the appropriate place on a real hard drive, then replace the kernel with a real kernel, initrd etc and get a real/traditional desktop environment/configuration somewhat easily?

Cheers


pussy was created with n o mind to hdd install at all, its supposed to be run from a usb stick or live cd/ dvd

hdd support was something that was discovered later by nooby and john3voltas fairly early on after the pussy alpha release and nothing has really changed.

if you want a hdd install OS that will be used on only one system then there is no real advantage to a live system and therefore pussy.

ive found the cd/ dvd version perfectly fine on other peoples computers using the live-rw save file, i used pussy this way for months and found it to tick all the boxes for me.

hdd install is never gonna be noobish and officially supported and recommended without some major change, even tho most of us developers/ testers do end up running it like this on our home systems.
i see cdrom and usb live pussy more important than hdd installed
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motorcity

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012, 21:31    Post_subject:  
sickgut wrote:

hdd install is never gonna be noobish

I'm not really certain if that's good or bad. Actually, I have no idea if "noobish" is called for in my situation sickgut.
Here are some of my assumptions:
*Pussy is a miniaturized linux distro like Puppy, except it has a much more universal package management system. (witness hotROXpussy synaptic)
*Learning how you guys are squeezing and squashing an OS (any OS) down to it's component parts, could be very useful to a dedicated system.
*Pussy is no more inherently unsafe than any other linux because it is linux.
*Pussy should always be about portability; usb & dvd/cd & whatever comes next, the ability to plug-play-unplug-walkaway-plug & play, data & OS somewhere else is awesome!
Please note; I'm not trying to hijack this development or the conversation towards hdd install, it might leak out at times because of my outdated equipment and perhaps that leads to a question:
How dedicated should Pussy be to old stuff? I believe Puppy makes that something of importance, perhaps I'm wrong about Puppy? But is there a direction here where Pussy and Puppy differ?
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Wed 14 Mar 2012, 01:35    Post_subject:  
motorcity wrote:

How dedicated should Pussy be to old stuff? I believe Puppy makes that something of importance, perhaps I'm wrong about Puppy


Hi, Motorcity,

Puppy has versions for old hardware, laptops, and new hardware. You can't run successful any Puppy on any hardware.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think your problem with Guvcview is more web camera related than old computer related. Try to use luvcview instead. It is also included in Pussy linux. Or try to install any other web camera viewer with apt-get or Sinapthic. There should be something which will work for you.

I still consider my self as linux noob but I don't agree with Sickgut that frugal hard disk install is difficult. Installing ubuntu driving me crazy with all the questions and waiting the installing process to finish. Installing Slackware with auto install all packages option is much more fun but the process is longer.

Installing Puppy linux is perfect and I'm sure the script it uses can be edited to do the same job for Pussy linux but I'm not the one who can do it yet.

Installing Pussy linux frugal - here is my way:

1. Install GeeXbox from here (if you don't have Grub already) - easy part:
http://www.geexbox.org/
GeeXbox is small multimedia linux distro and you can wacth almost any movie format when you boot in GeeXbox. Old versions take only 8 Mb of HDD space.
It should find your previous installed OS and include them in the Grub menu.

2. Copy the /live folder on the top directory on ext or vfat partition - easy part.

3. Edit Grub with the right boot code - the difficult part which will be much more easier if we have more working examples for Grub Legacy, Grub2, Grub4Dos, Lilo.

One advice to you, Motorcity, in case your troubles are really from old hardware. You can find older versions of Debian Live CD:
http://live.debian.net/archive/images/

Pickup one and make frugal install the same way as Pussy linux. Note there might be 2 vmlinuz and 2 imnitrd.img inside because you can choose different kernel. Use only one of them by renaming or move in another folder the other two.
Then boot to the command prompt and login as user with password live.
Then create root password:
Code:
sudo passwd root

Then logout and login as root and run:
Code:
apt-get update

Then install with apt-get squashfs-tools, xorg and choose a desktop that you like - jwm + Rox, xfce4, lxde etc.
Example:
Code:
apt-get install squashfs-tools

Then delete all downloaded debian packages from /var/cahce/apt/archives and create a snapshot (squash file) with:
Code:
mksquashfs /live/cow /live/image/live/any-name.squashfs

You will get a lot of crap in the snapshot but there is no easy way to remove it without having troubles later. JBV has posted a lot information about cleaning the snapshot here in the thread.
Make sure the filesystem squash will load before your custom in /live folder. Rename them as 1-filesystem.squashfs and 2-any-name.squashfs.
Instead of snapshot you can use live-rw save file but I think Xorg and Desktop should be in a squash file to have less troubles in the future.
Reboot the computer and you have your own small OS for your old hardware.

Cheers
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sickgut


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1157
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
PostPosted: Wed 14 Mar 2012, 10:33    Post_subject:  
motorcity wrote:
sickgut wrote:

hdd install is never gonna be noobish

I'm not really certain if that's good or bad. Actually, I have no idea if "noobish" is called for in my situation sickgut.
Here are some of my assumptions:
*Pussy is a miniaturized linux distro like Puppy, except it has a much more universal package management system. (witness hotROXpussy synaptic)
*Learning how you guys are squeezing and squashing an OS (any OS) down to it's component parts, could be very useful to a dedicated system.
*Pussy is no more inherently unsafe than any other linux because it is linux.
*Pussy should always be about portability; usb & dvd/cd & whatever comes next, the ability to plug-play-unplug-walkaway-plug & play, data & OS somewhere else is awesome!
Please note; I'm not trying to hijack this development or the conversation towards hdd install, it might leak out at times because of my outdated equipment and perhaps that leads to a question:
How dedicated should Pussy be to old stuff? I believe Puppy makes that something of importance, perhaps I'm wrong about Puppy? But is there a direction here where Pussy and Puppy differ?


i dont think that hdd install in the be all and end all. Hdd install generally means that it wont be used on other computers and therefore no point in running a live system, a non live system is a little smaller and faster and can be tailored to your specific hardware needs easier and ofc no need for a save file setup. Also a live system setup like pussy that doesnt ask for setup stuff like puppy does when it boots will only ever support 95% if hardware, its a crapshoot sometimes if it doesnt work it just doesnt work and nothing you can do about it.

if we where already beta quality i would have no hassles releasing pussy on distrowatch as a live linux distro that is made to run from cdrom. dvd or usb stick, ofc there are ways to turn the iso into a usb stick bootable thingy but i see it wise to keep the dd imagable .img version as it allows for better troubleshooting because the resulting USB stick is byte for byte, 0 and 1 identical to the master usb stick that it was made from.

debian is appealing to base pussy on as it is generally older, runs an older kernel and is well tested and stable, this is also better for older systems by its very nature as its really mostly about the older kernel that benefits older systems. the squeeze kernel is ancient compared to most other distros and because of debians very long support and release cycle, if you notice newer distros dont work on your older puter, but debian does, then you can feel safe in the knowledge that for the next 5 years or so you will be able to get support for the current stable debian that works on your computer. I see older system support is more important as who the f*** wants to pay actual money for a recent model computer every few years. The magic combo of a free OS running on a free computer system you scored because your picked it up from the side of the road before it rained is very appealing. Forcing an OS to be efficient is always good but older puters force us to do this.

pussy isnt a mini distro like puppy as everything is there, there arent any shortcuts taken to make it smaller. Only the compression of squashfs 4 and deleting unwanted files that do nothing make pussy small. It runs a full sized kernel with all available features. It is every bit as functional as any other debian. I think the similar application choice and desktop environment to puppy give the impression that pussy is also a mini distro but it really isnt.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 04:19    Post_subject:  
We have announcement from Sickgut here:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=613145#613145
I hope he will get better soon. Meanwhile I will add the fixes we have chosen in Pussy linux and I will give download link to make the testing easier.

And some not directly related to Pussy linux information:

I have started to work together with JBV on a similar project based on Debian live which will not aim to run on very low RAM computers but it will aim to have the most user friendly desktop environment in favor to the new linux users. This is what I like to achieve with this project. I'm sure JBV will add more to this later.

This doesn't mean I will abandon Pussy linux project but the opposite. It will give me better ability to help to improve Pussy linux.

Cheers
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 15:16    Post_subject:  
Does anyone has errors starting mplayer with the base or extra version?
When I start mplayer from the debian menu it just freezes the system.
When I start it from Pussy menu it opens a Terminal and start opening windows with the errors on the pictures.
I suspect something in my hardware may cause the problem because I have this error with fresh downloaded ISO without live-rw save file.
You can see the error on the attached pictures.

Anyway mplayer still plays most of the video files I have.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 15:35    Post_subject:  
Did you compile your own (ffmpeg/mplayer), or are you using someone else's binary?
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 15:38    Post_subject:  
jpeps wrote:
Did you compile your own (ffmpeg/mplayer), or are you using someone else's binary?


No, Jpeps,
mplayer is included in the ISO. I suppose Sickgut installed it with apt-get.
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jpeps

Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 15:40    Post_subject:  
saintless wrote:
jpeps wrote:
Did you compile your own (ffmpeg/mplayer), or are you using someone else's binary?


No, Jpeps,
mplayer is included in the ISO. I suppose Sickgut installed it with apt-get.


You'll need different versions not only for the distribution, but for the computer.
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 15:43    Post_subject:  
jpeps wrote:
You'll need different versions not only for the distribution, but for the computer.


Thanks, Jpeps,

I think this means we should re-think what applications to include in the ISO. We will do this when Sickgut feels better.

Thanks again Smile
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 481
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 16:29    Post_subject:  
Including the main fixes in Pussy linux is done.

I used only 2-pussyOSbase2.squashfs to include all the fixes. All other squash files are untouched.

I have uploaded the squash file in:
http://www.mydrive.ch/
username: guest@saintless
password: download

The file is called 2-pussyOSbase2_fix.squashfs
There is a text file with the same name.
Just replace the original 2-pussyOSbase2.squashfs with the fixed one. It works with the base and with the extra version.

If someone think I should rebuild the ISO with the fixed squash file I don't mind to do it.

I attach here a small delta file for Aarf with the changes from 2-pussyOSbeta2.squashfs

If I get confirmation the fixed squash file is working without problems I will send it to Sickgut for the site.

Here is a list of the included fixes. You can see them in the text file also.

Quote:
Fixes in 2-pussyOSbeta2.squashfs:

1. Rox-filler focus problem - created new /etc/profile with export GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS=true line which will override the profile file from 1-filesystem.squashfs

2. Special keyboard keys fix from Emil - change in the /etc/jwm/jwmrc file:
?<!-- #DEBIAN unused -->
<Key mask="A" key="Tab">next</Key>
-->

3. Bigger fonts for X-term from JBV:
New lines in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm:

*faceName: Mono
*faceSize: 14

And one line for standard IBM-PC type keyboard for Function keys to work properly:

*sunKeyboard: true

4. Auto mount and unmount all drives script from Emil:
Added in /scripts folder + automount-all-drives script is copied in /etc/profile.d for auto mount on boot. You can find the mounted drives inside the media icon on the desktop
or in /media folder.

The /etc/profile.d folder is created in 2-base and will override the same folder from 1-filesystem.squashfs

5. Exit X problem fix from Emil:
Created new zz-xinit.sh file in /etc/profile.d with this content:
if [ -z "${DISPLAY}" ] && [ $(tty) = /dev/tty1 ]
then
startx
fi
delta_file.tar.gz
Description 
gz

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Filename  delta_file.tar.gz 
Filesize  452.9 KB 
Downloaded  65 Time(s) 

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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 18:35    Post_subject:  
xtra delta under 8 Mb! a little late but better than never Smile
http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/aarf/pussy/4-pussyxtra-beta.squashfs___4-pussyxtra-beta2.squashfs.delta
Code:
df6d6e8d74f388d67481489b44437851  4-pussyxtra-beta2.squashfs
e60599a41f7d0afa5a94e0b246772e4b  4-pussyxtra-beta.squashfs
6c7ad9190e2b40ffbad651cb78454705  4-pussyxtra-beta.squashfs___4-pussyxtra-beta2.squashfs.delta
works locally. check all md5sums before start and at finish. advise if not correct.
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aarf

Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 3620
Location: around the bend
PostPosted: Mon 19 Mar 2012, 19:14    Post_subject:  
saintless wrote:
aarf wrote:
I have a hybrid still have the older biggest squashfs, and have problems with native webcam that werent there before the latest upgrade.

Hi, Aarf,
do you mean you didn't have webcamera problem with the extra squash file with VirtualBox inside and with the last extra squash file you have a problem to run this camera?

Sickgut, If this is case may be the last extra squash file is missing some video related package from the previous one.

aarf wrote:
]No saintless i dont have the latest extra squashfs at all.

now with the latest beta2 squashfs my webcam works in LUVCview.

still to test zoneminder. spent so much time on it and failed so i am afraid it will now work using motorcitys instructions. Laughing
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