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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 11 Mar 2012, 20:28    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
another way is this Frugal boot of isos. Seems to work best with puppy.
Ooops one use puppy to mount the iso by clicking on it and then copy the dirs out to a subdir with same name as the iso see example.
Beware that the preseed need to ahve right name. ubuntu or mint or custom or ... see examples below.

I have ideas but all depends on your exact needs.


Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?

What I mean is - do you think some clever person could write a programme or script that would ask which iso you wanted to try, then automatically extracted the subdirs from the iso and added "one specific boot entry" into the menu.lst (as "TESTNEWPUPPY" for example) and then prompted the user to "now reboot".

That way all the user would have to do is:
1) Run the script
2) Choose the iso
3) Reboot
4) watch the machine start the new iso
5) Reboot the machine and choose a "non "TESTNEWPUPPY" entry if something had gone wrong with the test.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2012, 16:57    Post subject:  

Wish I could help you out. I ahve given wrong impression of
what I know and don't know. Sorry to be misleadng.

It is late ehre now so I go to bed.

I put a note here to look at this tomorrow.
thanks for putting trust in my willingness to be a hlper

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9259
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 26 Mar 2012, 19:11    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
Hi Nooby, each menu.lst entry can be different depending on what boot options are desirable, but do you think there is "one specific menu.lst boot entry" that would be suitable for every puppy iso?

This is what I use for testing:
Code:
title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz

I click on a Puppy ISO, copy the core files into the "testing" folder and reboot.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 06:58    Post subject:  

title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz

This part is a good one for puppy.

psubdir=testing That allow it to boot the sfs within that subdir
because some puppies looks for that sfs file on all drives it can mount.

And pmedia and pdev tell it to narrow down to atahd and not look on CD?
Or maybe it set the pupmode level? How often to save to that media?

IIRC there are 12 different modes?

greengeek, as you see I know almost nothing.
When I wrote what you cited that where a kind of relapse
into "Want to help out even if I know almost nothing mode"

I trust that you and I need to learn more how linux boots.

But first how bootloaders boot and when they let the linux take over
the boot.

One can see that sometimes if one look at the text that flies by. bye?

Suddenly it change from one resolution to another. My wild guess
is that that maybe indicate that it went over to the linux script inside
initrd.gz and then it is too late to give it order unless one set up
break points that stop the boot process?

Antix had such Over at their forum they gave example
if one put a 3 on the kernel line then it stop at a specific time
in the script and you can do adjustment of parameters. Going in and
tell it specific things. Using a 9 stop it at a later point and you can
tell the script something else.

I don't know if that is exclusive for that distro or that version even.

Now I need to find where I wrote that text so I can try to recall
what was on my mind at that time. Wish me luck

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=583669#583669

I gave example

Here is a starter that allow you test some 95% of all variations of Ubuntu.
I give example for a few.



title Netrunner 2011 frugal iso boot of netrunner-3.2.iso
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /netrunner-3.2.iso
kernel /netrunner/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/netrunner.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/netrunner-3.2.iso noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /netrunner/casper/initrd.lz


title Linux Mint 12 RC works ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso
kernel /LM12/casper/vmlinuz rw file=/cdrom/preseed/mint.seed boot=casper iso-scan/filename=/linuxmint-12-gnome-dvd-32bit-rc.iso ramdisk_size=1048576 root=/dev/ram noeject noprompt quiet splash --
initrd /LM12/casper/initrd.lz




title Bodhi Linux boots from bodhi_1.2.1.iso lacks mediaplayer
find --set-root --ignore-floppies --ignore-cd /bodhi_1.2.1.iso
kernel /bodhi/casper/vmlinuz file=/cdrom/preseed/custom.seed boot=casper persistent iso-scan/filename=/bodhi_1.2.1.iso quiet splash --
initrd /bodhi/casper/initrd.gz


All these three are variations of Ubuntu but they differ in preseed name.
And they differ how they treat the initrd two of them lz and one gz
only two different ways to pack them as small as possible.

such details are important. Another important thing is to not include the
hidden directory named .dist or similar name that one most often makes
it fail in an important way for my purpose.

Now what I want goes against the policy of Ubuntu so never mention
that on their forums. Not on linux mint either or other such forums.
that could result in you getting banned for being illoyal to their agenda.

They want to protect every user from doing fatal mistake and the way
I boot allow those mistakes so people tell me to not share thus glitch
in the armor.

But I am not sure what I wanted to tell you. I trust it was just my inner
emotional need to be of help that got me carried away. So sorry.

Back on topic. What you ask for is maybe partially dealt with using
something they named Underdog?

Barry had a blog entry about it recently. I try to find it.

Remember Underdog?
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=13750

Quote:
This is a very handy device for running programs in Puppy from another Linux distro whose partition Puppy Linux shares. Doesn't seem to merit much attention these days - I can't understand why that is - it's very nifty!

For example I have Vector Linux installed underneath Puppy in partition "hda"and have direct access to all these handy utils that Vector has which could be extremely useful in Puppy were they available - e.g. rpm2tgz, pkgtool, installpkg, slapt-get to name but a few.

This little script will enable underdog for you or remove the connection as required. It works by creating the file "underdog.lnx" containing a single line "hda1" (no quotes). The PC will the reboot with this file now in place in the home partition - i.e.
where your pup_save.3fs resides. If you use option 2 to remove the connection without there being an existing underdog.lnx file in the home partition, the script will simply exit without a reboot. Otherwise the script removes the file and reboots Puppy back to normal. Alter the value of variable string1 to whatever your home partition is called.

#!/bin/sh
#tronkel
#this little bash script when run from a terminal will start or remove underdog.
#system reboots after completion of script if "underdog.lnx" is present otherwise will simply #exit the shell. System will also reboot if "Start" option is selected



string1="hda1"
select item in Start Remove
do
if [ $item = "Start" ];then
touch /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
echo $string1 >> /mnt/home/underdog.lnx
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
elif [ $item = "Remove" ];then
if [ ! -e /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx ];then
echo "underdog.lnx does not exist"
exit
else
rm /initrd/mnt/dev_save/underdog.lnx
echo "underdog removed"
/usr/X11R7/bin/wmreboot
fi
else
break
fi
done


I also attach the script as a file


I screamed Wow Jay more of such things when I read it.

rcrsn51 most likely understand what it is all about.
I wish I could get it too. It is close to what we want is it not?

Barry wrote an answer linking to the blog entry
Quote:
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:40 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Underdog is described here:

http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

Yes, it is a very interesting idea, but has died through lack of interest.

Puppy no longer supports 'underdog.lnx', but I could bring it back.

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vovchik


Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 1287
Location: Ukraine

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 07:31    Post subject:  

Dear nooby,

Glad to see you back here. Hang around. We don't bite and miss your insights.

With kind regards,
vovchik
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 07:37    Post subject:  

Sorry me so confusing. My ADHD seems to have worsen due to lack of
deep sleep sleep apnea whatever.

greengeek I guess you know that hierarchically you start with
POST which most likely are built into BIOS? That is a hardware
ROM? that sequentially goes through what is attached to the Mother board.

Does it have this and that so POST check up that it can make use of them
and flag those that are defunk?

Then it start the boot order. Depending on what is default boot order
or what you have told it to have as boot order it start up floppy first
if it is a very old machine or CD-ROM if a bit more modern or if Netboot
without CD or DVD then it maybe set the internal HD as first media to boot
from. There it also look hierarchically and follow a script.

So the boot loader is rather independent of the distro. Different bootloaders
may boot same distro. Depending on if it is on CD USB one use one boot loader that suites that media best. HD has another boot loader.

So we have still not got into Linux. The boot loader let Linux take over
at a certain point.

Each linux has their own unique way to look for "cheat codes on the kernel line.

So that makes it very difficult to standardize such booting.

One would need some kind of preparation that looked through what choice
the user make at the moment of booting. So the bootloader would need to
have a very flexible script that made a lot of choice or to ask if it
got into ambigiuos demands?

You could take a look at member d4p and his link to a description on
how to set up external HD to boot 145+ linux distros and have them all
on that external usb hd? Where is the link? Smile I try to find it.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=507436#507436

But there no link to the 145+ ways of doing it? Does he have it in his profile maybe. nope he maybe took that away. But I found two persons on the web
that described it and one maybe is d4p? Where is that post then
here is the first link I gave but that guy maybe learned from d4p?
http://agnipulse.com/2011/08/install-ubuntu-hard-disk/

So I still have not found the link to d4p description in a blog entry?
d4p gives this link
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=22957&sid=8cc75ff3f71e7d561c4998a57174d363

from here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=578420#578420

I quote part of it here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=578451#578451

Here is an imprtant link maybe
http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=147959

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 14:06    Post subject:  

.
Thanks Nooby. Actually, there are several things I am trying to learn about the boot process at the moment. (Too much too learn!)

I think this is the method I should use:

rcrsn51 wrote:
This is what I use for testing:
Code:
title Testing (sda2)
root (hd0,1)
kernel /testing/vmlinuz pmedia=atahd pdev1=sda2 psubdir=testing
initrd /testing/initrd.gz

I click on a Puppy ISO, copy the core files into the "testing" folder and reboot.


This is what I want to do, and I also want to find a way to add an extra step - I want to see if it is possible to write a program or script that automatically puts the files into the correct "Testing" folder, instead of me doing it manually.

That way I would run the script, it would ask me which iso, I would tell it which iso, and it would do the copying and maybe even start the reboot too.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 15:44    Post subject:  

Is that not what the Ms Win program do that fail to work good on linux.
What was the name? Some two years has gone so I forget name.
unetbootin or similar made by an ubuntu active guy tuxcantfly his
nickname on ubuntu. It reminds me of what that program do and
most likely it is a script?

You should take a look at grub4dosconfig that is most likely a script to
and do some of those part? okay very few but you see some ofthe ways
one do gtk? dialog? Shinobar would know.

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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 15:54    Post subject:  

oops reading your title.
App to allow "live boot" of an iso on HDD??

You have to be aware that it is of little use to boot live versions.
For to protect the user who want to get familiar with a linux distro
the Devs has set up live session user very restricted in what you
are allowed to do. Sure you will be able to surf and see how it
behaves interface how one get around in menus and so on
but you are very restricted. Not even being root would allow
you to do things in some distros.

So being live has its constraints. I should read your first post
but I am too lazy just now. Hope somebody that knows more than
what I do help you further with the script.

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WindUpToy


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 89
Location: melbourne.au Slick525DVD

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 00:06    Post subject:  

An interesting discussion.

Sure, it would be nice to be able to simply boot an ISO from hard disc, but how difficult is it to burn a CD and do it the normal way?
Or are some people just too mean to "waste" discs that only cost 18cents each?

I see certain people here jumping through hoops trying to not make CDs.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

(just my 18c worth)
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11157
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 00:29    Post subject:  

I for one couldn't agree more. The beauty of running from a CD or DVD is that it offers the option of turning it into a multisession CD or DVD, which is the lazy man's way of remastering.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 01:15    Post subject:  

WindUpToy wrote:
Or are some people just too mean to "waste" discs that only cost 18cents each?


I've now got about 100 CDs with versions of puppy on them. Some are useful in CD form, but some not. If I had burnt all of the new versions of puppy isos that I have seen online that total would be closer to 200.

It is nice to be able to trial a new iso without being forced to burn a CD every time (time consuming as well as costing me about 40cents per CD. How are you managing to get them for 18c each?? Not fair!)

Many people have netbooks that don't have CD drives in any case, so it is handy to explore ways of trialling new versions of puppy without going via CD.

Of particular interest (to me anyway) in this topic is the idea of hosting the isos on a network and directly booting the iso via PXE. It is a great way to get my family and friends to see how puppy works on their machines, without installation, and whether or not they have a CD drive in their machines.

Also, I often find when I reach for a CDR that the kids have grabbed the lot and burnt mp3s. Nothing left for the oldies. I still haven't found my old CDRWs yet - shows how messy my back room is.
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kooliepup


Joined: 13 Jan 2012
Posts: 302
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 04:33    Post subject:  

Quote:
How are you managing to get them for 18c each?? Not fair!)

I'm paying $9-something, maybe $9.99 for 50 at ALDI. (A+ grade). About 20c. each.
CDs are available at markets for about 18c or less. (B+ B- and C+ grades), but never had an issue with those when I was using them.

You may be surprised at the low grades of the big name brands.
The Philips I used to use were C+.
I never knew what an A+ was until I started using Aldi's.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 06:14    Post subject:  

Philips here in Sweden where very cheap but many of them totally failed
I tested three of them yesterday none of them worked.

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musher0


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 4336
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

PostPosted: Sun 01 Apr 2012, 15:27    Post subject:  

Flash wrote:
I for one couldn't agree more. The beauty of running from a CD or DVD is that it offers the option of turning it into a multisession CD or DVD, which is the lazy man's way of remastering.


As well, even if you make a pup-save file on your HD, your CD becomes your key to your system, thus a safety feature: no optical disk, then no access to Puppy.

That said, I'll still try out some of nooby's grub listings. It would be nice to be able to run say a Mepis or a Ubuntu from iso and have a persistent file.

BFN.

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