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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Utilities
lupu-520 can't find Hard Drive
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 12:20    Post subject:  

Correction to post 9 the problem drive DOES show in GParted -it doesn't show on the LUPU 526 Desktop ie there are no icons for it at all and refreshing still shows nothing

ps at least I know it's spinning because I can hear it gently humming in it's docking station and its getting hotter as time goes on
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 13:33    Post subject:  

1. "after many hours managed to get ddrescue "installed""
GREAT!
Pity it took hours of work.
Once you have a Puppy running, and a pupsave in use, it should be easy/quick to install ddrescue using the PET.
Now you have that done you shouldn't need to do that work again...
And even if you did, I bet you'd do it MUCH faster than that.

2. "as I was about to type the command suggested into the console"
I keep telling you to type the command into a text file, then copy and paste from there to the terminal window.
I keep ALL such commands in a text file named [guess what] "commands".
At the least you can copy and paste from the commands I give below.
[Into the text file and then into the terminal window]

3. "it occurred to me that I haven't done anything to identify the source ie troublesome drive and the target drive"
It is essential that you do this!

4. "How do I do this bearing in mind that the troublesome drive doesn't show up anywhere at all on gparted but it does when the fdisk command suggested ie fdisk -l is used"
Do it any way you can!
I used GParted methinks...
But it looks like your fdisk command is the one doing it for you.
You MUST use the name of the PHYSICAL HDD [e.g. sdb] as seen [and displayed] by [any program working within] the Puppy OS.

5. "At what stage and how do I identify the drives is this automatically asked for once I type in the command on the Console or do I have as I would anticipate to do this first and if so how do I do it ?"
You MUST identify/determine the name/identity of the drive [not a partition]...
It's the [contents of the whole physical] DRIVE that you want to clone, right?
The command MUST be spot-on correct [when you paste it into place, and] before you hit <Enter>.
Once you hit <Enter> there's nothing more you should do except watch the process, and check back on it now and then.
If the process crashes before completion, just repeat the SAME command.

6. "I have looked at the command suggested by Sylvander and take it "sdc" and "sdd" were the drive names of the two being used for that particular transfer."
Exactly!
I wanted to copy [the contents of] the faulty HDD = sdc...
Into the new/good HDD = sdd.

7. "can I assume that if GParted shows my empty destination drive as sdd1 I substitute that for sdd in the command line. ?"
(a) NO!
sdd1 is the name of a partition on the drive named sdd.
[Is there a single partition=sdd1 on that drive=sdd?]
You should use the name sdd, since you want to copy from the whole of the source DRIVE to as much space as it needs on the destination DRIVE.

8. "As far as the problem drive is concerned as I explained in an earlier post while the troublesome HD isn't shown on the desktop with an icon GParted identifies it and shows it as having ,sdb1,sdb2,sdb5"
(a) Use the physical HDD name=sdb for this.
Don't use the partition names.

9. "and a partition listed as " unallocated""
Just FYI, that is NOT a partition...
It is "unallocated" space.
i.e. No partition has been made in that empty space.

10. "In the command line do I substitute sdb1 first of all for "sdc" as used by Sylvander and if so do I then have to repeat the process for each partition name ie keeping "sdd1" constant as the destination drive but each time ddrescue finishes then substituting "sdb2" and "sdb5" for Sylvamder's "sdc" each time ?"
(a) NO.
Don't use these partition names; use only the names of the 2 physical HDD's.
Source HDD = sdb
Destination HDD = sdd
i.e.
1st command:
ddrescue -f -n /dev/sdb /dev/sdd logfile [Repeat this (only if/when it crashes) until it completes the process]
And then...
2nd command:
ddrescue -d -f -r3 /dev/sdb /dev/sdd logfile [Repeat this (only if/when it crashes) until it completes the process]

11. Bear in mind that I'm no expert on this; just using the little I know to the best of my ability.
It would be nice if rcrsn51 would confirm these commands as correct.
Would you like me to find and post a link to the online ddrescue info page that I used as a guide?
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Thu 26 Apr 2012, 15:28    Post subject:  

You may find this makes you cross-eyed and confused...
Or else find it very informative and helpful.
I found it vitally useful.
GNU ddrescue Manual

The particularly pertinant part:
6 A small tutorial with examples
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 04:44    Post subject:  

@Sylvander

thanks for your helpful reply - going out right now but will read it when I get back and hopefully start the cloning process this morning.

Re the manual reference I will read that as well because I can see that Linux is a real step forward and I do want to get into it once this particular rescue episode is past.

- much appreciated.
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 07:32    Post subject:  

rescue attempt started.
Sylvander, when i copied in the command line I got the message that the output source could not be recognized. Eventually as the USB mounted empty drive which I was using as output was named as sdd1 underneath the GParted icon I changed the output to that and off it went (phew)

At the moment it is about 35-40 mins into things and the message is that so far approx 40000 Mbs have been rescued with 0 errors showing at the moment.

Will let you know how it goes - if it freezes during this initial stage do I just copy in the same command and run it again or did yours only freeze during the second stage ie retrieving the bad sectors ?

Can I safely assume that what is shown in this first run is actually now rescued and will be fully accessible later - I thing I just need that confirmation to lift my spirits ie to see some ight at the end of the tunnell.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 09:54    Post subject:  

1. "when i copied in the command line I got the message that the output source could not be recognized"
Could you post here the command you used?
What name was used [in the command] for the destination drive? sdd?
I hope partition=sdd1 wasn't mounted!

2. "as the USB mounted empty drive which I was using as output was named as sdd1 underneath the GParted icon I changed the output to that and off it went "
(a) You say "mounted empty drive"...
A "drive" cannot be mounted methinks; only the filesystem on a formatted partition can be mounted...
And...
(b) You should not attempt to use ddrescue on drives or partitions holding filesystems that are mounted methinks.
(c) What do you mean by "empty"?
No partition[s] made?
Partitions made, but none are formatted?
Partitions made AND formatted [with a filesystem], but no folder/file contents?
(d) Because you have done this...
I believe ddrescue will be cloning the source HDD into the partition=sdd1 on the destination drive...
And that is not what I think should be done.

You aught to be cloning the contents of the [suspect] source drive, so they become the contents of the new/good destination drive=sdd.

3. "the message is that so far approx 40000 Mbs have been rescued with 0 errors showing at the moment"
(a) The 1st command is designed go through ALL of the content on the source drive...
Skipping [and noting in the logfile the locations of] any faulty regions on the disk.
(b) If no faulty regions are found, the cloning would be complete.
There would therefore be no need for the 2nd command to be used.
But...you could do it anyway [just to be sure]...
And if there are no regions marked faulty and skipped...
The 2nd process would do nothing.
But it would act as a check on the 1st.
(c) The 2nd command is really only needed if faulty regions are found by the 1st process.
In which case, the 2nd command is designed to use special procedures to recover in order:
c1. The least problematic regions.
Then...
c2. The slightly more problematic regions.
And finally...
c3. The most difficult regions.
These would be given 3 tries [r3 = 3-retries in the 2nd command], and if these fail to succeed such regions would be left uncopied.

4. "if it freezes during this initial stage do I just copy in the same command and run it again"
Yes....
You do this whenever it happens, be it in the 1st or the 2nd command/process.
I had to do it many times in both.
But it's so easy to copy&paste, and hit <Enter>, so it's not a problem = it's really easy.

5. "Can I safely assume that what is shown in this first run is actually now rescued and will be fully accessible later"
(a) I'm rather concerned that the output is going into the partition=sdd1 rather than the drive=sdd.
Not sure what effect that will have.
Can you report back on what you are seeing?
(b) In my own case...
When I cloned from DRIVE to DRIVE [not drive to partition]...
At some point...
[Cannot remember exactly when, but it would be when the partitioning&formatting had been copied]
The [newly created] partition[s] on the destination HDD...
Appeared on the Puppy desktop as if by magic.
(c) I only mounted the new partition[s] after I was sure the whole process had been completed [copying/cloning was complete].
And then had a look at the contents [in the filesystem on the formatted partition] on the destination HDD.
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 10:30    Post subject:  

Sylvander

the command I used was ddrescue -f -n /dev/sdc /dev/sdd logfile which as you suggested i copied of your post into a txt file and then pasted in to the console . Only after that didn't work did I try adding the "1" on the end which started the ball rolling

I have just a minute or so ago got a mesage on the screen to say that 251 GiB have been rescud with no errors and the word " finished " at the bottom

Just a few seconds later I got a message in the same box "Display all 1549 possibilities? y/n

I pressed "y" and got a list of what I assume are Linux commands in apha order eg

aduser
alias
accept
etc

Where do I go from here eg do igo to the next line type " accept" and hit return ?

From what you wrote in your last post it seems I don't have to run your second command . Do you agree ?

Returning to the target/output HD this was an out the box Seagate Geoflex portable HD simply plugged via the USB port into my laptop - I did nothing to it at all and after it was plugged in I never saw any software running to format it etc
Will do nothing until I hear from you.

Many thanks
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 11:28    Post subject:  

Within just a few minutes I have experienced both the highs and the lows. After I made my last post I went downstairs to my laptop which has been doing the recovery work and found that it had shut down - which it sometimes does if it overheats - given that it has been on and running non stop since 9am this morning I am sure that is what has happened,

When I tried to restart it ignored the Linux drive in the cd\DVD ROM and booted back into Windows Vista. So I decided to have a look while there at what was on the External Seagate HD ie the ouput drive for the recovery exercise - basically it was blank and I got a message to the effect that if I wanted to use it I would first of all have to format it. I have a feeling this is perhaps why the sdd output command didn't work but I don't know.

Anyway rather than do that and perhaps undo anything achieved in the recovery process I decided to reboot the laptop via the CD into Linux Lupu but so far for some reason it is refusing to acknowledge there is a disk there although the BIOS shows the cd\dvd rom as first in the boot order, and it has twice booted back into Windows Vista via the laptops HD - now I am definitely not having a good day !

I will hopefully get it to boot back into Linux via the CD but it's not I suspect going to be much good in that if the output HD is there it's almost certain to be empty.

Sylvander I appreciate you may not know the answer to this but

a. Why did Linux not indicate the output HD hadn't been formatted and
b. What happened to the 251 Gib " rescued "

I am sure you will tell me I will have to go back to Windows, Format the Output HD and then go through the whole process again and after entering the command line you gave me it will this time recognize sdd without the 1.

If that's the case and I haven't done anything to lessen my chances of getting the data off the input HD then lesson learned and I won't make the same mistake again
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 12:53    Post subject:  

1. "the command I used was ddrescue -f -n /dev/sdc /dev/sdd logfile"
(a) Surely the name of the source drive should be sdb, NOT sdc !
What contents are now/presently on drive sdc?
i.e. What have you cloned into the 1st/only partition=sdd1 on the new HDD?
Not only have you [seem to have] got the destination wrong, but now you [seem to] have got the source wrong!
OUCH! Sad

2. "Just a few seconds later I got a message in the same box "Display all 1549 possibilities? y/n"
(a) Once the ddrescue process had completed...
The terminal window would return to a command prompt.
Not sure what you did then, but...
You would get the above display [about 1549 possibilities] if you had typed an "a", and hit the "Tab" key.
The terminal prog thinks you are looking for all programs that begin with "a", and is asking if you want to display all of them.
If you hit "y" it displays them.

3. "got a mesage on the screen to say that 251 GiB have been rescud with no errors and the word " finished " at the bottom"
(a) Problem is...what did you "rescue"/copy?
Apparently drive sdc.
Which drive is that?
What is held on it?
The problem drive [that you aught to be cloning] is sdb. [My understanding]

4. "Where do I go from here"
(a) Just close the terminal window.
(b) Then use GParted to look at the partitions on HDD=sdd.
(c) If satisfied that all looks OK, mount the sdd partitions [sdd1, sdd2, sdd3, or whatever] that aught to now be displayed on the desktop, and use a file browser to look at the folder/file contents.
(d) I fear you will discover you have copied the WRONG stuff...
From sdc, rather than sdb.
(e) If so, you'll need to do it again, and get it right.

5. "a. Why did Linux not indicate the output HD hadn't been formatted"
(a) Because that isn't a problem to Puppy Linux.
Puppy doesn't make any attempt to auto-mount every partition it sees.
Whereas...
It's a problem to Windows because Windows wants/attempts to mount every partition is sees...
And when it cannot, it complains.
(b) Can you tell me what Gparted sees on sdd?

6. "b. What happened to the 251 Gib " rescued ""
Puppy, and GParted, and the Puppy desktop, and a file browser should be able to tell you that.

7. "I am sure you will tell me I will have to go back to Windows"
No way! Puppy is better. Very Happy

8. "Format the Output HD"
(a) Not necessary...or shouldn't be necessary.
When you clone the [UNMOUNTED] source HDD=sdb...
To the [UNMOUNTED] destination HDD=sdd.
That will over-write EVERYTHING on the destination HDD...
Partitioning...formatting...contents..the lot.
And...
(b) Copy into its place...
All of the partitioning...formattng...contents...
Of the source HDD=sdb.

9. "If....I haven't done anything to lessen my chances of getting the data off the input HD"
(a) So long as you haven't messed up the contents of the source HDD=sdb...
And you've said nothing to suggest that's the case...
Then you can just get it right next time...
And the [probably wrong] present contents of the destination HDD=sdd...
Will just be over-written.
(b) Whatever you do...
DO NOT copy from some drive other than the problem drive...
TO the problem drive.
That would over-write the contents of your problem drive.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 13:18    Post subject:  

1. Began reading this thread again, from the beginning...
And noticed [in the 3rd post = your 2nd]...
You said the command fdisk -l said your problem HDD was sda...
With partitions sda1, sda2, sda5.

2. Then in the 15th post, at the bottom of page-1 you said...
GParted shows partitions sdb1, sdb2, sdb5 [on drive sdb].

3. So which is it !?
It is VITAL this is made clear.
The correct drive name MUST be used for both source and destination.

4. When I use the command, and then use GParted...
The partition and drive names are the same in each case.
There are NO CONFLICTING NAMES.
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 17:22    Post subject:  

I think I can explain the fact that the input source seemed to change from sda on the earlier post to sdb on the later one. When I posted at the start the problem HDD was in my PC and identified as sda.

Later I said to effect the transfer as easily as possible I had seated the problem HDD in a docking station , plugged that into my Laptop via a USB cable and also plugged into the Laptop the Output HDD which was an out the box Seagate 1TB.

I think the second setup being different from the first caused the names to change. Does that make sense?

As far as what I copied on the first run I really dont know because if I did indeed copy sdc then that is only an 8GiB USB stick which had little on it and it was 250Gib which was shown as being rescued ? which is what sdb has.

Anyway I started again put in the command line making sure that sdc was changed to sdb and it started to run and so far there are no errors. I am certain it is the Maxtor HDD ie the right one being copied because I can hear it spinning up as it is accessed so hopefully this time I will get a result.
Can't explain the mystery of the question coming up just after the first copy run finished as I did not input anything at all via the keyboard until the y/n question came up .

Will let you know how it goes although I am sure by now you are tearing your hair out - thanks for your patience.
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Fri 27 Apr 2012, 18:11    Post subject:  

1. "Does that make sense?"
Yes indeed, that explains it.

2. "hopefully this time I will get a result."
I'm hoping your outcome will be as successful as mine.
Can't wait to hear of your success! Very Happy
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ettu

Joined: 19 Apr 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 15:12    Post subject:  

Sylvander

Disk run complete the message was 251 Gib copied with no errors.


Nothing shows up in terms of new icons for the drive on the lupu528 desktop even when I shut down and reload the computer.

However when I ran GParted it listed the Seagate on to which the data was copied and when I opened it the message was that it had sdb1 and sdb2 and I think sdb5 . In all respects it looked like an exact clone of what I saw when I got GParted to look at the Maxtor problem HDD.

My problem now is I can't see what is in there in that I don't know which programme/ application to use on lupu 528 I have tried a few with no success.

Should what I am seeing be an exact clone of the Maxtor problem drive even down to the yellow triangle with the question mark inside it ie do you think the data is now there on the Seagate and it's just a question of how to access it ?
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 18:06    Post subject:  

1. "Nothing shows up in terms of new icons for the drive on the lupu528 desktop"
(a) Probably means that the problems present on the source HDD have been copied to the destination HDD, but with an important difference as follows:
The destination HDD is sound. Very Happy
i.e. It has no faulty regions on the surface of the platters.
[Unlike the source HDD, which does have faulty regions?]
So...
(b) You should attempte to FIX/repair the problems that exist on the new/good destination HDD...
[do NOT attempte to fix the source HDD at this point]
That is....
(c) Use GParted...
To display the partitions on the new/good destination HDD.
(d) Right-click on the 1st partition and click "check", and click the green tick mark at top to "Apply", then confirm.
(e) "Check" all the other partitions on the drive in turn.
[Is there an Extended partition? sdb2? Holding sdb5? If so, check sdb2 also]
[i.e. sdb1, sdb2, sdb5 should all be checked=scanned&fixed]
(f) Close GParted, and see if [any of] the partitions [actually the (now-repaired) partition_file_systems] have appeared on the Puppy desktop.

2. "Should what I am seeing be an exact clone of the Maxtor problem drive even down to the yellow triangle with the question mark inside it"
YES. Very Happy

3. "do you think the data is now there on the Seagate and it's just a question of how to access it ?"
YES. Very Happy
(a) Once the GParted "check"=scan&fix of all the partitions on the new'good destianation HDD have been completed...
[The file systems on] partitions sdb1 & sdb5 should appear on the desktop, and you aught to be able to MOUNT those and use a file explorer to browse/navigate the folder/file contents. Very Happy

(b) Should the above fail...
"I have a cunning plan" for what to do next. Very Happy
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Sylvander

Joined: 15 Dec 2008
Posts: 3262
Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK

PostPosted: Sat 28 Apr 2012, 20:56    Post subject:  

1. Oops...
Just realized...
Your new/good destination HDD is probably being seen as drive sdd, right?
Therefore the partitions would be sdd1, sdd2, sdd5.
.
.
At this time...
DO NOT attempt to "check"=scan&fix the partitions on the old HDD.
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