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The time now is Thu 23 May 2013, 01:53 All times are UTC - 4 |
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements |
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Solar powered .ca
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Caneri
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1565 Location: Canada |
To Add, Just in case there is controversy generated on this thread about solar...remember that the internet is.....
_________________ Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still. Chinese Proverb |
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tlchost
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA |
I'm waiting for the power source to be delivered by the flying saucer...after all, it is high-tech. Thom |
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Aitch
 Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 6825 Location: Chatham, Kent, UK |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dTXc4GaTszQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUY-bNxI5w&feature=relmfu By comparison America's Bioeconomy Blueprint http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7pciW7d3h0&feature=relmfu Did someone say BS?..... It should be obvious which is preferable, I hope...? Aitch 
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infromthepound
Joined: 12 Jun 2009 Posts: 79 |
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Caneri
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1565 Location: Canada |
Hiya Thom, you old hillbilly, fish eatin', piss me off, fresh fish access kind 'O guy. I hope you are well..... after that bad mouthing...I would like some UFO to save us from ourselves to put "peace" back into the equations and not just how long to stop war...good grief Charlie Brown. @sunburnt, I think 30A is what we will run at.....I was wondering about that with the cable size so 30A fits better with the length of wire...electricians will get it at least. Eric _________________ Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still. Chinese Proverb |
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sunburnt
 Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 4006 Location: Arizona, U.S.A. |
Caneri; If it`s a thick electrical cable like a water pipe it may be 60 amps... So if it`s 30 amps at 330 volts, that`s 10,000 watts of power!!! That seems like a lot, enough to run an energy efficient home! ( Switched use of the A.C., electric stove / oven, and clothes dryer. ) |
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Caneri
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1565 Location: Canada |
Yup sunburnt it's 10,000 watts or 10kW/h as far as I know and the cable is approx 1/2 inch (including casing) with 3 or 4 leads to the main breaker then on to the transformer So it should do 10,000 watts every hour in pristine conditions. More to come when I understand it all. Eric _________________ Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still. Chinese Proverb |
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tlchost
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA |
Man....what an accurate description! Yea, I'm as well as can be expected for an old curmudgeon. Trust you are well also.
Would be nice....and as probable as the folks in Redmond getting out of the computer biz. T |
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Sylvander
Joined: 15 Dec 2008 Posts: 2855 Location: West Lothian, Scotland, UK |
1.
As someone who was educated/trained/worked in Engineering... If I can still remember...My old brain tends to fail to remember all that detail. My understanding is... (a) Watts are a RATE... Like a flow rate...[e.g. gallons per minute] Or a rate of production or usage. (b) kW-hrs [there is no such thing as kW/hr]... Is a QUANTITY. (c) e.g. If you use electrical energy [Joules] at the rate of 10,000 Watts... i.e. 10,000 Joules per second. And you do that for 1 second... You will have used 10,000 Joules = 10,000 watt-seconds [A Watt is a Joule per second, a Joule is a Watt-second, i.e. a Watt expended for 1 sec] (d) 10 kW-hrs = 10,000 watt-hours = 10,000 x 3,600 = 36,000,000 watt-seconds = 36,000,000 Joules = 36 Mega-Joules = 36 MJ. And... 2.
(a) Imagine cars travelling past a given point on a motorway: Lets say there were 10,000 cars passing every hour. And I invented a name for the RATE at which cars were flowing/passing. Lets say cars-per-hour = cph. [Like the name "watts" in the case of electricity] Then I shouldn't say there are 10,000 cph every hour... Unless what I mean is that there is a constant rate of flow... It's the same every hour. Only then might I reasonably say the there are 10,000 cph... Not just this hour... Or that hour... But EVERY HOUR. Actually, its every minute, of every hour, of every day, of every month, of every year. Why choose to mention hours alone? Doesn't make sense. What you'd normally say is... That the flow rate is a fairly constant/unvarying 10,000 cph. (b) And one-hour of flow at 10,000 cph-hour =10,000 cars. i.e. A total flow of 10,000 cph over the period of a single hour... Is a total flow [which is a quantity not a RATE] of 10,000 cars. 2. Does that lot make any sense? |
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Caneri
Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Posts: 1565 Location: Canada |
Thanks Sylvander, Hope you are well. Makes more sense then my guessing about it. I never studied the math side of electricity even though I do wiring jobs from time to time. Eric _________________ Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still. Chinese Proverb |
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RetroTechGuy
 Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA |
Heat is a useful route, if you can convert it to electrical energy with some ease. Most of the solar spectrum in not at a wavelength that is useful for PV systems (and heating actually decreases their output). Bulk heating can consume all wavelengths. _________________ Wellminded Search Add swapfile |
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Aitch
Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 6825 Location: Chatham, Kent, UK |
Sylvander/others Watts isn't the originator of rate at all...it is the power of the pressure in volts MULTIPLIED BY the rate of flow of current in amps Formula: P(watts)=E(volts)xI(amps) The water analogy explains it Watt-hrs is the number of hours the power has been flowing/is used/created http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/question501.htm Joules is a measure of the energy http://ezinearticles.com/?Watts,-BTU,-Joules---What-Do-They-Mean?-Energy-Terms-Explained&id=3883976 We used to measure energy in Btu, which equated to HP more easily, as 746watts=1HP=2545 Btu/hr http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy99/phy99x45.htm ha ha, that's possibly added to the confusion...[I'm old school] sorry to be late with the response guys Aitch
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RetroTechGuy
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA |
And so, you want to accumulate enough "gallons" to keep you going during the dry period. Using that, at 10 kW, you accumulate ~ 10 kW-h of energy each hour at that rate. Depending on your location, you might only get 4-6 hours of full sun, which would be 40-60 kW-h of energy (assuming 100% efficiency, etc). Most homes draw well in excess of 1kW, or > 24 kW-h per day. _________________ Wellminded Search Add swapfile |
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Aitch
Joined: 04 Apr 2007 Posts: 6825 Location: Chatham, Kent, UK |
To be aware of the extravagance of energy, that 10kW equates to about 13.4HP per hour - imagine feeding, watering and looking after those horses for all the work they are doing...... The simple [rough] memory reminder I used to use was 3kW per hour=4HP per hour=10000BTU [as BTUs is energy used, whereas Watts is a measure of power] In modern parlance, a Joule per second is a Watt, so Joules mount up pretty quickly http://www.mhi-inc.com/Converter/watt_calculator.htm We really should be thinking in terms of using less, not how to (re)produce what we usually waste....generally as heat losses on our buildings Aitch
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RetroTechGuy
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Posts: 2301 Location: USA |
It's not so much that he will be burning 10kW, it's that in the depths of winter, he might only get an average of 2-4 hours full sunlight/day (NREL shows that November tends to be the worst month, due to general cloudiness). But potential solar power is only part of the equation, the other half is storage vessel. The peeps I know who use solar recommend 3-5 days worth of storage capacity, in addition to a backup generator (just in case you get a long stretch of cloudy weather). You can shrink the storage...the more willing you are to use the genny to cover shortfalls. In the US, the average home uses about 11,500 kW-h per year. http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 There are 8760 hours/year, so they're burning an average of 1.3 kW. Another perspective: http://www.physics.uci.edu/~silverma/actions/HouseholdEnergy.html Because of the 3-5 day storage recommendation, those who run solar power also recommend working hard to get your average consumption down to about 500 W, before migrating to solar... Not quite a factor of 3 reduction for storage batteries... Another thing to consider is, while the sun doesn't shine at night, the wind often blows -- a combo system might be a choice. However, given the size of that solar grid, I suspect that Caneri is planning to produce surplus power, and sell it back to the grid (then the grid becomes the "storage battery"). From that standpoint, solar works well -- peak power generally occurs during the day, with everyone running their air conditioners and such. If their capacity increases during the day, this reduces the need to build new power plants. Decentralizing power production also has the benefit that you can potentially reduce the losses that occur in the grid (one drawback is that you also have a massive book-keeping problem, shutting down all those sources, when you need to work on parts of the grid). _________________ Wellminded Search Add swapfile |
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