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 Forum index » House Training » Bugs ( Submit bugs )
Saluki / Lucid525/528 USB Boot hang (SOLVED)
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 13:58    Post subject:  Saluki / Lucid525/528 USB Boot hang (SOLVED)
Subject description: USB boot freezes due to syslinux version incompatibility
 

Saluki and Lucid USB boot freeze problems.

I have encountered two problems trying to boot either Saluki or Lucid from USB sticks. Both of these operating systems show both of the fault symptoms. The two faults are not identical, but very similar, and can both be overcome by the same method.

I have mentioned this problem with Saluki here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=73687&start=2865
and Brown Mouse echoed something similar with Lucid 528.005 two posts after mine. I have now done more extensive testing to confirm that both Saluki and recent Lucid versions consistently show this behaviour on my hardware.

Symptom 1:
After installing either Saluki or Lucid 528.005 to usb stick I am unable to boot from the stick due to an error early on in the boot process, where the screen hangs forever saying:

SYSLINUX 4.05 EDD 0x4f131b2f Copyright (C) 1994-2011 H Peter Anvin et al.

If I forcibly turn off the power and reboot immediately the stick will boot correctly without further problems. However, if the power is left off for 20 seconds or more before the reboot, the problem will return (making troubleshooting efforts a bit confusing and time consuming...) I thought this may have been an issue with a “slow” usb stick, so I tried a faster one and got symptom 2:

Symptom 2:
After installing either Saluki or Lucid 528.005 to a faster usb stick I am unable to boot from the stick due to an error early on in the boot process, where the screen hangs saying:

“Invalid or damaged Bootable partition”

I trialled a number of Puppies to verify the operation of my hardware and the reliability of the usb sticks and have so far proven the following:

I experience this problem with Saluki 17, 20 and 21 (no other Salukis tried yet), and Lucid 525 and 528, including 528.005

I do not experience this problem with Lucid 5.2, Racy 5.3(EDIT - unconfirmed - see later notes), RacyNOP 5.2.2, Slacko 53, Slacko Fat, or Puppy 4.3.1. (I have not tried to see if other puppies show this problem or not, as I feel this is sufficient so far to confirm an issue with Saluki and recent Lucid)

How to get past the problem:

EDITED to improve clarity:To get past the problem I used a Puppy 4.3.1 live CD to run Gparted on this stick, then used the universal installer to install 4.3.1 to the stick, then I used a Saluki live CD to remove the 3 puppy 4.3.1 files and replace them with the appropriate Saluki versions. It worked perfectly. However, puppy 4.3.1 is now ancient and I don’t know if this is an appropriate fix, so I also tried a similar thing with a more recent Racy, as follows:

*** EDIT: Please temporarily ignore this boldtype section as I am conducting further tests to confirm some variables)
I can get Saluki or recent Lucids to boot correctly from USB stick if I do the following:
1) Use Racy 5.3 live CD to Gparted the stick.
2) Use the universal installer to load Racy 5.3 to the stick.
3) Shut down, remove the CD, then reboot to confirm that the stick boots Racy53 correctly, then shutdown again.
4) Remove the usb stick, and reboot (using pfix=ram) from the Saluki CD.
5) Plug in the Racy53 usb stick.
6) Mount the usb stick and remove the Racy 53.sfs, VMLinuz and init.rd files.
7) Mount the Saluki CD and copy the Saluki version of those files onto the usb stick. I also copied the adrive and zdrive files but do not know if that was necessary....***TEMPORARILY IGNORE THIS BOLD SECTION***


It is tempting to say that this is “just a fault with the Saluki and Lucid universal installer”, but I think it may be an issue with the SysLinux bootloader or, in particular, the ldlinux.sys file. I don’t have the experience to be clear about where the problem lies, but at least using these methods I can get a working Saluki usb install.

In a further effort to pin down the problem, I tried doing the reverse. I used the Saluki Gparted and universal installer to create a faulty usb stick, then booted from a Racy53 live CD and removed the Saluki sfs, vmlinuz and init.rd files, and copied the Racy53 files to the stick. The problem remained. I then did a similar thing, but copied Racy53 to the stick via it’s universal installer. This corrected the problem and I was able to boot successfully.

(My conclusion is that Saluki Gparted is ok, Saluki files are ok, but Saluki method of creating a bootable usb stick is not ok. The Racy 5.3 installer DOES seem to be ok.)EDIT: Further investigation underway

HARDWARE:

I have only experienced this problem on my Acer eMachines netbook (manufacturing date 1009 which I think is a USA format, suggesting September 2010). This machine has Intel N450 cpu and 1gb ram. The problem did not occur on my Acer Aspire One with similar specs (except older 270 cpu) and a date code of 0909 (September 2009?). I do not have any other hardware recent enough to do adequate testing of Saluki (I tried it on my older Toshiba TE2100 but it seems unsuitable for Saluki).

I briefly stumbled across some bug reports on other forums that suggest usb boot freeze problems on HP mini netbooks, so it is possible that something like USB port hardware or BIOS type might be contributing.

I imagine that there are millions of Acer netbooks in circulation, and Saluki is a perfect OS for these machines so if others experience this problem it is a large target market that might reject Saluki and Lucid if they are unable to boot from a usb stick (which is a handy way of bypassing the inbuilt Windows OS without having to modify the HDD installation).

Last edited by greengeek on Fri 05 Sep 2014, 01:03; edited 2 times in total
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5384
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 15:02    Post subject:  

First possible cause for USB flash drive boot problems.
Some computers will only boot from USB flash drives that are formatted fat, Fat16 or Fat32.
So make sure that is the format of the flash drive.
The Puppy Universal installer may not do this formatting (by default) in newer Puppies.
Bootflash install Puppy to USB program does specifically what it says. It will setup and do install using fat format.
menu->setup->Bootflash

One possible cause to check.

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When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected Shocked
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 15:33    Post subject:  

bigpup wrote:
Some computers will only boot from USB flash drives that are formatted fat, Fat16 or Fat32.
So make sure that is the format of the flash drive.

Thanks, Bigpup. In my tests I am booting from an EXT2 partition. (I should have mentioned that). The netbook seems happy to boot from EXT2, as I now have quite an extensive collection of usb sticks with different installs on them, all booting from either Fat32 or EXT2

My main concern is that Saluki and recent Lucids behave differently from all the other puppies I have tried.

I suspect many newcomers trying out Puppy will be wanting to boot their netbooks etc from USB so that they can leave their Windows installs untouched, and if Lucid and Saluki have usb boot problems those users will be put off.
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nilsonmorales


Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 516
Location: El salvador

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 15:39    Post subject:  

my usb install works fine whit this method
i like a frugal install
http://nilsonmorales.blogspot.com/2012/04/tutorial-usb-multiarranque-puppy-linux.html
i dont know maybe help
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 17:00    Post subject:  

I just tried my testing again, but this time formatting the whole stick as Fat32 (incl lba and boot flags), and the results are as follows:

Racy53 gives an error message of "Missing Operating System"
Lucid 528.005 says "Could not find Linux image"

However, If I format the stick with Puppy 4.3.1 Gparted and use it's universal installer to install the 4.3.1 files the stick boots fine.

Also, if I then remove the 4.3.1 files, and manually replace them with the corresponding Lucid 528.005 files, the stick will boot Lucid correctly.

So, my message if anyone else is experiencing boot issues with recent Lucid or Saluki, is create the bootable USB stick with Puppy 4.3.1, and then copy the newer puppy files across instead of the 4.3.1 vmliuz, initrd.gz and .sfs file.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9259
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 18:47    Post subject:  

Using the Saluki 021 Live CD and the Universal Installer, I set up a flash drive that worked fine.

However, Slacko failed until I ran the following command:

Code:
chmod 1777 /tmp


Quote:
I have only experienced this problem on my Acer eMachines netbook

USB bootability has always been a black art.

Last edited by rcrsn51 on Fri 04 May 2012, 22:33; edited 1 time in total
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shinobar


Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 2631
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 19:36    Post subject: Re: Saluki and Lucid 525 / 528 USB Boot freeze.
Subject description: USB boot freezes.
 

greengeek wrote:
I experience this problem with Saluki 17, 20 and 21 (no other Salukis tried yet), and Lucid 525 and 528, including 528.005

I do not experience this problem with Lucid 5.2, Racy 5.3, RacyNOP 5.2.2, Slacko 53, Slacko Fat, or Puppy 4.3.1. (I have not tried to see if other puppies show this problem or not, as I feel this is sufficient so far to confirm an issue with Saluki and recent Lucid)

Good job, greengeek, making this list. It appears an issue with the new version of extlinux and your hardware. The extlinux version on Saluki and Lupu 525/528 is 4.03. The Lupu 520 and the others have extlinux 3.73.

You can install syslinux-3.73 (extlinux is a part of the syslinux package) from Puppy-common repository.
ftp://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/pet_packages-common/syslinux-3.73.pet
Type 'extlinux --version' to confirm the version. To re-install extlinux, mount the USB (i assume it is at '/mnt/sdb1'), type 'extlinux -i /dev/sdb1'.

The grub4dos is also worth to try instead of the extlinux. I never use the Universal Installer nor syslinux/extlinux Wink

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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012, 23:56    Post subject:  

Quote:
1) Use Racy 5.3 live CD to Gparted the stick.


WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS COMMON USUS TO GPARTED THE STICK TO WHAT ?

Gparted to some weird filesystems no one knows of like vfat-18 or xjtmpfs ??

I newer used to make a boot flag and was successful . I have read that this is only needed for programs/bootloaders that explicitly look for the boot flag ..

Will check if the bootflag may cause these problems .

I boot with legacy grub from USB and SDCARD , using /usr/sbin/grub-install . Debian grub-0.97 may not support ext4 .
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 06 May 2012, 03:57    Post subject:  

Karl Godt wrote:
WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS COMMON USUS TO GPARTED THE STICK TO WHAT ?
Gparted to some weird filesystems no one knows of like vfat-18 or xjtmpfs ??

Karl, you are right, my first post was not clear enough. I have made some edits to make it a bit more clear.

Also, I have made some more tests in order to try to minimise the variables. (When I tried to duplicate my results with Racy53 it seemed that the symptom was slightly different than I thought)

So here are some more detailed results of my testing with Racy 53:

(Sorry that this is a bit confusing and long winded - I want to try to find exact information)

I use an 8Gb USB stick. For this test I use Gparted to create the whole stick as one Fat32 partition. I set boot and lba flags on.

1) If I boot from the Racy53 CD and use the Racy53 Gparted and universal installer to load Racy53 the USB stick will not boot my netbook. FAIL
2) If I boot from a Puppy 4.3.1 CD and use the 4.3.1 Gparted and universal installer to load 4.3.1 to the stick it will boot my netbook correctly. SUCCESS
3) If I boot from 4.3.1 CD and use Gparted to partition the stick, then use the universal installer to load 4.3.1, then boot from Racy53 CD and use the Racy53 installer to load Racy53 to the stick it boots correctly. SUCCESS
4) If I boot from Racy53 CD and use Gparted to partition the stick then boot from 4.3.1 CD and use the universal installer to install 4.3.1, then boot from the Racy53 CD and use the universal installer to load Racy53 it will not boot. FAIL (This suggests to me that there is something different about the newer version of Gparted)
5) If I boot from 4.3.1 CD and run Gparted, then shutdown (without loading 4.3.1 files), then boot from Racy53 CD and run the universal installer the stick will not boot. FAIL This suggests to me that my USB stick is only formatted correctly when it is exposed to both the 4.3.1 Gparted, and also the 4.3.1 universal installer.

There seems to be some magic in the combination of the 4.3.1 Gparted and 4.3.1 universal installer.

So the answer is this:

Use 4.3.1 to run Gparted. Use universal installer to load 4.3.1. Boot with newer Puppy CD, run the newer universal installer and install that newer Puppy and then shutdown.

I have confirmed that this works with Racy53, but it does not quite work with Saluki or Lucid 528.005. With Saluki or Lucid 528 it is necessary for me to avoid the universal installer. So, use 4.3.1 to Gparted the stick, use 4.3.1 installer to copy 4.3.1 to stick. Boot from Saluki or Lucid CD, insert and mount stick, delete 4.3.1 vmlinuz, initrd,gz and sfs files, then manually copy the Saluki or Lucid vmlinuz, initrd.gz, and the sfs files to the usb stick.

More research to follow later.
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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9259
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun 06 May 2012, 18:23    Post subject:  

greengeek wrote:
1) If I boot from the Racy53 CD and use the Racy53 Gparted and universal installer to load Racy53 the USB stick will not boot my netbook. FAIL

That is correct. If you watch closely while the Universal Installer is running, you will see the "unsafe permissions" error message. You will also see that the file ldlinux.sys is NOT written to the flash drive, so it can't boot.

This is because the folder /tmp does not have its "sticky bit" set. I don't know why syslinux cares, but you can fix it with.
Code:
chmod 1777 /tmp
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 14:25    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
You will also see that the file ldlinux.sys is NOT written to the flash drive, so it can't boot.
This is because the folder /tmp does not have its "sticky bit" set. I don't know why syslinux cares, but you can fix it with.
Code:
chmod 1777 /tmp


I have now tried this as follows:

Boot from Racy53 CD
Accept default first run setup parameters
Open terminal and type chmod 1777 /tmp
Insert 8Gb usb stick
Run Gparted and make single FAT32 partition of whole stick
Set boot and lba flags
Run universal installer
When finished, shutdown machine and wait 5 mins
Reboot machine from usb stick

Failure message is still "Missing operating system".

Attached is a shot of the contents of the usb stick (taken from Saluki which is installed on another usb stick)
Racy53 chmod test boot fail_.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   34.09 KB
 Viewed   1994 Time(s)

Racy53 chmod  test boot fail_.jpg

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9259
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 15:01    Post subject:  

Interesting. There is definitely something slightly different about your particular machine.

Reading back through your tests, I notice that you had failures with Saluki. I checked and it DOES have the /tmp permissions set correctly.

I can't see how it's a Gparted issue, which suggests that the new syslinux is causing the trouble.
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 15:26    Post subject:  

HaHa all this makes me feel good running Puppy 4.3.x

And why use FAT ?

I would use a linux fs ..

Hey the sell 1GB flash for under one euro !!

I really think this all new has something to do with converting permissions/filenames into the defaults : x for textfiles and 8:3 filenames (puppy_wary_5.99.999.sfs would be a ~20:3 filename for example) and mount tells
Code:

DEVICE=`echo "$@" |grep -o '/dev/.*' |awk '{print $1}' |sed 's|^"||;s|"$||' |sed "s|^'||;s|'$||"`
#[ "$DEVICE" ] || { echo "Error, DEVICE not specified (correctly).";exit 1; }
func_get_fs_type(){
if [ "$DEVICE" ];then
FS_TYPE=`guess_fstype "$DEVICE"`
if [ ! "$FSTYPE" -o "$FS_TYPE" = 'unknown' ];then
FS_TYPE=`disktype "$DEVICE" |grep 'file system' |awk '{print $1}'`;fi
if [ ! "$FSTYPE" -o "$FS_TYPE" = 'unknown' ];then
FSTYPE='';fi
#bash-3.2# guess_fstype /dev/sdb1
#unknown

#/dev/sdb1 on /mnt/sdb1 type vfat
#(rw,
#relatime,
#fmask=0022,
#dmask=0022,
#codepage=cp437,
#iocharset=iso8859-1,
#shortname=mixed,
#errors=remount-ro)
echo "FS_TYPE='$FS_TYPE'"
fi
}
[ -c "$DEVICE" -o -b "$DEVICE" ] && func_get_fs_type

This is something i have put into /bin/mount to play with the mount options (if i have time)
Mount options for fat
(Note: fat is not a separate filesystem, but a common part of the
msdos, umsdos and vfat filesystems.)

blocksize=512 / blocksize=1024 / blocksize=2048
Set blocksize (default 512).

uid=value and gid=value
Set the owner and group of all files. (Default: the uid and gid
of the current process.)

umask=value
Set the umask (the bitmask of the permissions that are not
present). The default is the umask of the current process. The
value is given in octal.

dmask=value
Set the umask applied to directories only. The default is the
umask of the current process. The value is given in octal.

fmask=value
Set the umask applied to regular files only. The default is the
umask of the current process. The value is given in octal.

check=value
Three different levels of pickyness can be chosen:

r[elaxed]
Upper and lower case are accepted and equivalent, long
name parts are truncated (e.g. verylongname.foobar
becomes verylong.foo), leading and embedded spaces are
accepted in each name part (name and extension).

n[ormal]
Like "relaxed", but many special characters (*, ?, <,
spaces, etc.) are rejected. This is the default.

s[trict]
Like "normal", but names may not contain long parts and
special characters that are sometimes used on Linux, but
are not accepted by MS‐DOS are rejected. (+, =, spaces,
etc.)

codepage=value
Sets the codepage for converting to shortname characters on FAT
and VFAT filesystems. By default, codepage 437 is used.

conv=b[inary] / conv=t[ext] / conv=a[uto]
The fat file system can perform CRLF<‐‐>NL (MS‐DOS text format
to UNIX text format) conversion in the kernel. The following
conversion modes are available:

binary no translation is performed. This is the default.

text CRLF<‐‐>NL translation is performed on all files.

auto CRLF<‐‐>NL translation is performed on all files that
don’t have a "well‐known binary" extension. The list of
known extensions can be found at the beginning of
fs/fat/misc.c (as of 2.0, the list is: exe, com, bin,
app, sys, drv, ovl, ovr, obj, lib, dll, pif, arc, zip,
lha, lzh, zoo, tar, z, arj, tz, taz, tzp, tpz, gz, tgz,
deb, gif, bmp, tif, gl, jpg, pcx, tfm, vf, gf, pk, pxl,
dvi).

Programs that do computed lseeks won’t like in‐kernel text con‐
version. Several people have had their data ruined by this
translation. Beware!

For file systems mounted in binary mode, a conversion tool
(fromdos/todos) is available.

cvf_format=module
Forces the driver to use the CVF (Compressed Volume File) module
cvf_module instead of auto‐detection. If the kernel supports
kmod, the cvf_format=xxx option also controls on‐demand CVF mod‐
ule loading.

cvf_option=option
Option passed to the CVF module.

debug Turn on the debug flag. A version string and a list of file
system parameters will be printed (these data are also printed
if the parameters appear to be inconsistent).

fat=12 / fat=16 / fat=32
Specify a 12, 16 or 32 bit fat. This overrides the automatic
FAT type detection routine. Use with caution!

iocharset=value
Character set to use for converting between 8 bit characters and
16 bit Unicode characters. The default is iso8859‐1. Long file‐
names are stored on disk in Unicode format.

quiet Turn on the quiet flag. Attempts to chown or chmod files do not
return errors, although they fail. Use with caution!

sys_immutable, showexec, dots, nodots, dotsOK=[yes|no]
Various misguided attempts to force Unix or DOS conventions onto
a FAT file system.

FROM "man mount"
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2668
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 16:18    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
Interesting. There is definitely something slightly different about your particular machine.

Yes, it is rather annoying that there can be significant differences from one machine to another. I do hope to pin this issue down a bit better though, because I suspect any other user who tries a usb install on some of the recent puppies (and using a netbook similar to mine) may have similar troubles.
And I think there would be many people who would prefer to leave the inbuilt Windows partition alone, and simply carry a usb stick with a recent puppy to boot from. (I have to run the Windows partition for work related firmware updating programmes and DOS work but use Puppy for all my other stuff)

Karl wrote:
HaHa all this makes me feel good running Puppy 4.3.x
And why use FAT ?

Yes, good old 4.3.1! The reason for using Fat at the moment is this: I want to be sure that any new Puppy user can boot their netbook with Saluki, Lucid, Slacko, Nop etc etc installed to a usb stick, and leaving their windows installation untouched.

If you buy a usb stick from the store it is likely to be formatted as some version of FAT, and many people would want to simply plug it in and install Puppy. I want to make sure that this process works.
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3972
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2012, 09:50    Post subject:  

I would strongliest recommend to look at this :

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/files/Ext2fsd/

I have installed this driver (comes with gui) on one XP and one 7 installation and it works even to mount ext4 partitions .

ext4 is involving and i don't know if this driver supports all current ext4 parameters, but the fs creation utilities with their default values (ie mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdb#) should work OK .

The gui is a little too sophisticated especially when not run at Win bootup but otherwise works great .

When this driver is installed, then there is no need for FAT !
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