Precise Puppy RC2, October 20, 2012

[peebee]

Precise Alpha-3:
(D) Downloaded and installed 'peebee's patch'
Precise 5.2.55 k3.2.17 Upload 2405121315 [wlan0]

wlano working perfect... connect automatically upon CD reboot and am posting from it now.

Overall: Looks like Precise is coming together finally, at least at my end!

>>>---Indian------>

Hi sszindian

That's a bit surprising as it's not clear that you've got a Broadcom wifi - which is what the wl driver supports....

Would be interested to see the output from lsmod and dmesg to see what is being loaded if you would care to share.

Cheers
peebee

[Billtoo]

Manual frugal install to flash drive.

I was able to install the proprietary Nvidia driver but it gave a
warning about mismatched versions of gcc.

I installed a firefox 12 pet and videos at cnn wouldn't play, it gave
a message saying the flash player plugin needed to be installed.
I downloaded the flashplayer plugin from adobe and installed it in
/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins,the new plugin is 17406436 bytes, the one that
was already in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins is 10131640 bytes.

It is working okay but taking a screenshot of a video playing at cnn
doesn't work, the screenshot ends up with a black square where the
video was playing.

Precise Puppy, version 5.2.55 on Thu 24 May 2012

Chip description:
0.0 VGA compatible controller
NVIDIA Corporation GF114 [GeForce GTX 560 Ti] (rev a1)
oem: NVIDIA
product: GF110 Board - 12630002 Chip Rev

X Server: Xorg
Driver used: nvidia

X.Org version: 1.11.4
dimensions: 1920x1080 pixels (513x292 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

...the above also recorded in /tmp/root/ as report-video,
and archived with xorg.conf and Xorg.0.log as report-video-full.gz
# glxgears
138569 frames in 5.0 seconds = 27713.615 FPS
139836 frames in 5.0 seconds = 27967.168 FPS
139596 frames in 5.0 seconds = 27919.040 FPS

[sszindian]

Per your request...here yea go peebee!

# lsmod
Module Size Used by
i915 286213 2
drm_kms_helper 18386 1 i915
drm 123968 3 i915,drm_kms_helper
i2c_algo_bit 3620 1 i915
video 9552 1 i915
iptable_mangle 912 0
iptable_nat 2591 0
nf_nat 9865 1 iptable_nat
ipt_REJECT 1509 1
nf_conntrack_ftp 4169 0
nf_conntrack_irc 2423 0
iptable_filter 804 1
xt_state 795 4
nf_conntrack_ipv4 7239 7 iptable_nat,nf_nat
nf_conntrack 38329 6 iptable_nat,nf_nat,nf_conntrack_ftp,nf_conntrack_irc,xt_state,nf_conntrack_ipv4
nf_defrag_ipv4 771 1 nf_conntrack_ipv4
ip_tables 7227 3 iptable_mangle,iptable_nat,iptable_filter
arc4 962 2
rt2800usb 10629 0
rt2800lib 32588 1 rt2800usb
crc_ccitt 1027 1 rt2800lib
rt2x00usb 6292 1 rt2800usb
rt2x00lib 25024 3 rt2800usb,rt2800lib,rt2x00usb
mac80211 142102 3 rt2800lib,rt2x00usb,rt2x00lib
cfg80211 119289 2 rt2x00lib,mac80211
rfkill 10064 1 cfg80211
snd_intel8x0 19759 0
snd_ac97_codec 77535 1 snd_intel8x0
ac97_bus 698 1 snd_ac97_codec
snd_pcm_oss 28135 0
snd_mixer_oss 10062 1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_pcm 47439 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
snd_seq_dummy 915 0
snd_seq_oss 18929 0
snd_seq_midi 3280 0
snd_rawmidi 11761 1 snd_seq_midi
snd_seq_midi_event 3596 2 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi
snd_seq 32434 6 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event
usblp 7543 0
snd_timer 11590 2 snd_pcm,snd_seq
snd_seq_device 3509 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq
snd 33962 10 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_seq_oss,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq,snd_timer,snd_seq_device
soundcore 3255 1 snd
snd_page_alloc 4765 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm
pcspkr 1195 0
sg 16874 0
e100 21467 0
i2c_i801 6154 0
i2c_core 12744 5 i915,drm_kms_helper,drm,i2c_algo_bit,i2c_i801
shpchp 18163 0
intel_agp 8065 1 i915
intel_gtt 9478 3 i915,intel_agp
agpgart 18206 3 drm,intel_agp,intel_gtt
ppdev 4030 0
parport_pc 18396 0
parport 21199 2 ppdev,parport_pc
evdev 5773 0
button 3315 1 i915
processor 22166 0
thermal_sys 9594 2 video,processor
hwmon 873 1 thermal_sys
fuse 47536 0
aufs 121631 44
squashfs 19009 1
floppy 41435 0
#
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is 'part' of the dmesg (using command: #dmesg | less) if you need it all let me know?

nd whiteout found, 10, err -5
[ 4176.864822] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23703]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 6, err -5
[ 4176.864835] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23703]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 19, err -5
[ 4180.958590] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23768]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 11, err -5
[ 4180.958607] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23768]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 10, err -5
[ 4180.958626] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23768]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 6, err -5
[ 4180.958640] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23768]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 19, err -5
[ 4182.305112] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23796]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 11, err -5
[ 4182.305128] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23796]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 10, err -5
[ 4182.305147] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23796]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 6, err -5
[ 4182.305160] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23796]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 19, err -5
[ 4185.056250] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23879]: I/O Error, both of real entry and whiteout found, 11, err -5
[ 4185.059697] aufs au_lkup_dentry:273:rdev[23879]: I/O Error, both of real entr:

>>>---Indian------>

[shinobar]

It is the first time I have got a "black screen" after rebooting.

@L18L and Barry
How about more delay in the /sbin/pup_event_frontend_d?
For example, sleep 2 --> sleep 3

sleep 2 #let the dust settle after X has started.
#w471 slow cpus need more delay (well, rox does)...
DELAYFACTOR=0
CPUMHZ=`grep -m 1 -i '^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo | tr -d ' ' | cut -f 2 -d ':' | cut -f 1 -d '.'`
[ $CPUMHZ ] && [ $CPUMHZ -gt 100 ] && DELAYFACTOR=`expr 1100 \/ $CPUMHZ`
[ $DELAYFACTOR -gt 0 ] && sleep $DELAYFACTOR

[sszindian]

Hmmm... BK must have some 'thingy' about Leaf-Icons since even in beta-3 There Isn't Any Leaf (menu) and I have seen this mentioned since way back when.... even before Precise.

On the serious side... Where might one install .sfs files to be tested in Precise since we don't seem to have a mnt/home file? Do we create it ourselves? Currently running all tests on a live CD.

>>>---Indian------>

[CHLee]

When I first run(pfix=ram) seamokey2.8 in console , the output as below:

Code: Select all

# mozstart 

(process:26029): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
	Using the fallback 'C' locale.
LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/gecko-mediaplayer-dvx.so [libcurl-gnutls.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/gecko-mediaplayer-qt.so [libcurl-gnutls.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/gecko-mediaplayer-rm.so [libcurl-gnutls.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/gecko-mediaplayer-wmp.so [libcurl-gnutls.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]
LoadPlugin: failed to initialize shared library /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/gecko-mediaplayer.so [libcurl-gnutls.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]

(process:28412): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
	Using the fallback 'C' locale.
NOTE: child process received `Goodbye', closing down
# 

Seem Precise Puppy version 5.2.55 missing the libcurl-gnutls.so.
Thanks,
C.H.Lee

[peebee]

Per your request...here yea go peebee!
# lsmod

Hi sszindian - thanks for sharing

As I suspected, your lsmod output shows that wl is not being used - so loading my Broadcom wl pet should have had no influence on your system whatsoever unless there is some thing in the initialisation logic provided by rerwin that alters things to your benefit. I've looked at the logic pretty closely and can't see why it would help for anything other than Broadcom chips. Maybe it's just altering timing in some way....

So - a mystery!!

If you have the time and inclination it might be worth doing a pmodemdiag on the non-working system before loading my pet and then on a working system after you've loaded my pet and send that to rerwin to see if he can detect what is happening.

Otherwise - just enjoy that it is working now - but be prepared for it to stop again in the future I think.

Cheers
Peter

[Billtoo]

This shows up when running the new2dir script:

Step 4
The following line is about to be executed:
# installwatch -o /tmp/pkginstall.list make install
...this logs all file activity to /tmp/pkginstall.list
This script will then determine all newly created directories
and files and create '../cmus-v2.4.3-i686' with the new files.
(and optionally ../cmus_DEV-v2.4.3-i686, ../cmus_DOC-v2.4.3-i686, ../cmus_NLS-v2.4.3-i686)
Press ENTER key to continue:
/root/programs/cmus-v2.4.3/scripts/install: line 25: 16519 Segmentation fault $GINSTALL -d -m755 "${to}"
INSTALL /usr/local/bin/cmus
/root/programs/cmus-v2.4.3/scripts/install: line 26: 16521 Segmentation fault $GINSTALL $flags "$i" "${to}"
INSTALL /usr/local/bin/cmus-remote
/root/programs/cmus-v2.4.3/scripts/install: line 26: 16523 Segmentation fault $GINSTALL $flags "$i" "${to}"
make: *** [install-main] Error 139

[BarryK]

Hi Barry, thanks for the precise alpha3.

Small request.
1. /etc/profile
Please remove the LC_COLLATE setting. We have never seen any problem without this.

Code: Select all

#v426 recommended by MU, avoid crashing for non-English locales on some apps...
export LC_COLLATE=en_US

2. mtpaint
We hope the mtpaint upgraded to the version 3.40.

OK, removed from /etc/profile.

Regarding mtPaint, see my blog post:
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02847

[BarryK]

Working ok here - one thing had to set run action for mounting .4fs save files.

Thanks, fixed.

[Sage]

The refusal of a number of recent Puppies to correctly detect some state-of-art monitor/video card/resolutions is exasperating (cf. James C & co.) and has propagated to Precise. One report suggests it's the fault of Xorg. Collating from a number of reports, it seems that 1440x900 widescreen led monitors with 1024x768 (cf. DaveS or was it Terriphi?) is the most problematic combo to work with. Sometimes loading the nV or ATI driver helps, but if there's a SiS graphics chip present, a persistent bad guy recently, nothing seems to work with this release except VESA. Shame really; can anything be done to patch or should one resort to older monitors and add-in cards which generally work OK with a deal of persuasion?

Aside:-
[Good news: gifted a K6-II/500 which runs Wary extremely well.]

[BarryK]

video driver upgrade is not possible:

OK, I will fix that. This pup is built with Xorg from Ubuntu Precise Pangolin, it is already Xorg 7.6 and has mesa, so nothing to upgrade. The Video Upgrade Wizard needs to recognise that and not offer an upgrade.

EDIT: I have implemented a basic fix, in script /usr/local/video_upgrade_wizard/video_upgrade_wizard.

[L18L]

It is the first time I have got a "black screen" after rebooting.

@L18L and Barry
How about more delay in the /sbin/pup_event_frontend_d?
For example, sleep 2 --> sleep 3

sleep 2 #let the dust settle after X has started.
#w471 slow cpus need more delay (well, rox does)...
DELAYFACTOR=0
CPUMHZ=`grep -m 1 -i '^cpu MHz' /proc/cpuinfo | tr -d ' ' | cut -f 2 -d ':' | cut -f 1 -d '.'`
[ $CPUMHZ ] && [ $CPUMHZ -gt 100 ] && DELAYFACTOR=`expr 1100 \/ $CPUMHZ`
[ $DELAYFACTOR -gt 0 ] && sleep $DELAYFACTOR

my CPUMHZ is 1544 -> DELAYFACTOR=0
But this time I had no black screen so I am not sure if sleep is ok.
Maybe I had been playing too much with backgrounds?
___________________________________________
edit 2012-05-26
had black screen again so I will add 1 second:

Code: Select all

#[ $CPUMHZ ] && [ $CPUMHZ -gt 100 ] && DELAYFACTOR=`expr 1100 \/ $CPUMHZ`
[ $CPUMHZ ] && [ $CPUMHZ -gt 100 ] && DELAYFACTOR=$((1600 / $CPUMHZ)) # 1 sec for my 1514 MHZ CPU

___________________________________________

----
I will put translation of
/root/Choices/ROX-Filer/README.txt
into my langpack-template

[BarryK]

Pemasu's build of Precise Puppy had the Broadcom wl wifi driver built-in to the iso....

I have compiled the driver under this version and uploaded:

Precise 5.2.55 k3.2.17 Upload 2405121315 [wlan0]

See here for background

Cheers
peebee

peebee,
Would you mind doing that again soon? I need to recompile the kernel in a running Precise Puppy, to avoid the gcc mismatch problem (current kernel compiled with Wary 5.3).

I will stick with the 3.2.x series, as that is what Ubuntu Precise Pangolin is using. I will grab the latest 3.2.x soon, compile it, and that will be our kernel for the release version of Precise Puppy, and we will stay with it for sometime.
So, you guys will be able to compile any 3rd-party drivers that you want.

...I guess that I had better do that soon, as I know many people will want their nVidia, wl, etc., drivers.

I just remembered something. I don't have the 'wl' firmware in Woof. is it available in pemasu's Upup thread? I think that I recall, it is, plus mods to b43 firmware tarball?
...but, I also seem to recall, there are still some issues with that?

I just checked, the latest is 3.2.18, I might as well use that.

[LateAdopter]

Hello Barry

This Puppy does not like ATI Radeon graphics.

If I set Radeon in the xorgwizard then X does not start.

If I copy ati_drv, radeon_drv, fbdev_drv and fbdevhw_drv to the modules drivers folder and delete vesa_drv, and delete Xorg.conf so that X auto configures, then X does start and load the correct drivers but there are errors in the Xorg.log and acceleration is disabled.

The errors are:

[ 12.893] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so
[ 12.893] (II) [KMS] No DRICreatePCIBusID symbol, no kernel modesetting.
[ 12.893] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[ 12.893] (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
[ 12.893] (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
[ 12.893] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/libfbdevhw.so
[ 12.900] (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 12.900] compiled for 1.11.4, module version = 0.0.2
[ 12.900] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 11.0
[ 12.901] (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such device
[ 12.901] (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support

and

[ 13.177] (WW) RADEON(0): Direct rendering disabled
[ 13.177] (EE) RADEON(0): Acceleration initialization failed
[ 13.177] (II) RADEON(0): Acceleration disabled

For comparison fatdog 600a2, which also has Xorg 1.11.4 and does work, gives this in the log:

[ 9.656] (II) Loading /usr/X11R7/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so
[ 9.656] (II) [KMS] Kernel modesetting enabled.
[ 9.656] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for vesa
[ 9.656] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[ 9.656] (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
[ 9.656] (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
[ 9.661] (II) Loading /usr/X11R7/lib64/xorg/modules/libfbdevhw.so
[ 9.666] (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 9.666] compiled for 1.11.4, module version = 0.0.2
[ 9.666] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 11.0
[ 9.666] (II) RADEON(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section

and

[ 9.850] (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled
[ 9.854] (II) RADEON(0): Setting EXA maxPitchBytes
[ 9.854] (II) EXA(0): Driver allocated offscreen pixmaps
[ 9.854] (II) EXA(0): Driver registered support for the following operations:
[ 9.854] (II) Solid
[ 9.854] (II) Copy
[ 9.854] (II) Composite (RENDER acceleration)
[ 9.854] (II) UploadToScreen
[ 9.854] (II) DownloadFromScreen
[ 9.854] (II) RADEON(0): Acceleration enabled

It looks like the kernel is lacking KMS

I did previously try setting Radeon in xorgwizard on Pemasu's version based on a2, and X did not start either. That had a different kernel. So I may be barking up the wrong tree.

[peebee]

peebee,
Would you mind doing that again soon? I need to recompile the kernel in a running Precise Puppy, to avoid the gcc mismatch problem (current kernel compiled with Wary 5.3).

...I guess that I had better do that soon, as I know many people will want their nVidia, wl, etc., drivers.

I just remembered something. I don't have the 'wl' firmware in Woof. is it available in pemasu's Upup thread? I think that I recall, it is, plus mods to b43 firmware tarball?
...but, I also seem to recall, there are still some issues with that?

I just checked, the latest is 3.2.18, I might as well use that.

Hi Barry

No problem - once you issue the new precise then I'll recompile the wl driver. - [UPDATE] Now done - see http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76495 [/UPDATE]

There is actually no "firmware" as such with the wl driver - all the proprietary stuff comes as a binary image with a bit of source code wrapper that has to be recompiled for each kernel version seemingly.

That being said, rerwin has produced some broadcom "firmware" but actually as I understand it what he is doing is use the firmware mechanisms to determine which is the best Broadcom solution for each chip type.

So there are 3 types of driver :

b43 - this does have real firmware and there are later versions available than have been shipping in recent puppies - pemasu has provided later firmware versions in his pups

brcm - this comes as part of recent kernels and is for instance present in slacko - it does have some real firmware I think

wl - this is Broadcom proprietary and has no real firmware separate from the driver - it is all built-in - I have been providing versions for recent woof-based pups

Then there is rerwin's "firmware" which tries to manage it all and is still somewhat experimental.

This is only my understanding - I may well be wrong - but Richard will no doubt correct if I am....

Cheers
peebee

[pemasu]

I just got report that Precise Puppy might have same problem that I faced with Dpups.
Gtkdialog applications starts slower than they should. Radky has been the main bug finder and he has counted many times the starting time of gtkdialog apps.

It was detective work with strace command to trace the reason. At last I noticed that gtkdialog apps called gconv-modules.cache file. Which was missing. Woof packages-templates > glibc/usr/lib/gconv does not have template for it. Libc6 deb package provides that file.

So...here is the pet to fix that bug. Also woof might need fixing to include that file template for Upups and Dpups.

[stu90]

Hello Barry

This Puppy does not like ATI Radeon graphics.

If I set Radeon in the xorgwizard then X does not start.

If I copy ati_drv, radeon_drv, fbdev_drv and fbdevhw_drv to the modules drivers folder and delete vesa_drv, and delete Xorg.conf so that X auto configures, then X does start and load the correct drivers but there are errors in the Xorg.log and acceleration is disabled.

The errors are:

[ 12.893] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so
[ 12.893] (II) [KMS] No DRICreatePCIBusID symbol, no kernel modesetting.
[ 12.893] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[ 12.893] (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
[ 12.893] (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
[ 12.893] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/libfbdevhw.so
[ 12.900] (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 12.900] compiled for 1.11.4, module version = 0.0.2
[ 12.900] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 11.0
[ 12.901] (EE) open /dev/fb0: No such device
[ 12.901] (WW) VGA arbiter: cannot open kernel arbiter, no multi-card support

and

[ 13.177] (WW) RADEON(0): Direct rendering disabled
[ 13.177] (EE) RADEON(0): Acceleration initialization failed
[ 13.177] (II) RADEON(0): Acceleration disabled

For comparison fatdog 600a2, which also has Xorg 1.11.4 and does work, gives this in the log:

[ 9.656] (II) Loading /usr/X11R7/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/radeon_drv.so
[ 9.656] (II) [KMS] Kernel modesetting enabled.
[ 9.656] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for vesa
[ 9.656] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for fbdev
[ 9.656] (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
[ 9.656] (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
[ 9.661] (II) Loading /usr/X11R7/lib64/xorg/modules/libfbdevhw.so
[ 9.666] (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 9.666] compiled for 1.11.4, module version = 0.0.2
[ 9.666] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 11.0
[ 9.666] (II) RADEON(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section

and

[ 9.850] (II) RADEON(0): Direct rendering enabled
[ 9.854] (II) RADEON(0): Setting EXA maxPitchBytes
[ 9.854] (II) EXA(0): Driver allocated offscreen pixmaps
[ 9.854] (II) EXA(0): Driver registered support for the following operations:
[ 9.854] (II) Solid
[ 9.854] (II) Copy
[ 9.854] (II) Composite (RENDER acceleration)
[ 9.854] (II) UploadToScreen
[ 9.854] (II) DownloadFromScreen
[ 9.854] (II) RADEON(0): Acceleration enabled

It looks like the kernel is lacking KMS

I did previously try setting Radeon in xorgwizard on Pemasu's version based on a2, and X did not start either. That had a different kernel. So I may be barking up the wrong tree.

Hi LateAdopter,

If you back up your /usr/lib/mesa directory then install this .deb and run through xorgwizard again do you get accelerated graphics?
http://mirror.pnl.gov/ubuntu//pool/main ... 3_i386.deb

If you uninstall the .deb then restore your /usr/lib/mesa directory.

[BarryK]

Note to Barry:

one thing I miss in your builds that seems to be common now in everybody else's builds is "sfs load on the fly" - is there a reason why you don't include this facility??

Thanks
peebee

My reply here:
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02848

[sszindian]

Alpha-3

There are problems with either Seamonkey-9 or the automatic Flash Player that Precise installs. Sorry to say but I did not test this function with the original installed Seamonkey-8... I saw the new Seamonkey-9 was available from BK and installed that for testing.

The problem is not noticable while serfing most average websites but occurs when into a complex-page such as a Newspaper with lots of stuff going on in the initial-page, like where they try to cram everything at you especially the ads.

Anyway, these type pages do not render properly with portions overlaping one another or giving you a double-take (twice installed advertisement etc.,) and it slows the Flash Player down to almost a stop where it's almost impossible to read anything that is available... in fact, I've had a dialog box appear AFTER getting out of such sites on my desktop telling me the Flash Player is still running and that it might hinder the speed of my program... do you want to stop it now?

>>>---Indian------>