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Douwe01nl
Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 14
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Posted: Sun 17 Jun 2012, 17:07 Post subject:
caps |
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@RayCtech
in previous setups i had good results capping the powerlines on the board, so i plan to do Alix in (hopefully near) future. I used to use Siemens Sikorel caps combined with small mkp's.
Two questions:
- are oscons better than sikorels for use on Alix?
- what is the reason for the high voltage (in stead of 6v or 16v)?
Thanks!
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wlowes
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sun 17 Jun 2012, 21:27 Post subject:
ALIX Caps & nrpacks=20 & bios |
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Douwe01
CAPSI have just added caps to the Alix board. Things are sounding very nice.
I use a lot of OSCON SEPC caps to good advantage in my DAC. On power supplies I find nothing compares to BlackGates. Organic polymers very close. Both need 100+ hours to really strut their stuff. I had a few BGs in the cap drawer. I added little miniture BG PK 50v .22u as a bypass on the pins of the big 220u electrolytes. Also on right on the pins of the power input. I then put a BG F 100u 50v also on the input pins. No room in the enclosure so I attached it on the upper side near the memory and ran twisted pair over to the input pins.
I must say the sound is quite outstanding.
I have a bunch of oscon surface mount 16v 220u. I might look around on the board for spots that could benefit in the future. Right now can't stop listening.
nrpacks
I am running with nrpacks=20. I too think it adds clarity and space around instruments. There is a fair discussion on my tunning thread on AA. The net is I added the line
options snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
to the end of the file alsa-base.conf
It is found in /etc/modprobe.d
I believe that this sets the option for the driver at the time it is loaded. Otherwise (as you have discovered) you have to disconnect the USB, reboot and issue the modprobe command to load the driver with nrpacks=20. Then when you connect the usb, the driver is already there with the option set.
Bios
I picked up the USB->serial converter, figured out how to get it going and then discovered as you point out that tinybios does not control much of anything. I followed the recommendations of another site and set serial speed to 115000, and enabled UDMA. I have no idea if this helps anything.
Very cool that you did a videochipectomy. I think the fact that it helped tends to suggest that the optimal boards for SQ are those that have no extra hardware. My 3d2 is pretty good. the 1d? may be even better in that it has connectors on one end and leds on the other, and no extra chips. You likely have the best of all now in that you have Award bios and thanks to your hot air gun, no video chip. I also read that on boards like mine that have no battery you can simply solder one in where indicated in the mask. It would be nice if it remembered the date and time between boots if not connected to the net to find an ntp server.
Thanks for sharing your research.
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wlowes
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sun 17 Jun 2012, 21:48 Post subject:
Re: caps |
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| Douwe01nl wrote: | @RayCtech
in previous setups i had good results capping the powerlines on the board, so i plan to do Alix in (hopefully near) future. I used to use Siemens Sikorel caps combined with small mkp's.
Two questions:
- are oscons better than sikorels for use on Alix?
- what is the reason for the high voltage (in stead of 6v or 16v)?
Thanks! |
Another really good combination is to replace your small mkps with some Russian silver mica. I use 1000v 1500pf to great advantage as the bipass. The theory is that the rigid nature of the mica eliminates the effect of movement that plagues film caps. I use them to bipass russian mgbo2 pio caps for coupling tubes. Very nice.
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wlowes
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sun 17 Jun 2012, 22:43 Post subject:
A/B comparison of nrpacks 1 -15 - 20 |
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[quote="ldolse@Douwe01nl, I've been watching the discussion between wlowes & phofman regarding this USB setting over on Audioasylum, and I'm not positive that wlowes entered the command in a way that would do anything. Based on what I've read thus far, in order for it to work you would need to kill mpd (because it has the sound device open), unload the existing alsa USB driver, reload it with the nrpacks setting, then re-start mpd. These should be the lines to paste into the CLI: | Code: | /etc/init.d/20.mpd stop
modprobe -r snd-usb-audio
modprobe snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
/etc/init.d/20.mpd start |
Note based on the previous discussions I linked I'm still not certain if these commands will do anything. They were relevant to older kernels, but were apparently hardcoded recently - it's unclear whether the command will still override the hard-coding, but keep me posted if you think you hear anything. If you're convinced you do they can be made permanent via an init script, I can post instructions for that if need be.[/quote]
Ildose,
Thanks for this information. I did not realize modprobe -r would unload the driver so easily. With this set of cmds, it is easy to flip quite rapidly between different settings of nrpacks. I picked off a few tracks with very good resolution. I played 30 seconds of each of 6 different tracks at nrpacks=20
then swithced to nrpacks=1. ARG!! While sound quality still very good, the soundstage collapsed back into the distance and a feeling of constraint sets in like the air is thick and hard to breath. There just is no air and space compared to nrpacks=20. I tried settings at 10 and 15. much better than 1, but still not as good as 20 IMHO.
So now I want nrpacks to stick between boots! (they are never satisfied!). Am I correct that adding
options snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
to the end of the file alsa-base.conf
will cause nrpacks=20 to be set after reboot, or should we add something to a startup script somewhere?
The sound is the best I have heard to date. This puppy can howl!
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ldolse
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 358
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Posted: Sun 17 Jun 2012, 23:11 Post subject:
Re: A/B comparison of nrpacks 1 -15 - 20 |
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| wlowes wrote: | I picked off a few tracks with very good resolution. I played 30 seconds of each of 6 different tracks at nrpacks=20
then swithced to nrpacks=1. ARG!! While sound quality still very good, the soundstage collapsed back into the distance and a feeling of constraint sets in like the air is thick and hard to breath. There just is no air and space compared to nrpacks=20. I tried settings at 10 and 15. much better than 1, but still not as good as 20 IMHO. | Excellent, glad that's clearly working for you - It doesn't surprise me that the highest numbers are the best - sometimes it's not about the lowest latency - I can see why a musician would want to set it to 1, but for playback I can't see any reason. I saw that phofman actually hacked his kernel at one point to allow for even higher numbers, may have to look at that some time in the future.
| wlowes wrote: | So now I want nrpacks to stick between boots! (they are never satisfied!). Am I correct that adding
options snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
to the end of the file alsa-base.conf
will cause nrpacks=20 to be set after reboot, or should we add something to a startup script somewhere?
The sound is the best I have heard to date. This puppy can howl! | Regarding getting it to stick, I've read about editing alsa-base.conf in several places, so I assume that will work (and it would be the preferred way to do it if it does work). If you're not entirely sure it is working I was thinking about just sticking an init script in /etc/init.d/, something like this: | Code: | #!/bin/sh
case "$1" in
start)
modprobe -r snd-usb-audio
modprobe snd-usb-audio nrpacks=20
;;
esac | And name is something like 00.usbnrpacks, so it's executed before mpd. But that would be more of a hack, so I hope the other method works.
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RayCtech
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 06:03 Post subject:
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| ldolse wrote: |
@RayCtech, in order to progress further on why mpd won't start you'll need to edit /etc/init.d/20.mpd to uncomment the echo statements, I'm at a loss as to why it won't start. My only suspicion at this point is that the NAS drive isn't getting mounted before mpd gives up - the debug statements will help with that. PM me if you need detailed steps on editing the file.
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The NAS drive gets mounted, but not on the first try.
The un-edited /etc/init.d/20.mpd echos -> "Network drive mounted, starting mpd",
and that have happened all the time...
I have edited the /etc/init.d/20.mpd and uncommented the echo statements,
and then there is one instance of "Network drive not mounted" before the mount/start message.
Must still start mpd manually.
| ldolse wrote: |
Regarding the keyboard, you've thrown me for a loop - there should be zero differences in how drivers get loaded for CD vs SATA vs USB. I'll ping the other Puppy Linux forum members on this because I don't believe many of them monitor this thread, and at this point I've got no other ideas.
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This must be a X problem with the Intel chipset/BIOS as I get one error message at (intermittent) boot telling there is problem with i915 Intel chipset.
This error message is intermittent (not every boot).
With the message at boot there is X problems.
Without the message at boot the message I can run X up to 1600x1200 and no problems.
I installed a 4GB USB flash drive from mpdPup and when removing the mSATA
and booting from the USB flash there is no differences at all.
There have been smaller X problems with ubuntu, lubuntu and debian 32/64bit,
but the problem have only happened at some boots, and the only iisue have been that the display resolution dropped down to 1024x768.
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ldolse
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 358
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 06:28 Post subject:
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It does sound i915/bios related then - you might go into the Bios and see if there are any settings where you can dumb down/simplify the system's behavior and see if that helps. I'll do some more research on my side, but odds are I won't be able to get to the bottom of this one for the next release - X isn't particularly critical for mpdPup, and it's probably going to require some changes to the foundation of the system, which I wasn't planning to mess with on the next release.
Regarding mpd not starting, I do see that as more critical and want to resolve it before I get the next version out. After re-reading the startup script I see I'm executing mpd by calling it from nice, you could try deleting 'nice -15' to see if that helps any on your system. In the meantime I've been meaning to rewrite the startup script to use start-stop-daemon, use nice a bit differently, etc, I'll pm you with a re-written version of the script, probably tomorrow.
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RayCtech
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 06:59 Post subject:
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| ldolse wrote: | | It does sound i915/bios related then - you might go into the Bios and see if there are any settings where you can dumb down/simplify the system's behavior and see if that helps. I'll do some more research on my side, but odds are I won't be able to get to the bottom of this one for the next release - X isn't particularly critical for mpdPup, and it's probably going to require some changes to the foundation of the system, which I wasn't planning to mess with on the next release. |
I will test test the USB flash on a 4 core 2.5GHz system where there is no X problems,
and check if mpdPup/X works stable.
I will start searching for another motherboard for the mpdPup.
Are there any recommended motherboards ?
Would this system be a good candidate ??
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc/fit-pc2i-specifications/
| ldolse wrote: | | Regarding mpd not starting, I do see that as more critical and want to resolve it before I get the next version out. After re-reading the startup script I see I'm executing mpd by calling it from nice, you could try deleting 'nice -15' to see if that helps any on your system. In the meantime I've been meaning to rewrite the startup script to use start-stop-daemon, use nice a bit differently, etc, I'll pm you with a re-written version of the script, probably tomorrow. |
Without 'nice -15' mpd starts !!
I have one additional question:
With DHCP I could connect from MPoD/MPaD using ´tunes.local´
With Static IP I must use the IP address.
Is there any easy way to use Static IP and still connect using the ´tunes.local´
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wlowes
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 09:03 Post subject:
MB choices |
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RayCtec
I'm sure you've seen in this thread, we're having very good success with mpdpup on the ALIX 3D2. $90 direct from PC Engines. Another $25 for case and CF card. Any old walwort PS from 7-18V and you are in business. For bit perfect playback only however. No high quality resampling possible. Bit of a change in direction. You could free up the current rig for other duties. Or use it as your music NAS.
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RayCtech
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 09:41 Post subject:
Re: MB choices |
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| wlowes wrote: | RayCtec
I'm sure you've seen in this thread, we're having very good success with mpdpup on the ALIX 3D2. $90 direct from PC Engines. Another $25 for case and CF card. Any old walwort PS from 7-18V and you are in business. For bit perfect playback only however. No high quality resampling possible. Bit of a change in direction. You could free up the current rig for other duties. Or use it as your music NAS. |
Yes - the current Atom DN2800MT board could become a new NAS.
The ALIX 3D2 might be a good solution, but I need to aim a bit higher for the library size and file types I will use...
EDIT:
Tested the 4GB USB flash on my super tweaked i5 2405S 4 core with sucess...
Last edited by RayCtech on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 01:43; edited 1 time in total
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ldolse
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 358
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:39 Post subject:
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@ RayCtech, Awesome, glad removing nice fixed the problem - I'll still run the edited script by you later, since there seems to be something special about your system - I'm starting to wonder if the problems are unique to your board, but it might still be worth the effort.
Regarding the static IP and tunes.local, it should have worked - I've always use static IPs at home and have never seen this issue - I actually just tested it on a VM since I'm away from home and it worked fine. I'm starting to think your motherboard has a real hatred of Linux (nice, avahi, and X all not working properly), not really sure what's going on.
As to board recommendations, I agree with wlowes - mpdPup 'should' run with just about any board, but there are a high percentage of happy Alix users on this thread, and the Alix is a long life board targeted at embedded applications. If you still want to have VGA then use the Alix1d or 3d3. My own personal board is the Intel D945GSEJT, but it's a bit harder to come by these days as it's no longer in production - still some stock here and there. I would say generally speaking that Atom should still be a good choice, I prefer the processor in general vs the Geode on the Alix. Definitely worth some due diligence with Google on the Linux stability - there do seem to be a variety of issues with the DN2800MT, some of which match your own experiences on this thread (Logic Supply had some general Linux warnings relating to the graphics chipset). The Fitpc box looks good on the surface, and they seem be back Linux in general, so that's all good.
Regarding performance, I think you're over-estimating the CPU requirements - even though you have a lot of high res content you needn't worry about CPU, it really only comes into play if you wanted to do resampling/upsampling, and with the bit rates you're talking about for source material that's definitely not neccessary.
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RayCtech
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 14:40 Post subject:
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| ldolse wrote: | @ RayCtech, Awesome, glad removing nice fixed the problem - I'll still run the edited script by you later, since there seems to be something special about your system - I'm starting to wonder if the problems are unique to your board, but it might still be worth the effort.
Regarding the static IP and tunes.local, it should have worked - I've always use static IPs at home and have never seen this issue - I actually just tested it on a VM since I'm away from home and it worked fine. I'm starting to think your motherboard has a real hatred of Linux (nice, avahi, and X all not working properly), not really sure what's going on. |
I am now running mpdPup on a Gigabyte GA-H67A-USB3-B3 motherboard and a Intel Core™ i5 2405S 2.50/3.3 GHz Quad core CPU with 8GB RAM. Except from the X issues (X works on this board) the other issues is identical.
This is both when booting with the CD or USB Flash.
Where is the tunes.local set ?
I can check if I can set it manually.
| ldolse wrote: | | As to board recommendations, I agree with wlowes - mpdPup 'should' run with just about any board, but there are a high percentage of happy Alix users on this thread, and the Alix is a long life board targeted at embedded applications. If you still want to have VGA then use the Alix1d or 3d3. My own personal board is the Intel D945GSEJT, but it's a bit harder to come by these days as it's no longer in production - still some stock here and there. I would say generally speaking that Atom should still be a good choice, I prefer the processor in general vs the Geode on the Alix. Definitely worth some due diligence with Google on the Linux stability - there do seem to be a variety of issues with the DN2800MT, some of which match your own experiences on this thread. |
Most of the issues is due to Intel´s bad choise of GPU, and should not be a problem without X.
| ldolse wrote: | | Regarding performance, I think you're over-estimating the CPU requirements - even though you have a lot of high res content you needn't worry about CPU, it really only comes into play if you wanted to do resampling/upsampling, and with the bit rates you're talking about for source material that's definitely not a requirement. |
Both the Atom and the i5 is clocked down: Atom from 1.86GHz to 7xxMHz and i5 from 2.5GHz (3.3GHz Turbo) to 1.6GHz so speed is not an issue by itself - expect 2 - 5% CPU usage.
It is also other issues like 1Gbit network and not the 100Mbit on the Alix that I prefer with 500MB to 12GB music files.
I think a Intel NUC at just above $100 will be the next system I test and tweak:
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/127903-watch-out-raspberry-pi-intel-unveils-ultra-small-next-unit-of-computing-pc[/url]
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ldolse
Joined: 23 Oct 2009 Posts: 358
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 15:22 Post subject:
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So to confirm, are you saying all the following are still true on the Gigabyte board:- Won't boot from USB Flash
- Needed to delete nice -15 from the mpd startup script
- tunes.local won't work with a static IP
Regarding tunes.local, the hostname tunes comes from /etc/hostname
.local comes from successfully starting avahi - check to see if it's still running on your system after you configure the static IP.
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RayCtech
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 15:45 Post subject:
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| ldolse wrote: | So to confirm, are you saying all the following are still true on the Gigabyte board:- Won't boot from USB Flash
- Needed to delete nice -15 from the mpd startup script
- tunes.local won't work with a static IP
Regarding tunes.local, the hostname tunes comes from /etc/hostname
.local comes from successfully starting avahi - check to see if it's still running on your system after you configure the static IP. |
USB flash will not boot when created with unetbootin.
When created from mpdPup it works on both systems.
nice -15 - this I will/need to double check.
Edit: mpd now starts with ´nice -15´ on the Gigabyte board.
tunes.local - do not work
Edit2: I may need to make a new ´raw´ test installation as mpdPup now works stable,
and I have started to tweak the configuration.
Last edited by RayCtech on Tue 19 Jun 2012, 02:43; edited 1 time in total
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wlowes
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 35 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Mon 18 Jun 2012, 20:51 Post subject:
Alix power |
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Slightly off topic, but for the ALIX crowd.. get out your soldering iron. Replaced the stock 220u electrolytics with Nichocon 270u 16v organic polymers.
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