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Aitch
Posts: 6518
Joined: Wed 04 Apr 2007, 15:57
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK

#41 Post by Aitch »

A DIY molten salt setup would be both expensive and potentially dangerous as salt melts at around 230 degrees Celcius, achieved by focusing many parabolic mirrors on a tower

http://www.reuk.co.uk/Molten-Salt-for-Heat-Storage.htm

Nevada's new molten salt setup even produces power at night, but cost many millions of dollars

http://inhabitat.com/nevadas-new-molten ... -sun-sets/

A concentrated solar water heating setup should be within your capabilities, though, using an insulated swimming pool as a heatstore, with insulating balls floating on the surface, [or other method of store of choice] and heatpumps to convert the low grade heat to higher grade for heating the house/buildings...or try utilising the planet's natural latent heat with underground pipes tapping the heat, also fed to heatpumps....but be aware, if there is a power outage, you'll need to supply power to all pumps, compressors, fans and control equipment

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/therm ... orage.html

http://diygeothermal.com/

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geotherma ... festo.html

Tricky business, energy...the secret is to reduce use to a minimum, rather than try to produce as much as you're used to using...unless you intend to become a local supplier...with all the responsibility for people lives that carries...?

Aitch :)

aarf

#42 Post by aarf »

something stinks…can you smell it too[quote]
Truckers test LNG
Bloomberg News
Tuesday, May 22, 2012
Chad Porter wants to run his 18-wheeler trucks on frozen natural gas across Canada’s Rocky mountains
even before the world’s longest chain of refueling stations gets built to keep them fueled.
The chief operating officer of oil services company Ferus Inc. bought two vehicles to test liquefied
natural gas and reckons switching from diesel may cut 22 percent from his fuel bill, or about $1 a
gallon. At the moment, Calgary-based Ferus uses mobile tankers to refuel his trucks, which cost about
$100,000 more than conventional vehicles, adding expense to a project that’s about saving money. A
Royal Dutch Shell Plc project will make it easier to fill up.
Shell’s plan to spend $250-million on an LNG plant and a string of filling stations is the biggest single
investment yet in making frozen gas a transport fuel, a shift advocated by proponents of energy
independence including billionaire investor T. Boone Pickens. Switching engines to run on LNG is
becoming economic because a glut of fuel from North America’s shale rocks has made the U.S. the
world’s largest natural-gas producer and forced prices to record discounts versus crude oil.
“LNG holds great potential as a transport fuel,

Sage
Posts: 5536
Joined: Tue 04 Oct 2005, 08:34
Location: GB

#43 Post by Sage »

The use of salt melts as solar collectors and storers is not new. Although they've been in discussion for at least 40yrs, only two very large installations (Barstow & S. Spain) have been constructed based on tracked mirror arrays. They both use(d?) nitrate(s) at ~900K - either KNO3 or an admix with the sodium salt. Salt melts have also been proposed as heat transfer media in closed cycle nuclear plant, as designed at ANL. The technologies are so old now that they are described in hard-back text books.
The big problem with lower temperature phase-change mixtures is maintaining the uniformity and composition as anyone who has used one as a hand-warmer knows - after a few freeze-thaw cycles they fail due to irreversible segregation, decomposition (organic/aqueous mixes) and a plethora of other undesirable processes. Furthermore, high temperature heat storage advantage falls out of Second Law considerations and all that jazz; hardly a welcome prospect for a domestic roof installation!

Caneri
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue 04 Sep 2007, 13:23
Location: Canada

#44 Post by Caneri »

Ok Ladies and Gentlemen....and all the ships at sea,

I'm on the grid as of 4.40pm June 19 2012....Hooray!!

I'm encouraged to be green....or copper colured...hey

My first impression is, I'm producing much more than I use even with AC working...we will see as the year unfolds.

Eric

PS.. @Sage,
No wonder you are called Sage....very interesting post...ty

@RetroTechGuy ....yup thought about that. I need a storage solution that is effective first.....and the hunt continues....ty All.
[color=darkred][i]Be not afraid to grow slowly, only be afraid of standing still.[/i]
Chinese Proverb[/color]

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RetroTechGuy
Posts: 2947
Joined: Tue 15 Dec 2009, 17:20
Location: USA

#45 Post by RetroTechGuy »

Caneri wrote:@RetroTechGuy ....yup thought about that. I need a storage solution that is effective first.....and the hunt continues....ty All.
One or more old water heaters (broken, and probably free) -- perhaps will extra insulation around the tank?

Or a solar pond?... (may not work up north).
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NathanO
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri 23 Feb 2007, 00:03
Location: San Antonio, TX

#46 Post by NathanO »

It has been a while on this one.

Got some prices for a commercial install of solar panels out our way that will meet the electric coop's standards.

Roof mounted: $3.50 per watt
Ground mounted: $2.50 per watt

Nathan

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