Puppi Raspberry Pi Hardware

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Lobster
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#381 Post by Lobster »

Barry has released a pre alpha.
I have written to Eben Upton. Hopefully we can get some testing and bugs fixed :)
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02865

Tried a few things . . .
Straight to desktop with Ethernet connected . . .
Ayttm got me to the Puppy Chat forum
Mtpaint took a screenshot OK
Gnumeric and Abiword take about 6 seconds to load. :D
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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#382 Post by puppy_apprentice »

new fruit on the plate: Gooseberry
http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-feature ... roid-board

more ARM fruits more fun ;)

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antiloquax
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#383 Post by antiloquax »

Lobster wrote:Barry has released a pre alpha.
I have written to Eben Upton. Hopefully we can get some testing and bugs fixed :)
http://bkhome.org/blog/?viewDetailed=02865
Great!
Downloading ...
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

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#384 Post by Lobster »

Fellow Puppys, Rapberrians, tinker, those contemplating a purchase,

Liz Upton has posted on the Raspberry forum about Sap6 (Barry's Puppi pre alpha). A new Debian based on Wheezy has been released, mixed response so far . . .
I have updated the wikki and posted on the blog etc
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppiNews
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 68#p104068
http://www.tumblr.com/blog/raspberrypy

OK gonna try getting on the forum with the links browser provided - if anyone gets Chrome or Seamonkey running in sap6 let us know how :)
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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sickgut
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Re: got a raspberry pi, can't wait for puppy

#385 Post by sickgut »

tinker wrote:Well, the long awaited rpi is here, and I've spent half of father's day trying different distros. (This would normally be a good thing - when asked what I wanted for father's day, I could honestly say, just some peace and quiet and the opportunity to putter with computer hardware and software, and I got it!) But it's turned out to be frustrating. I've tried 3 things, and I don't have any of them in a really good state (although this message is being typed in Debian, so at least that's usable).

This is certainly a device that cries out for puppy linux. I'm a professional computer person who ought to be able to do the google-fiddle-fiddle-fix myself and eventually get there, but I guess I'm spoiled by the puppy world. I've used various puppies on my regular machines, Jemimah's puppeee and fluppy on various netbooks, and they JUST WORK. That's such a relief! I've done linux for a long time, I know that this is more like a beta device and not a consumer appliance, and I know it's early days, still, this is such a pain...

arch: got it to boot to a command line. Is there really no graphical desktop installed? I saw someone's instructions on installing Enlightenment - pages of installation and configuration - and decided to shelve that one.

raspbmc: found excellent (Windows) instructions on how to download and install the installer to an sd card, that all worked fine, and I ended up at the xbmc main screen. Not sure how it works, since I've never tried xbmc on any machine before - but I would be interested in using the pi sometimes as a way to get video or tv off the internet, so this looks promising. However, after a while it locks up with some usb-related errors that I haven't yet looked up on the internet.

debian: I needed to make half a dozen tweaks, but at least they were well documented, I can't get hdmi to work at all after many attempts at modifying /boot/config.txt, so I'm stuck with a max resolution of 678x460 (circa 1985), Also I can't get hexxeh's rpi-update to work, although I have tried all of the workarounds.
I think many many people will be dissapointed with the rasp pi in general simply because the desktop performance is jaw droppingly sluggish and because the software component of the package isnt fully working properly yet. No fully working software suite means no fully working rasp pi... and to tell the truth, the rasp pi will still dissapoint many many users even when the software is sorted out.

I have stressed the performance issue many times and i dont think people actually believe me until they try it for themselves.... However, i can understand this atleast partly because in the terms of general PC performance realms, a computer that can run Quake 3 at maximum resolution, would have no problem at all running a small linux distro and running internet applications, using a photo editing suite or an internet browser etc.

This ARM based system isnt capable of running firefox at a usable speed, and that will not change, even if puppy is ported to the rasp.

Try the following at the console before you start your x session:

apt-get update
apt-get install iceweasel

xinit iceweasel

This will install the debian version of firefox (called iceweasel for some strange oddity) and the xinit iceweasel line will run iceweasel with the absolute base desktop environment, no window manager and no desktop manager, just Xorg, and note that the version of the browser is very old, and newer versions of the browser are significantly more bloated and slower as far as ram and cpu usage goes. Anyone who has stuck with linux versions of firefox from say the 3 series up until the 11 or whatever it is now, will understand what i mean.

Once your using firefox in this manner, note that this is about as fast as it will ever run. Puppy is not so much faster that it is faster than debian with no trimmings at all. Puppy people can try this method to run programs, but most puppies simply wont work like this without alot of messing about. If this is too slow for you running firefox in this manner then you have an idea about the rasps ability to run full sized apps at a usable speed, or atleast popular modern desktop applications at a usable speed...

Porting puppy to the rasp wont magically make all the desktop applications people are used to run at the speed of a normal PC, it will require alot of learning and effort on the part of anyone using to discover ways to use the rasp in a fulfilling way, its certainly not something that will give the user instant gratification, its an educational device, and education means learning and learning requires patience that is unless you run quake on it, then its as pretty sweet, however sadly... even quake 3 doesnt seem to hold the attention of many people anymore.

i dont want to give people the wrong impression tho, just warn people as to the rasps performance so they dont get dissapointed.

aarf

#386 Post by aarf »

can a swap partition or swap file be used with puppi?

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#387 Post by BarryK »

aarf wrote:can a swap partition or swap file be used with puppi?
Yes, my sap6 sd image has a 256MB swap partition. Thgough, I hate having to use a Flash memory as swap!
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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antiloquax
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Re: got a raspberry pi, can't wait for puppy

#388 Post by antiloquax »

sickgut wrote: I think many many people will be dissapointed with the rasp pi in general simply because the desktop performance is jaw droppingly sluggish and because the software component of the package isnt fully working properly yet.
[ ... ]
it's an educational device, and education means learning and learning requires patience [...]
I suppose it depends on what they are expecting. The foundation have always been open about the fact that the RPi will run desktop applications about as well as a ten-year-old computer.

The device perfectly fulfills its brief, as far as I am concerned. It's a £25 Linux computer and it's easy to learn to program using it.

Having said that, you certainly have a point. I hope that young people will buy this device in significant numbers and use it for the purpose for which it was intended. I am worried, though, that some young people will be put off by the lack of power and speed. While I can relate to Eben Upton talking about the days when your computer invited you to learn programming, it is the case that we did not have access to the range of devices that today's young people are used to.

It would be a shame if this machine is more popular with hackers like ourselves than its intended target market!
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

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#389 Post by Lobster »

It would be a shame if this machine is more popular with hackers like ourselves than its intended target market!
Image

Geeks have children
and cats
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1444
they will learn, they will program. They will blow raspberries at us . . . :roll: Those 4 and 6 year olds are programming in Python . . .
Ay Chihuahua!

You think you can program on an Android phone or an Ipaid? :?
Non!

The intended market is kids that tinker and play in a different way . . .

The speed on Arch was superior to Debian. So we can optimise . . .

I am putting Puppi Sap6 on a second (unreliable) SD card - hope it works - Barry recommends typing 'sync' after burning
That may help . . . 8)

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Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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antiloquax
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#390 Post by antiloquax »

Lobster wrote: Geeks have children
and cats
Yes - it was great to see those pictures on the RPi site.

By the way, I'm attaching a couple of fun GUI python programs I have been working on for you to test / critique
Attachments
python.tar.gz
(1.96 KiB) Downloaded 545 times
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

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Re: got a raspberry pi, can't wait for puppy

#391 Post by sickgut »

antiloquax wrote:
sickgut wrote: I think many many people will be dissapointed with the rasp pi in general simply because the desktop performance is jaw droppingly sluggish and because the software component of the package isnt fully working properly yet.
[ ... ]
it's an educational device, and education means learning and learning requires patience [...]
I suppose it depends on what they are expecting. The foundation have always been open about the fact that the RPi will run desktop applications about as well as a ten-year-old computer.

The device perfectly fulfills its brief, as far as I am concerned. It's a £25 Linux computer and it's easy to learn to program using it.

Having said that, you certainly have a point. I hope that young people will buy this device in significant numbers and use it for the purpose for which it was intended. I am worried, though, that some young people will be put off by the lack of power and speed. While I can relate to Eben Upton talking about the days when your computer invited you to learn programming, it is the case that we did not have access to the range of devices that today's young people are used to.

It would be a shame if this machine is more popular with hackers like ourselves than its intended target market!
its only the typical desktop/ internet/ web browsing/ youtube and such type stuff (how the average 14 yo girl uses firefox) and more demanding apps that dont use the accelerated GPU (gimp etc....) that performance is an issue...
and also compiling even relatively small programs seems to take forever as its CPU intensive (the CPU is the only weak link performance wise)

games are just fine (uses accelerated GPU)
playing videos clips in mp4 or whatever format is good (uses GPU)
programming type stuff is good (performance is never an issue anyway)
server type stuff is good (ie. webserver, fileserver/ ftp server/ proxy server etc... performance is never really an issue anyway)

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#392 Post by don570 »

Convert raspberry pi into laptop
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/turn-a-ra ... pdock.html

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#393 Post by Lobster »

Thanks Don :)

I am hoping for a PARM powered tablet in 2013/2014
Image

Microsoft (anybody remember them?) are getting the hardware ball rolling with the surface tablet
Image
http://liliputing.com/2012/06/microsoft ... chips.html

and now back to the raspberries . . .
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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Re: got a raspberry pi, can't wait for puppy

#394 Post by greengeek »

sickgut wrote:server type stuff is good (ie. webserver, fileserver/ ftp server/ proxy server etc... performance is never really an issue anyway)
I'm hoping to use a Pi as a network server (connected to a usb disk drive) to act as a NAS type thing, and also as a PXE boot server. Do you think that is a reasonable expectation sickgut?

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#395 Post by Lobster »

Youtube video of Puppi Sap6
http://youtu.be/t-pJ3eoz9Kw

I ran Gnumeric, connect to the chat room, change icons, connect to the forum, scribble and resize in mtpaint etc. Will give you some idea . . .
Puppy Raspup 8.2Final 8)
Puppy Links Page http://www.smokey01.com/bruceb/puppy.html :D

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Re: got a raspberry pi, can't wait for puppy

#396 Post by sickgut »

greengeek wrote:
sickgut wrote:server type stuff is good (ie. webserver, fileserver/ ftp server/ proxy server etc... performance is never really an issue anyway)
I'm hoping to use a Pi as a network server (connected to a usb disk drive) to act as a NAS type thing, and also as a PXE boot server. Do you think that is a reasonable expectation sickgut?
yes, it should be able to do that kind of thing easily. Im intending on releasing an all in one server type solution as the first step in the "Debian to be kinda like Puppy" ... Pussy... like OS that i have promised to make for the Rasp

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#397 Post by sickgut »

Lobster wrote:Youtube video of Puppi Sap6
http://youtu.be/t-pJ3eoz9Kw

I ran Gnumeric, connect to the chat room, change icons, connect to the forum, scribble and resize in mtpaint etc. Will give you some idea . . .

looks like sap6 is all the advanced user actually needs to start customizing and adding things.

im eagerly heading over to that url you posted to gauge the performance levels...

just watched the vid...

how long does it take to load to the puppy desktop?

everything chugs along better than i thought it would

first one to compile open arena and assaultcube for the rasp gets a lolly :)

is there open gl in sap6?

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#398 Post by Lobster »

how long does it take to load to the puppy desktop?
On the first boot up quite slow. Have not timed subsequently but seems fast. In fact I was hoping to film it but I turned on the TV and it was already in Puppi Sap . . . 8)
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#399 Post by antiloquax »

Hi Lobster,
I can't seem to get the bootmanager to recognise the devx.
Also, I turned off utf-8 and it stopped lots of things working. I had to start again with a fresh copy of the SD card :(
My System:Arch-Arm on RPi!
"[url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76049l]RacyPy[/url]" puplet on Toshiba Tecra 8200. PIII, 256 MB RAM.
[url=http://raspberrypy.tumblr.com/]RaspberryPy[/url]: Lobster and I blog about the RPi.

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#400 Post by BarryK »

antiloquax wrote:Hi Lobster,
I can't seem to get the bootmanager to recognise the devx.
Please read the instructions:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/arm/te ... readme.htm
[url]https://bkhome.org/news/[/url]

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