Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 23 Apr 2014, 13:16
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
I wish for a 32-bit multi-user version for next Puppy!
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Author Message
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 10:46    Post subject:  I wish for a 32-bit multi-user version for next Puppy!  

Fatdog64 is a multiuser OS that is or will be 100% compatible with Puppy.
But the devs of Fatdog64 wants to only deal with 64-bit for their FatDog
so I ask for a 32-bit version Puppy here.

I don't ask for that that Puppy to be FatDog32 but a multiuser OS
like how FatDog show can be done. So a multiuser OS like FatDog
but without being FatDog.
To learn from their method to make a multiuser OS Puppy.

Wish I could explain in a less confusing way.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=635874#635874

I quote one of the developers of FatDog.

"the initscripts are already arch-independent."

I fail to get such text but AFAIK they took T2 and changed the initscript
to allow for Puppy compatibility and then they compiled all the applications
to be 64-bit. So if I where a developer I would most likely do the same but
use 32 bit applications instead. But that is my too naive take on it.

Somehow one should be able to use their scripts but make 32 bit instead?



Quote:
nooby wrote:

I am interested in a 32-bit version of FatDog because it is a multi-user
Puppy so a lot of people would be able to use Puppy on 32 bit machines.

(Edit Now I know them don't share that wish. Them are into 64-bit
and not into 32-bit at all. At least not a FatDog that is 32-bit.

So my wish is that next Puppy would be a multi-user Puppy
because now the average Joe Linux user refuse to use a singleuser
Puppy.

Yes I know that very few developers do care about that criticism.
But now when we do have a modern Puppy like FatDog which are
multi-user then it is unfortunate that it is 64-bit instead of a 32-bit.

Many many users of Linux still have older 32-bit computers.
So it would be great to have a modern 32-bit multi-user Puppy to recommend

Now I am a noob so I know too little. I have a lot of time but lack knowledge
So if the Devs have no time to make the compilation needed for 32-bit
would it be easy enough for a noob to do. I mean if the scripts as such
do it automatically and the only trouble is that it takes many ours a day
and many many days to accomplish but need no special knowledge to do?

As is obvious I know nothing so maybe I am way into fantasy land. Smile

Could one expect a kind of woof script in future that allow us noobs
to accomplish the 32-bit if the developers have no time to let it have
its automatic course or is it a hard and tough job to make it 32-bit from
64-bit?

I apology if all this sounds very ridiculous. All of it is from my heart
caring about all these Linux users keen on the notion of single user root.

I am all for single user root but I do care about all these others
and want them to be able to have a good multi user Puppy Linux.



Quote:
jamesbond wrote

Nooby, I think it is better to start a new thread for 32-bit puppies and
ask any current developer of 32-bit puppies whether they would like
to include the multi-user functionality. For a start, we have 01micko
lurking here ... :Cool:


edit

The title needs to be edit. But I fail to make it short enough to fit the space.
I am not good enough using English grammar or even good enough at thinking. So I change it and hope for that somebody can help me later.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

Last edited by nooby on Sun 24 Jun 2012, 02:32; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3645
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:04    Post subject: 32bit Multi-User support features  

@Nooby, we are discussing 32bit Multi-User support; not FATDOG. FATDOG is ONLY 64bit.

There were 3 questions I proposed for some clarity: Would you answer them either here or somewhere you feel its appropriate?

Thansk in advance

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:09    Post subject:  

Edit I am a slow writer so you already posted while I where writing.

gcmartin ask me questions over here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=635894#635894

Quote:
Nooby, I think FATSlacko has plans for extensions in this area.

Although this is not the thread to address this, let me ask you to post
on the FATSlacko thread your answer:

ARe you looking to have other users logon to the system's console?
Are you looking to have other users remotely get a desktop on the local PC?
Are you only looking to share "specific folders/files" with certain LAN PC users?

Please post there as FATSlacko may have an answer to several
of these already. Further, in my testing thus far, its stable.


I am not good at logic so my answer will be confusing to those who are into logic.

I have not thought of these things at all. What I have thought about is this.

FatDog64 is not 32 bit. Most puppies are 32-bit.
FatDog64 is a modern multi-user Puppy Linux.
That makes it very unique. Pizzasgood had one for Puppy 421
that one even fail to get internet through LAN on my computers
421 is not a distro with a modern kernel. Grafpup is even older.

So FatDog64 is very unique and alone in being a multi user Puppy.

So for me that is what motivated me to ask them for to get a 32 bit version
of it.

But it may be that none of the developers of FatDog64 are motivated
enough to do all the manual work that is needed to compile all that code
for 32-bit due to them interested in 64-bit code them having those machines.

But I trust that many poor people all over the world still have 32 bit
machines and they are now only served by Ubuntu and other standard
linux distros.

Now that Puppy is able to be multi-user then it would be a good thing
to be able to recommend a 32-bit multiuser Puppy linux distro that
gives people the choice to be single user root in frugal install or
to be a restricted user under a multiuser set up not being root like they
ask for so they fee at home having a Linux that behave like the others do.

Now being a noob I am not aware of what is needed to change
FatDog64 into FatDog32 multi user

or changing a FATSlacko into a multi-user distro or a Lupu 528 into
a multi user dstro or whatever is easier.

Naive as I am I thought it is easier to change FatDog64 into FatDog32
maybe I am totally wrong maybe it is easier to make a Slacko or a Lupu
into a multi user and retaining a 32 bit set up.


I barely get what you asked me there in the quote above. I never do such
things.

I only know that Puppy get a lot of bashing and criticism for being single
user root. So now when there is a multi user version that would be good
to have in 32 bit version.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 12:16    Post subject:  

Quote:
I think FATSlacko has plans for extensions in this area.


Is that a wild guess or something you know?
Can you quote what you base that notion on?

Is it easier to make a slacko that is multi user
or a Lupu that is multi user than to make a 64 bit
muliti user into 32 bit multi user?

I do know too little. But consider this. FatDog is a T2 distro.
It is not a Woof based distro. Okay Woof is T2 too but single user.

So for to make a multi user version of Slacko or Lupu or any other
woof based Puppy you would start all over with T2 as FatDog did.

that is why I naively thought that it should be easier to make a 32 bit
version of a 64 bit multi user than to start anew with a woof based distro


But I am no developer. Are you? *Friendly Smile*
Do you know which is easier to do?

Then we have to motivation. Something motivated the FatDog guys
to make a multi user version. None of the other devs have that motivation
do they? Unless you give evidence for it Smile or them themselves indicate
they do.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3645
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 13:17    Post subject:  

OK, as I understand your specific concern, you would like a single user desktop system where the login user is has a diminished administator ability on the desktop. And should he need/want admin ability, he has the Linus provided provision for using admin services via "su/sudo".

That is a summary of what you're asking.

You did not take the time to answer any of the 3 questions I posted for you. I don't think they were too difficult. But, they do serve to give some idea of your needs as you see them. BTW, thanks for your comments in this thread.

When some of us think of multi-user, we are looking to have the system serve as a desktop for any number of users who would need to walk and use the system. In that vain, we are looking for the system's administrator to provide the authority levels for what the login users can do. Similar to what you have asked in desktop use.

Now, that we understand, stay tuned as you may be seeing other implementation in Puppy in this area in addition to what is being provided by FATDOG.

And, yes, FATDOG is a rather different kind of Puppy distro. Very fast.

There is a very good write up summarizing many discussions that have surfaced over the years about the Puppy implementation of multi-user and the use of root user. But, understand that although this is a good one, it is but 1 helpful view.

It is here.

Further, just about every distro's forum is filled with all sorts of user discussions on this matter. But, it comes down to each distro provider to provide the desktop implementation they feel is suited to their community that they want to server. Then, it becomes a user selection to match those things they feel appropriate.

Hope this helps

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 16:35    Post subject:  

Thanks for the link to this
"I'm logged in as root?"
http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/fatdog/web/faqs/login.html

Yes they give a good explanation there.
I usually never read FAQs due to my brain get overloaded
and just get confused but that text where good.

Re your three questions. I failed to see how they related to my wish!
They may relate to your wishes or other potential users but just now
I find them to be totally unrelated to my motivation to have a 32-bit
version of a multi user Puppy. Sure I can be wrong but please don't
make a fight out of your misunderstanding of my motivation to start the thread.

Maybe these questions are easy to answer on your level of getting
things but they where way beyond my grasp of Linux. Had no idea
how to relate to them. I felt bewildered even trying to read the text.

Trust me I am not on that level. Total gobbly gook something.

I don't mind if the ordinary average Linux user have those interests
but AFAIK it is a heavy derail of my thread to go into such details
when nobody else than you have shown that interest.

The thread is about what the title says and not about your specific way
of relating to it. Could you maybe start a new thread about your needs?

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 3645
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 16:45    Post subject:  

@Nooby
The questions are trying to get to understanding how multi-user is to be used.

You are asking for something while not telling us how you would use such a thing should it be provided.

That's the reason for asking: How would you use it? What is it you see it doing to make your/our life better?

Its not about my need (or your I hope, either) but rather the use of this within the community.

But, if you choose not to answer, that perfectly acceptable too.

Here to help

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 16:53    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
@Nooby...

But, if you choose not to answer, that perfectly acceptable too.

Here to help


Sure it can be something in my brain/personality that trigger you to do this.
But from my 2012 - 2008 = 4 years of experience of being active here
almost daily I totally fail to see how your questions are related to my wish.

I have explained my motivation using words to the best of my ability
to write English. I know my grammar is bad and thinking not good.

If my text is as confusing as your posts indicate then I should not be
active at all and that would most likely make many happy Smile

But trust me I fail to see how your questions relate to my thread.
I have no such problems and I don't refuse to answer at all.

I find your questions to be a huge derail of my thread and wish
you never had done that. It is certainly not helping me at all.

Time here now here locally are 22.53 or so and my eyes are
screaming them too tired to go on reading. So I give up for today.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Fri 22 Jun 2012, 23:49    Post subject:  

My view:

It is highly unlikely that Fatdog will ever become 32-bit again; definitely not on x86 platform. It is also unlikely that we can provide something like Woof or Saluki Custom Builder. However, what we provide is the entire Fatdog repository, and the (simple) scripts to build Fatdog ISO from this repository. This model is similar to Puppy Unleashed.

That being the case, I'd like to note that two things:
  • multiuser capability has nothing to do with 64-bit. It can be adapted for 32-bit puppies too.
  • Fatdog is Free Software. I invite everyone who is interested to look at Fatdog repository; and take/adapt the code for their own distro. Especially, for making nooby's wishes come true: 32-bit puppy with multiuser capability.


cheers!

_________________
Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun 2012, 02:52    Post subject:  

Thanks to jamesbond!

jamesbond wrote:
My view:

...what we provide is the entire Fatdog repository,
and the (simple) scripts to build Fatdog ISO from this repository.
This model is similar to Puppy Unleashed.

That being the case, I'd like to note that two things:
  • multiuser capability has nothing to do with 64-bit. It can be adapted for 32-bit puppies too.
  • Fatdog is Free Software. I invite everyone who is interested
    to look at Fatdog repository; and take/adapt the code for their own distro.

    Especially, for making nooby's wishes come true:
    32-bit puppy with multiuser capability.


Jay that is what I want. So I need to find a 32-bit developer that
understand what your wrote here above Smile

Link to Fatdog64-600b1

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=79001
Quote:
James completely rewrote the initrd and the init scripts,
and many of the setup scripts. The alpha2 release announcement is here:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=78407

cheers!


so that developer then need to look at the the initrd and the init scripts,
and many of the setup scripts. and tell them to be 32 bit instead of 64 bit?

But then they can not use 64 bit repo. 64 bit can use 32 bit
but 32 bit can not ise 64 bit repo?

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sat 23 Jun 2012, 22:31    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
so that developer then need to look at the the initrd and the init scripts,
and many of the setup scripts. and tell them to be 32 bit instead of 64 bit?

No, the initscripts are already arch-independent. It is the applications that are all 64-bit.

Quote:
But then they can not use 64 bit repo. 64 bit can use 32 bit
but 32 bit can not ise 64 bit repo?
No, all the apps in the repo is 64-bit. 32-bit puppies must use 32-bit apps from whatever 32-bit repo they have (t2, debian, ubuntu, slackware, etc).
_________________
Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 01:35    Post subject:  

Thanks james bond.

Being the noob that I am, I fail to get this part.
"the initscripts are already arch-independent."

I feel un- or non-polite to ask further.
A developer of Puppy should ask further or to do as you say.
To take a look at what you guys have already done.

So seen from my very naive point of view then then
the devs only have replace all the 64 bit applications
with 32 bit such from Debian or Slackware or whatever repo
they fancy?

Arch-independent? Independent of Arch as in Arch Linux
or does "arch" refer to some general term that also
Arch Linux took it's name from?

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:24    Post subject:  

No worries.

nooby wrote:
So seen from my very naive point of view then then
the devs only have replace all the 64 bit applications
with 32 bit such from Debian or Slackware or whatever repo
they fancy?
100% correct.

Quote:
Arch-independent? Independent of Arch as in Arch Linux
or does "arch" refer to some general term that also
Arch Linux took it's name from?
No, "arch" as in "architecture" as in "processor platform". "Arch-independent" means "does not depend on the type of the processors (intel 32-bit/64-bit, ARM/MIPS/etc".
_________________
Fatdog64, Slacko and Puppeee user. Puppy user since 2.13
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 24 Jun 2012, 06:35    Post subject:  

You are good at explaining. I think that I get it Smile
And that is also why Arch Linux named their distro that way.
Their scripts makes it non-dependent of CPU architecture?

Cool! Now I wish some friendly Demon would make me into a Developer.
Or that a true dev would get interested into doing this exciting and
rewarding work. Smile

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10522
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 09 Jul 2012, 06:12    Post subject:  

I wish for a 32-bit multi-user version for next Puppy!

Linux users are a conservative kind of people.
They don't want such things as single user distro.
They want to feel at home and not learn new things.

Some 99% of all Linux are multi user distros.
So it is an almost given. I trust very few of the average
linux user even know how to handle a single user distro?

Now I am a true noob and I love single user being root.
So I would only use multi user if Barry or Mick or Pemasu
or JamesBond or any of the other trusted devs would urge me to.

Edit to clarify any misunderstanding. I don't mind of "Puppy" as such
is single user for eternity I only want to be able to give a link
to a multi suer version of that Puppy if the linux user want to.

Me personally will go on using the single user version
because that is the only version that I am able to use.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [15 Posts]  
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects » Next Puppy Development
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0960s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0042s) ][ GZIP on ]