Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Sat 25 Oct 2014, 15:54
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Other Distros
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
Page 40 of 112 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, ..., 110, 111, 112 Next
Author Message
amigo

Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2261

PostPosted: Sun 29 Jul 2012, 15:15    Post_subject:  

What is it about frugal install that makes so few Developers interested in allowing it for their OS?

It'S because when you do a 'frugal install' on NTFS, then that means that all your installation and files are dependent on the integrity of a non-linux, non-open-source, and (nearly) non-repairable file sytsem. That means that any time you have a problem and ask questions about it, they always have to deal with the possibility that you have corrupted your non-linux filesystem. You say, for example, 'I can't login or access my files -I get 'Permission Denied'. They have no way of telling if it is because you have a problem within your/their Linux system, or maybe your NTFS has become corrupted and can no longer be mounted read-write -hence denying you access. The last thing they want is to be dealing with possible Linux problems.

I'll again advise you that you shouldn't expose yourself to windows problems either. I know you want to keep a windows install so you can update your phones, etc. Why don't you simply keep a computer with windoes on it that you never use for anythign else. Then have your nice Linux box -or even a dual install with windows also. By allowing yourself the luxury of instaling linux, then you have complete freedom to use (nearly) any linux distro you want -in a way which is more intuitive and common than running from CD or from a 'frugal install'. You might even find a distro which caters more to your special needs than most do -there are several distros out there for older folks or people with special problems.

Your understanding and ability to use what you are running would increase greatly if you stopped jumping around all the time. For every-day use, I still rely on a system which I installed, setup and customized more than five years ago. I still like it because I know my way around it, know what it can and can't do, and it *always* works.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 29 Jul 2012, 16:07    Post_subject:  

I agree that you give good advice.

Typical of me I have no idea which
computer I should ahve as the Win
and which as only Linux on.

Maybe the big desktop is best suited for Windows only.
I had spotify on that one and could do a copy of those
spotify that I longed for to have a copy of.

Better quality then the analog copy I do using linux?

Unless linux also make a digital copy?

But I am just one out of some 90% that has Windows
and many of these people don't have two computers.

I have 5 computer even 6 if I count the one without HD.
I use that one to run grub2 over Flash for those OS that
need grub2. Okay my Asus EeePC is only linux on.
Butthat one have very small and very old SSD on them.
Very slow such too. So I have than in a drawer as a reserve
if my two Acer netbooks get broken.

I am a spoiled kid. The "jump around" is for to survive.
To make life interesting. A kind of weird hobby.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5867
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun 29 Jul 2012, 18:27    Post_subject:  

Trying out the latest AntiX release candidate....... pretty impressive.
screenshot.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   6.81 KB
 Viewed   844 Time(s)

screenshot.jpg

Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5867
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 02:28    Post_subject:  

Full desktop screenie......
screenshot.jpg
 Description   
 Filesize   40.52 KB
 Viewed   809 Time(s)

screenshot.jpg

Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 09:00    Post_subject:  

amigo wrote:
What is it about frugal install that makes so few Developers interested in allowing it for their OS?

It'S because when you do a 'frugal install' on NTFS, then that means that all your installation and files are dependent on the integrity of a non-linux, non-open-source, and (nearly) non-repairable file sytsem. That means that any time you have a problem and ask questions about it, they always have to deal with the possibility that you have corrupted your non-linux filesystem. You say, for example, 'I can't login or access my files -I get 'Permission Denied'. They have no way of telling if it is because you have a problem within your/their Linux system, or maybe your NTFS has become corrupted and can no longer be mounted read-write -hence denying you access. The last thing they want is to be dealing with possible Linux problems.

I'll again advise you that you shouldn't expose yourself to windows problems either. I know you want to keep a windows install so you can update your phones, etc. Why don't you simply keep a computer with windoes on it that you never use for anythign else. Then have your nice Linux box -or even a dual install with windows also. By allowing yourself the luxury of instaling linux, then you have complete freedom to use (nearly) any linux distro you want -in a way which is more intuitive and common than running from CD or from a 'frugal install'. You might even find a distro which caters more to your special needs than most do -there are several distros out there for older folks or people with special problems.

Your understanding and ability to use what you are running would increase greatly if you stopped jumping around all the time. For every-day use, I still rely on a system which I installed, setup and customized more than five years ago. I still like it because I know my way around it, know what it can and can't do, and it *always* works.


Agreed, and the answer is to have a space on your hard drive which isn't NTFS and is used purely for storage - the best option IMO is to format a partition in fat32 for this. That way it can be accessed either by a Linux distro or by Windows, and Puppy's .sfs and .3fs etc. files can be put there.

I can't honestly see why Microsoft sticks with NTFS anyway, but that's a different discussion.

_________________
Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running PuppEX 14.1, New Year's Pup 02, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy X-Precise 2.4, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 842
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 10:05    Post_subject:  

NTFS is a lot more reliable than FAT32. FAT32 was introduced in the horribly unstable Win9x. The XP/Vista/7 versions of FAT32 are just ported/emulated versions. I prefer NTFS all the way.
_________________
Desktop: Intel 945PSN Motherboard, 3.2Ghz P-IV "Prescott 2M", 2GB RAM, 500GB WD HDD, Windows 7
(Slacko) Puppy Arcade 11 on USB Stick
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 12:56    Post_subject:  

bark_bark_bark wrote:
... I prefer NTFS all the way.


Have you found a way to do defrag or repair of it without
logging into a windows OS?

Oh most likely there are a payed prog for such
but I would prefer a "free" one in linux.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 842
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 13:05    Post_subject:  

No, but why would you use a windows NT-based filesystem for linux. I HIGHLY doubt there is a tool, but you can use windows for that (like defragler, a tool by the creators of CCleaner).
_________________
Desktop: Intel 945PSN Motherboard, 3.2Ghz P-IV "Prescott 2M", 2GB RAM, 500GB WD HDD, Windows 7
(Slacko) Puppy Arcade 11 on USB Stick
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 13:37    Post_subject:  

bark_bark_bark wrote:
NTFS is a lot more reliable than FAT32. FAT32 was introduced in the horribly unstable Win9x. The XP/Vista/7 versions of FAT32 are just ported/emulated versions. I prefer NTFS all the way.


Fair enough, buit both NTFS and FAT 16/32 need defragging whereas ext3 and 4 don't. There used to be a Windows XP utility which could read ext2 filesystems, but I don't know if there's one for Windows 7 or one which can read ext3 and ext4.

_________________
Stone Pentium IV (2.4 GHz), 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB hard drive running PuppEX 14.1, New Year's Pup 02, Puppy 4.31 Workhorse, Puppy X-Precise 2.4, Puppy Carolina 1.2, Puppy Legacy OS2 LTS, Puppy Diamond 528_512 (full) and Puppy Upup Raring 3.9.9.2.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 842
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 13:45    Post_subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
There used to be a Windows XP utility which could read ext2 filesystems


There is one in the Hiren's boot CD. But you need windows to use that tool.

_________________
Desktop: Intel 945PSN Motherboard, 3.2Ghz P-IV "Prescott 2M", 2GB RAM, 500GB WD HDD, Windows 7
(Slacko) Puppy Arcade 11 on USB Stick
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 14:36    Post_subject:  

Colonel Panic wrote:
.. and the answer is to have a space on your hard drive which isn't NTFS and is used purely for storage - the best option IMO is to format a partition in fat32 for this. That way it can be accessed either by a Linux distro or by Windows, and Puppy's .sfs and .3fs etc. files can be put there.

And FAT32 can also be accessed by Mac systems too, so it is still quite a good option for storing data that needs to be accessed across operating systems.
Just be aware that there are a variety of size limitations that affect how useful FAT32 is. Due to the way the free space is allocated a FAT32 partition will become slower at accessing files the bigger the partition is. Apparently 32Gb is considered the biggest practical limit. (WinXP will not allow you to make a FAT32 partition bigger than this - although it is able to use a bigger one if you have created it on a different system). FAT32 partitions bigger than 32Gb will be slower, more fragmented, and also wasteful of space due to cluster sizes etc.
.
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
linuxbear

Joined: 18 Apr 2009
Posts: 621
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 14:51    Post_subject:  

I would back puppy up before a defrag. I made the mistake of running defrag with my Puppy-on-a-stick plugged into the USB port. The result was that Puppy would no longer boot from the USB pendrive
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4368
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 15:54    Post_subject:  

Quote:
... NTFS and FAT 16/32 need defragging whereas ext3 and 4 don't ...
I'm not quite sure this is an accurate statement.

Also, someone alluded that FAT (16/32) are bad filesystems. I'm not sure that is an accuate portrayal either.

But, of the filesystems that are mentioned, each has advantages and disadvantages.

Humbly, I must admit, that I have had little problems with the filesystems themselves as long as you use them as intended. Most problems that occur with any filesystem is application or user command level corruption or destruction.

Hope this is appreciatively useful.

Here to help

_________________
Get ACTIVE Create Circles; Do those good things which benefit people's needs!
We are all related ... Its time to show that we know this!
3 Different Puppy Search Engine or use DogPile
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
puppyluvr


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
Location: Chickasha Oklahoma

PostPosted: Mon 30 Jul 2012, 20:14    Post_subject:  

Very Happy Hello,
NTFS is just M$`s attempt to obfuscate and maintain proprietary control...
Fat 32 is an acceptable FS.. But a journaled FS like ext3 is far superiour..

Ext2IFS_1_11a.exe, attached below, works OK for me..

Tip: To "defrag" a Linux FS, copy the contents out, and back... Ta-da....
Ext2IFS.tar.gz
Description 
gz

 Download 
Filename  Ext2IFS.tar.gz 
Filesize  1.39 MB 
Downloaded  186 Time(s) 

_________________
Close the Windows, and open your eyes, to a whole new world
http://puppylinuxstuff.meownplanet.net/puppyluvr/
Puppy Linux Users Group on Facebook

Puppy since 2.15CE...
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message Visit_website 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 01 Aug 2012, 14:59    Post_subject:  

Thanks puppyluvr .

I do remember that I've read about that trick before.

Suppose my hardisk is 250 MB and I have already
used say 200GB would one really trust a program
to be able to do that trick on it?

But I would maybe be able to defrag one iso at a time
and isos are very sensitive to be fragmented.

They refuse to boot if they are too fragmented.

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send_private_message 
Display_posts:   Sort by:   
Page 40 of 112 Posts_count   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, ..., 110, 111, 112 Next
Post_new_topic   Reply_to_topic View_previous_topic :: View_next_topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Misc
Jump to:  

Rules_post_cannot
Rules_reply_cannot
Rules_edit_cannot
Rules_delete_cannot
Rules_vote_cannot
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1118s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0232s) ][ GZIP on ]