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Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#581 Post by nooby »

I have bragged about how good AntiX is
and how easy to do frugal install on NTFS
and then I downloaded the latest version
and I totally failed using it. Access denied.

I am not clever enough.

I also tried the xfce version of Linux Mint
only did a frugal live install that do work
with older versions but this one they had
changed something so it failed to boot.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

bark_bark_bark
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:17
Location: Wisconsin USA

#582 Post by bark_bark_bark »

I just tried/used (for only 5 hours so far) a copy of Ubuntu 12.04 (through Wubi). I'm not too crazy about Unity either, that is why I removed it and installed Openbox (my fav WM) instead. Screenshots of it soon (that's if I'm not too lazy to do it). My config of Ubuntu though is:

-Openbox (Window Manager)
-fbpanel (Panel)
-hsetroot (wallpaper setter)
-idesk (Desktop Icons)
-lxterminal (Terminal)
-xfe (File Manager)

I like dark themes, and that is what you'll see in my screenshot.
....

anticapitalista

#583 Post by anticapitalista »

nooby wrote:I have bragged about how good AntiX is
and how easy to do frugal install on NTFS
and then I downloaded the latest version
and I totally failed using it. Access denied.

I am not clever enough.

I also tried the xfce version of Linux Mint
only did a frugal live install that do work
with older versions but this one they had
changed something so it failed to boot.
I posted a reply as to why it 'failed' and how it is fixed. (You made the same mistake when you tested antiX before you were shown the correct way) :)

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#584 Post by nooby »

Thanks Anti, that is so typical of me. Good you took time
to comment on it here. I trust it will help others that are
like me but who are not active on forums.

I have to travel for some hours now today so I take a look
some 6 hours from now. :)
Last edited by nooby on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 07:36, edited 1 time in total.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#585 Post by nooby »

BSD OS There is this one recently on DW and many others.
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07358
GhostBSD Eric Turgeon has announced that the first beta release
of GhostBSD 3, a FreeBSD-based desktop-oriented operating system
with GNOME 2, is now ready for testing
Now my naive question. Has any of the many BSD guys
ever considered to allow frugal install of BSD and
what is their views on being root?

I do remember vaguely that when one used a Virtual install
I used VBox and a few times Qemo. Never VMware?

Anyway using VBox I did test some 75 different OS and
a few of them where BSD don't remember which but I took
all of them from Distrowatch.

What is it about frugal install that makes so few Developers interested
in allowing it for their OS?

Knoppix where know already in 2003 or earlier.
And he allowed frugal? Or is that my poor memory?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

amigo
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon 02 Apr 2007, 06:52

#586 Post by amigo »

What is it about frugal install that makes so few Developers interested in allowing it for their OS?

It'S because when you do a 'frugal install' on NTFS, then that means that all your installation and files are dependent on the integrity of a non-linux, non-open-source, and (nearly) non-repairable file sytsem. That means that any time you have a problem and ask questions about it, they always have to deal with the possibility that you have corrupted your non-linux filesystem. You say, for example, 'I can't login or access my files -I get 'Permission Denied'. They have no way of telling if it is because you have a problem within your/their Linux system, or maybe your NTFS has become corrupted and can no longer be mounted read-write -hence denying you access. The last thing they want is to be dealing with possible Linux problems.

I'll again advise you that you shouldn't expose yourself to windows problems either. I know you want to keep a windows install so you can update your phones, etc. Why don't you simply keep a computer with windoes on it that you never use for anythign else. Then have your nice Linux box -or even a dual install with windows also. By allowing yourself the luxury of instaling linux, then you have complete freedom to use (nearly) any linux distro you want -in a way which is more intuitive and common than running from CD or from a 'frugal install'. You might even find a distro which caters more to your special needs than most do -there are several distros out there for older folks or people with special problems.

Your understanding and ability to use what you are running would increase greatly if you stopped jumping around all the time. For every-day use, I still rely on a system which I installed, setup and customized more than five years ago. I still like it because I know my way around it, know what it can and can't do, and it *always* works.

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#587 Post by nooby »

I agree that you give good advice.

Typical of me I have no idea which
computer I should ahve as the Win
and which as only Linux on.

Maybe the big desktop is best suited for Windows only.
I had spotify on that one and could do a copy of those
spotify that I longed for to have a copy of.

Better quality then the analog copy I do using linux?

Unless linux also make a digital copy?

But I am just one out of some 90% that has Windows
and many of these people don't have two computers.

I have 5 computer even 6 if I count the one without HD.
I use that one to run grub2 over Flash for those OS that
need grub2. Okay my Asus EeePC is only linux on.
Butthat one have very small and very old SSD on them.
Very slow such too. So I have than in a drawer as a reserve
if my two Acer netbooks get broken.

I am a spoiled kid. The "jump around" is for to survive.
To make life interesting. A kind of weird hobby.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

User avatar
James C
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Location: Kentucky

#588 Post by James C »

Trying out the latest AntiX release candidate....... pretty impressive.
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James C
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#589 Post by James C »

Full desktop screenie......
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Colonel Panic
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#590 Post by Colonel Panic »

amigo wrote:What is it about frugal install that makes so few Developers interested in allowing it for their OS?

It'S because when you do a 'frugal install' on NTFS, then that means that all your installation and files are dependent on the integrity of a non-linux, non-open-source, and (nearly) non-repairable file sytsem. That means that any time you have a problem and ask questions about it, they always have to deal with the possibility that you have corrupted your non-linux filesystem. You say, for example, 'I can't login or access my files -I get 'Permission Denied'. They have no way of telling if it is because you have a problem within your/their Linux system, or maybe your NTFS has become corrupted and can no longer be mounted read-write -hence denying you access. The last thing they want is to be dealing with possible Linux problems.

I'll again advise you that you shouldn't expose yourself to windows problems either. I know you want to keep a windows install so you can update your phones, etc. Why don't you simply keep a computer with windoes on it that you never use for anythign else. Then have your nice Linux box -or even a dual install with windows also. By allowing yourself the luxury of instaling linux, then you have complete freedom to use (nearly) any linux distro you want -in a way which is more intuitive and common than running from CD or from a 'frugal install'. You might even find a distro which caters more to your special needs than most do -there are several distros out there for older folks or people with special problems.

Your understanding and ability to use what you are running would increase greatly if you stopped jumping around all the time. For every-day use, I still rely on a system which I installed, setup and customized more than five years ago. I still like it because I know my way around it, know what it can and can't do, and it *always* works.
Agreed, and the answer is to have a space on your hard drive which isn't NTFS and is used purely for storage - the best option IMO is to format a partition in fat32 for this. That way it can be accessed either by a Linux distro or by Windows, and Puppy's .sfs and .3fs etc. files can be put there.

I can't honestly see why Microsoft sticks with NTFS anyway, but that's a different discussion.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

bark_bark_bark
Posts: 1885
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Location: Wisconsin USA

#591 Post by bark_bark_bark »

NTFS is a lot more reliable than FAT32. FAT32 was introduced in the horribly unstable Win9x. The XP/Vista/7 versions of FAT32 are just ported/emulated versions. I prefer NTFS all the way.
....

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#592 Post by nooby »

bark_bark_bark wrote:... I prefer NTFS all the way.
Have you found a way to do defrag or repair of it without
logging into a windows OS?

Oh most likely there are a payed prog for such
but I would prefer a "free" one in linux.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

bark_bark_bark
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:17
Location: Wisconsin USA

#593 Post by bark_bark_bark »

No, but why would you use a windows NT-based filesystem for linux. I HIGHLY doubt there is a tool, but you can use windows for that (like defragler, a tool by the creators of CCleaner).
....

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Colonel Panic
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#594 Post by Colonel Panic »

bark_bark_bark wrote:NTFS is a lot more reliable than FAT32. FAT32 was introduced in the horribly unstable Win9x. The XP/Vista/7 versions of FAT32 are just ported/emulated versions. I prefer NTFS all the way.
Fair enough, buit both NTFS and FAT 16/32 need defragging whereas ext3 and 4 don't. There used to be a Windows XP utility which could read ext2 filesystems, but I don't know if there's one for Windows 7 or one which can read ext3 and ext4.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

bark_bark_bark
Posts: 1885
Joined: Tue 05 Jun 2012, 12:17
Location: Wisconsin USA

#595 Post by bark_bark_bark »

Colonel Panic wrote:There used to be a Windows XP utility which could read ext2 filesystems
There is one in the Hiren's boot CD. But you need windows to use that tool.
....

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greengeek
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#596 Post by greengeek »

Colonel Panic wrote:.. and the answer is to have a space on your hard drive which isn't NTFS and is used purely for storage - the best option IMO is to format a partition in fat32 for this. That way it can be accessed either by a Linux distro or by Windows, and Puppy's .sfs and .3fs etc. files can be put there.

And FAT32 can also be accessed by Mac systems too, so it is still quite a good option for storing data that needs to be accessed across operating systems.
Just be aware that there are a variety of size limitations that affect how useful FAT32 is. Due to the way the free space is allocated a FAT32 partition will become slower at accessing files the bigger the partition is. Apparently 32Gb is considered the biggest practical limit. (WinXP will not allow you to make a FAT32 partition bigger than this - although it is able to use a bigger one if you have created it on a different system). FAT32 partitions bigger than 32Gb will be slower, more fragmented, and also wasteful of space due to cluster sizes etc.
.

linuxbear
Posts: 620
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA

#597 Post by linuxbear »

I would back puppy up before a defrag. I made the mistake of running defrag with my Puppy-on-a-stick plugged into the USB port. The result was that Puppy would no longer boot from the USB pendrive

gcmartin

#598 Post by gcmartin »

... NTFS and FAT 16/32 need defragging whereas ext3 and 4 don't ...
I'm not quite sure this is an accurate statement.

Also, someone alluded that FAT (16/32) are bad filesystems. I'm not sure that is an accuate portrayal either.

But, of the filesystems that are mentioned, each has advantages and disadvantages.

Humbly, I must admit, that I have had little problems with the filesystems themselves as long as you use them as intended. Most problems that occur with any filesystem is application or user command level corruption or destruction.

Hope this is appreciatively useful.

Here to help

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puppyluvr
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#599 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
NTFS is just M$`s attempt to obfuscate and maintain proprietary control...
Fat 32 is an acceptable FS.. But a journaled FS like ext3 is far superiour..

Ext2IFS_1_11a.exe, attached below, works OK for me..

Tip: To "defrag" a Linux FS, copy the contents out, and back... Ta-da....
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nooby
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#600 Post by nooby »

Thanks puppyluvr .

I do remember that I've read about that trick before.

Suppose my hardisk is 250 MB and I have already
used say 200GB would one really trust a program
to be able to do that trick on it?

But I would maybe be able to defrag one iso at a time
and isos are very sensitive to be fragmented.

They refuse to boot if they are too fragmented.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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