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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Ov-Precise updated iso starts on page 8 No longer AVAILABLE
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4436
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2012, 18:01    Post subject:  

Quote:
... I could put it in the build instead of the pae kernel. ...
I'm not a distro developer. But, just a couple of notes that might help understanding.

PAE has been around since 1995. It is NOT anything new, nor is it known to have any negative impact on its use when the h/w support is built-in.

There are ONLY a handful of PCs that were built without PAE. These were vendor attempts to limit the growth and use of their PCs; thereby rendering the owner(s) to buy new should you had stopped using their Windows. This was NOT widespread as the mass-majority of all 32bit PCs came with PAE built-into the processor.

In 2006 the Industry took off on the Microsoft model and began building PCs which were capable of being physically expanded beyond 4GB of RAM.

Today, 4-6-8GB configs are sold in stores everywhere. Further geeks have expanded their older PCs to typically more that 4GB around the world.

PAE, says (in so many words) "if you have a PC, I, PAE, will insure the 32bit PAE enabled OS sees it no matter how much RAM you have in your PC."

This is why you have seen Mageia-PUP, and Precise-PUP, RACY, Slacko, and others implement PAE distros.

One more IMPORTANT (at least to me) bit of trivia. Some of the distro developers of last 2 years have been indicated a PC platform spec that they have designed their distros to work on. They have all indicated that their distros "might" work on PCs of lessor means, but, they are at least providing a recommendation (probably because those are the PC they built and tested on). You may want to let us know what platforms you are targeting your Precise toward.

PAE is really a good thing as we do NOT have to change anything in Puppy OS not matter how much RAM we add as our system grows. Other implementations stop between 3.5-4GB because the distro developers do not want you to use more than that.

Hope this makes clear what PAE is and what we were able to find out through testing in this Puppy community.

Here to help

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oldyeller


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 818
Location: Mishawaka IN

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2012, 18:05    Post subject:  

I was wandering about that, so thanks for the info

Cheers
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splot


Joined: 03 Aug 2012
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2012, 22:54    Post subject:  

Me again.
Reporting that UMPlayer by Scabz works well with TV, and it even gives me 3 channels that VLC won't play, neither will my home TV. Amazing. And I am using the same channels.conf as VLC. Go figure. It makes no sense.

I would love to be able to record these channels, but MPlayer only records U-Tube, as far as I can tell.

Are there any other TV-playing-and-recording programs available to Puppy users?
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5932
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2012, 00:08    Post subject:  

I'm sure the Puppy users with over 4 Gb of ram really appreciate the above presentation.Those Puppy users whose hardware simply won't boot with a PAE kernel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension maybe not so much. Smile
Not a big deal to me personally so I'll just once again quote Linus Torvalds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds who actually created the Linux kernel.

Quote:
PAE really really sucks.


and

Quote:
....... PAE was a total and utter disaster.


http://cl4ssic4l.wordpress.com/tag/pae-sucks/

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=554244#554244

I already have Precise built with k-3.3.6 anyway so I don't really have an agenda to promote.Just wanted both sides presented.
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pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5465
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2012, 01:08    Post subject:  

Quote:
Are there any other TV-playing-and-recording programs available to Puppy users?


I have used VLC only. There is also recording scripts created for vlc by forum member DC.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=404400
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4436
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2012, 15:43    Post subject: That is taking what he meant out of context. He indicated th
Subject description: He indicated that he has no ambitions to extend 32bit life. ... I agree.
 

James C wrote:
... .Just wanted both sides presented.
Having read and understand most, if not all of the Linux author's comments over the years on this subject, I think some have taken these snippets "out of context". In many societies that has been the case, and its no different here (referring to context).

In reality, the tests that have been conducted over the years (not just those the we, ourselves, here in Puppyland has done) show that there is NO NEGATIVE RESULTS! The benefit for those machines which have the PAE hardware is that they can address ALL RAM that can be loaded on those PCs and the users will never have to change the OS in any adding of RAM he would desire.

The Linux author NEVER said "don't use it" as some in the forum have tried to deduce. in fact, if you go back over time you see that he provided Linux with this ability as CPUs moved from 32bit to 64bit and as RAM became cheaper and larger in size.

Linus Tovalds has shown us the way for 32bit systems.

Puppy benefits in that it does something VERY UNIQUE to 32bit Puppy design. PUPPY will actually make that RAM addressable and USES!!! that RAM when the system is booted when he embraces the portions not used for system operation into the Puppy filesystem. This improves all kinds of speed benefits in overall system operation.

PAE in Puppy 32bit distro operations is a significant benefit to anyone of us who has a system that exploits it. Negative system operations have not been reported in Puppyland. Also, in the larger picture of those who have performed system tests. Test results have been done multiple times publicly (see Google) and privately (among CPU vendor's internal reports). This technology in LInux works!

Hope this clarifies. And hope others understand what Linus Tovalds meant if you go back and take in context what he meant instead of trying to take a single statement and derail a positive effort. Puppy users have already tested this. It works in our favor.

Lastly, I agree with Tovalds that he shouldn't waste anymore time trying to extend 32bit life. 64bit is here and we should use it...if possible. His plate if full as he continues to have Linux address the current and planned changes that are afoot in the Computer Systems and Pheripheral vendors and Operating Systems Arena.

I will make no further comments on this subject in this thread. I feel its the wrong place of the PAE discussion. I only offer this to the thread's author as I thought it would be of help to him (and us) in understanding. I did NOT request him to change directions, simply to have an understanding which could help all of us. I also mentioned about a statement describing platform expectations. The Puppy Forum Community have a thread that has shown all of us that PAE, in fact, works and works well to our benefit. It also includes test results from many in the community.

I have no agenda as I try to help. Puppy continues to operate as a best of breed version of Linux for what it provides us.

Here to help

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oldyeller


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 818
Location: Mishawaka IN

PostPosted: Wed 15 Aug 2012, 17:19    Post subject:  

I have just done doing the final build, which I am still testing before I upload it. Thanks to pemasu we got the repo working.

My thoughts on pets is it wrong to put pets that work on precise from other distros into the one the I have done?

Also still seeing about the help in abiword.

As far as geany goes, I remember some where on the forum that a memeber was able to change the background color. I don't know if that is way the bg is a different color or not.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5932
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 01:47    Post subject:  

One final comment to gcmartin, it's customary procedure when you accuse someone of misquoting or quoting out of context to produce some evidence proving your allegation.A simple quote,and link to the source, from Linus Torvalds where he recommends using PAE on a desktop computer (not a server) would suffice.
We can agree to disagree but I certainly don't appreciate it being implied that I misquoted anyone.
Back to the normal precise thread. Smile
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5932
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 01:54    Post subject:  

I am in the process of compiling k-3.2.27 (the newest version of the long-term support kernel)......... takes a while on that old Athlon XP though. Laughing

If you would like a kernel pet and source sfs I'll gladly upload them. It's primarily for my personal use but I don't mind sharing...... Smile

EDIT:
Build failed....try again tomorrow I guess..... Laughing
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pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5465
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 08:34    Post subject:  

I have compiled in Precise Puppy 3.2.27 using Barry`s specs, I just included those missing dvb tuner drivers.
It is still pae kernel.... without taking any sides. Lol. I just used Barry`s DOTconfig without thinking anything.
I decided to update previous kernel to the latest LTS updated version.
I can upload my product...but it will be tomorrow. Today too busy.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5932
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 10:19    Post subject:  

Great news...a new kernel is always good. Smile

Re-compiling 3.2.27 (non-pae) here too ....... had an aufs problem earlier but the old Athlon XP is churning away again..... Laughing
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Billtoo


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2154
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 10:21    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:
I have compiled in Precise Puppy 3.2.27 using Barry`s specs, I just included those missing dvb tuner drivers.
It is still pae kernel.... without taking any sides. Lol. I just used Barry`s DOTconfig without thinking anything.
I decided to update previous kernel to the latest LTS updated version.
I can upload my product...but it will be tomorrow. Today too busy.


I updated my slackware 14 install this morning and it updated the
kernel to 3.2.27-smp, it downloads more than one version of the kernel
and the version used on this pc sees all of the ram.
I see no mention of PAE, it shows this in the grub4dos menu.lst file:

title Linux huge smp 3 2 27 smp (sda2/boot)

Hardinfo shows:

Computer
Processor 2x Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E4500 @ 2.20GHz
Memory 4070MB (273MB used)
Operating System Slackware 14.0

Operating System
Version
Kernel Linux 3.2.27-smp (i686)
Compiled #2 SMP Mon Aug 13 17:44:26 CDT 2012

Is this is an alternative to PAE?
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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 765
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 10:32    Post subject:  

Hi pemasu

Would like to try the latest LTS kernel
So an upload when you have time would be great.

Thanks - Ray

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oldyeller


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 818
Location: Mishawaka IN

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 11:53    Post subject:  

pemasu wrote:
I have compiled in Precise Puppy 3.2.27 using Barry`s specs, I just included those missing dvb tuner drivers.
It is still pae kernel.... without taking any sides. Lol. I just used Barry`s DOTconfig without thinking anything.
I decided to update previous kernel to the latest LTS updated version.
I can upload my product...but it will be tomorrow. Today too busy.


Looking forward to this as well. with all these kernels it will be interesting to see the possibilities that will come.

Cheers
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scabz


Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 308
Location: Tallahassee FL US

PostPosted: Thu 16 Aug 2012, 12:08    Post subject:  

oldyeller wrote:
My thoughts on pets is it wrong to put pets that work on precise from other distros into the one the I have done?


I was just wondering that myself.
I think pets should be compiled in puppy percise or created from ubuntu percise debs, just my opinion i dont know what is right.

but there are some apps and libs that just will not compile for me.
QT, umplayer, smplayer and smtube all compiled fine for me.
xine-lib, xine-ui, vcdimager and a few other that are needed for goggles music manager will not compile for the life of me.

stuff i compiled in lucid works in percise like googlesmm and needed dep..
so i dont know where to go from here.
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