OLD: mpdPup - Simplified MPD Music Server/Jukebox - v0.9.2

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RayCtech

#381 Post by RayCtech »

Removed - OT
Last edited by RayCtech on Tue 28 Aug 2012, 04:38, edited 1 time in total.

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#382 Post by edbk »

PET-240 wrote:Hey edbk,

Can you throw a couple links up for the mobo's you mentioned please?

Taw

Drew.
Sure Drew.

This is with supplying power by a lineair high quality PS in mind so powerusage focused.

ARM:

Beaglebone:
http://beagleboard.org/static/beaglebon ... README.htm
Can buy these everywhere, farnell, digikey etc for $89
10/100 ethernet on chip seperate from usb, can be powered by just 5V 1A if you dont run devices off usb power etc

Kontron Tegra 3:
http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards ... 0mitx.html
Pretty cool if you would wanna run crossovers/room correction

The Ouya (Tegra 3) would be very cool ofcourse at just $99, hackable and will run about everything very soon I'd guess:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouya

The Cubox RayCtech is using:
http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
No idea when they will be available again, coolest option available right now I think but your on your own for building kernels etc, although RayCtech? 8)

X86:

Intel Atom N2600/N2800 options seem a bit dissapointing, Jetway has a N2600 board but the M/B draws a lot of power so your better of with an older Atom on say a Gigabyte board. The Intel N2800 board can run on around 9V/1.5A but cant change voltages/clockspeeds. No real good options here so far.

AMD eOntario (G-series):

Jetway has 2 boards with em but Jetway doesnt seem energy efficient with their mainboards.

fit-PC3 LP:
http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc/fit-pc3-info/#techinfo
7-15 watts depending on extra options, $400ish but a complete minibox

Kontron again:
http://us.kontron.com/products/boards+a ... mmitx.html

Advantech:
http://www.advantech.com/products/MIO-5 ... 96A5E.aspx
State ~7 watts total consumption for the lower clocked cpu's

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#383 Post by edbk »

RayCtech wrote: Do not waste money on the boards without GigaBit network.
The boards without GigaBit network have a completely crippled I/O system.
Everything is connected via a USB HUB - so the USB 2.0 Audio adapter must share resources with network, SD / CF / SATA etc..
Yeah only the beaglebone (not its bigger brother beageleboard) has non shared ethernet. All the nVidia Tegra boards have their own ethernet ports aswell.

Cant find any other decent looking armada 510 boards though apart from the cubox.. HP, Wyse etc have thin clients but dont know if they're hackable. There's this one but can find much on it apart from some comments on it being expensive:
http://compulab.co.il/products/sbcs/sbc-a510/

wlowes
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri 08 Jun 2012, 02:30
Location: Toronto, Canada

#384 Post by wlowes »

multiblitz wrote:
Have you tried the tweaks in the voyage thread ? I implemented your tweaks....without them, I would not be impressed at all. Your work was gold worth !
HI multiblitz
I am glad to hear the tweaks helped. I have not tried the voyage tweaks or RT core. I plan to drill further into this in a few weeks. I am building amps and over the past month had to learn to be a cabinet maker to build the wood bases for my monoblocks. What a great hobby. Building hardware one day, tweaking operating systems the next and then wood working. So much to learn.

I am very interested in Raytech's work in optimizing USB. It did not make sense that WaveIO on USB2 should depend on nrpack setting. Could it be that there are simply flaws in the USB implementation that Raytech has eliminated by stripping it down to its essential core? Have not had time to consider it but curious to see if we can put this into the Alix.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#385 Post by multiblitz »

RayCtech wrote: I have had a lot of trouble to be able to build the kernel and the base filesystem.
Well...I would LOVE to follow your way, but I am a complete Linux newbie...could you give a little guidance what you did and how we can benefit from your learnings ?

How is your big machine sounding compared to thsi small one ?

By the way: Just started my comparison W7/Jriver and Z68 MAchine vs Alix 1D2. Both with Sotm-card and in both card the card got its own linear PSU.

The W7 machine seems to have mor contour and enegery in the bass area. Besides, this: Mids and treble sound much more "technical". Not really harsh, but like a metal can. 3d-effect is there, but limited, the room is OK, but not very deep.

The 1D2: Seems to have the same transperancy, but completly natural sounding. It is simply "there". Soft, but not hazy or with less information, actually with more information regarding the 3D-effect. The room is much, much deeper. The only thing is that the BAss has not the same energy, is clearly softer. But sofar I have not changed the caps or anything.

I will repeat this test, need to twek the W7 machine toward integer settings and install jplay. Need to tweak the Alix-Bios as well to integer and play with the memory setting / latencies.

Would be interested to listen to the ARM-Boards, but I am not sure if they would meet the quality of the SOTM-Card...if yes, this would be the ultimate solution, i guess.

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#386 Post by edbk »

Hey multiblitz,

So Id say you would prefer the alix :) Next up installing mpdpup on your W7 machine (or boot from an usb stick)? and compare? :lol:

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#387 Post by multiblitz »

I would love to do that....but the DHCP/Ip-adress issue is preventing me to compare...I need a new kernel/better driver support for the z68 support...

ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

#388 Post by ldolse »

multiblitz wrote:I would love to do that....but the DHCP/Ip-adress issue is preventing me to compare...I need a new kernel/better driver support for the z68 support...
You were able to force it to get an IP on that system, manually, correct? If you only want to do it for the sake of comparison it should be possible then.
Basically you'd need to follow the same steps to force it to get an IP address before you run the the mpd wizard. Set the system up. When it reboots it will again fail to get an IP address based on your last report. Start X by typing 'xwin' at the command line. Run the network wizard again so that it gets an address. After that go back to the command line and enter these two commands:

Code: Select all

mount-a
mpd
Assuming it was successful at getting an IP the second time around then you should be good for comparison purposes. Exit from X and go back to the command line for the most accurate comparison. Not something I'd want to do every day, but acceptable for a quick A/B.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#389 Post by multiblitz »

thx...just did my first try...i am connected, but mpad does not see any albums....when and how does mpd create the libary ?

ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

#390 Post by ldolse »

multiblitz wrote:thx...just did my first try...i am connected, but mpad does not see any albums....when and how does mpd create the libary ?
After typing 'mount -a' you should have something under /mnt/music, are your music directories showing up when you type the following (if the music is in a subdirectory you should add it):

Code: Select all

ls /mnt/music/
If the database is empty it will take a bit for mpd to populate it - you can use the following commands to check on the status:
mpc status (will tell you if the database is being updated)
mpc update (will force an update if it hasn't started)
mpc listall (shows you all the tracks in the library, if a fresh database is being populated this will grow rapidly)

Once you're sure the DB is being updated you can refresh the local cache in the MPaD settings - it will grab whatever the current DB state is.

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#391 Post by multiblitz »

Ok...made it work, thanks a lot.

I took Misa Criolla with Jose Carreras, some Opus 3 recordings, John Pfeiffer (Classic Sampler). So basically Jazz and Classic, all very good recordings. "So Nice" - Dianna Krall etc.

Setting of MPDpup the same on both machines.

Finally I asked my wife for her impressions and she basically confirmed what I hear (both with Sotm-card with own linear PSU):

1. Z68 Board with MPDpup: Much, much better than W7/Jriver. The metal can is gone. You finally can listen Music and not to effects / compensations effects.

2. Alix 1d2: Does everything what the Z68 does, but with more liquidity / naturalness and better 3D. A pure Music Machine, eventhough no mods on the motherboard made and PSU is a 8 $ switching PSU.

The combination of Mpdpup + Alix1d2 + Sotm card seems to have a synergistic effect. The sotm card brings you a richer tone, that vibrates more fluently. It unreveals what is possible with Alix and MPDpup. Without you have a very good solution, but not what I would consider "high-end". but for 300$ to jump in the leagues of ultra-high-end....well not a bad deal...

What's next ?

It will take some time, but I will:
- Buy another Alix-Board, mod it to compared to standard (and to have one in stock if mine breaks at some point of time...and there are some friends who wait for testing it themselves)
- Bring the Alix as well onto a lnear PSU
- Try with the same routine Atom-based boards and compare them with Alix...today they loose IP-adress as well...

...and start to rip like hell.... :D :D :D

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#392 Post by edbk »

Nice results multiblitz!

Will be interesting if the sotm card still makes that big a difference when the alix is powered by a decent lineair psu. What are you using as linear psu's?

Did the bios tweaking/downclocking have a big effect?

What part of Germany are you located?

ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

#393 Post by ldolse »

Thanks Multiblitz, nice to see an apples to apples JRiver comparison - I haven't seen a lot of direct comparisons to the big gorillas of the Windows & Mac world. Did you stick the SOTM card back on the Z68 board for that test, or was it with the stock USB?

multiblitz
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat 28 Jul 2012, 17:52

#394 Post by multiblitz »

No, I put the Sotm card back, of course.

jrling
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed 27 Jun 2012, 13:51

#395 Post by jrling »

I can vouch for the leap in SQ moving from Win 7/JRiver to mpdpup.
I spent a whole load of my life trying to minimise the extraneous guff in Windows not needed for a dedicated music transport, breaking Windows many times in the process and although I improved SQ significantly by so doing, the 5 minute mpdpup install, load GMPC and play with such beautiful SQ so much better, was an eye-opener. Using Atom D510 dual core board and WaveIO USB-S/PDIF converter.

Will never return to Windows!
Actually I am now embarking on tweaking mpdpup! Already gained significantly with kind help from Walter with NRpacks, settings in mpd.conf et al. That's not scratching the surface of what can be achieved, I am sure. Resampling to 32/176.4 has also made great improvement (thanks RayCtech)

Difficult for me to know what Idolse has included/excluded from the Kernel (but whatever it is an excellent result), but I wonder if there is worthwhile mileage in tweaking thread priority and may be turning off any processes in mpdpup not strictly needed (for me anyhow)? My problem is that I know how to do that in Windows but not in Linux.

Have any users experimented on those fronts?

Jonathan

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#396 Post by edbk »

jrling wrote: Resampling to 32/176.4 has also made great improvement (thanks RayCtech)
Jonathan
Does that actually has an effect on the 24bits wavio aswell? I remember reading something about spreading out losses so it was beneficial anyhow? Are you resampling RT or did you upsample your collection offline?

Thanks :)

Btw Im comparing beaglebone/atom/waveio/mpd with mac mini/pure music/m2tech evo when my new hardware comes in.

RayCtech

#397 Post by RayCtech »

Removed - OT
Last edited by RayCtech on Tue 28 Aug 2012, 04:36, edited 1 time in total.

ldolse
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri 23 Oct 2009, 16:33

#398 Post by ldolse »

libaudiofile is not the default wav/aiff lib on mpdPup, libsndfile is the default. Most USB audio adapters I've dealt with to date only support s24LE, sounds like some newer ones have implemented 32bit.

If people are curious about libsndfile vs. libaudiofile both are installed. You can toggle between the two with the following commands:

Code: Select all

mpdwizard disable_sndfile
/etc/init.d/20.mpd restart

Code: Select all

mpdwizard disable_audiofile
/etc/init.d/20.mpd restart
Note the sndfile vs. audiofile discussion is only relevant for wav/aiff - other formats will use other decoding libraries.

edbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon 20 Aug 2012, 09:16

#399 Post by edbk »

RayCtech,

There is a new stock of Cuboxes, its a new revision with the following changes:
<rabeeh_> Kiranos: the rev2 board is almost identical to rev1, except changed some circuitry for better EMI, FTDI instead of Prolofic usb to serial
<rabeeh_> there is newer features and fixes like SD card-detect, capability of detecting if there is power through the usb to serial, reset functionality and boot select from xmodem also through the FTDI
<rabeeh_> will post on that on the forums and update the wiki accordingly.
<rabeeh_> besides that everything is 100% compatible with REV1.

I ordered one anyway to do some comparisons later on.

jrling
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed 27 Jun 2012, 13:51

#400 Post by jrling »

edbk - "Does that actually has an effect on the 24bits wavio aswell? I remember reading something about spreading out losses so it was beneficial anyhow? Are you resampling RT or did you upsample your collection offline?"

32 bit does work with WaveIO fine. As RayCtec reports earlier, the extra 8 bits although not used in my 24 bit DAC may reduce noise/dither. I also guess that if one used the volume control in mpdpup, that the extra bits may help reduce losses too. That's a guess.

I am resampling in RT, but my dual core Atom D510 board will only successfully do 176.4/32 in 'Medium' SRC not 'Best' - but even in 'Medium' sounds pretty damn good. I am proposing resampling files offline with Sox and testing that against RT sampled files - if only I knew how to do so!

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