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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
Opinions on a new puppy possibility
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 19
Location: Quesnel, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 14 Sep 2012, 18:53    Post_subject:  Opinions on a new puppy possibility  

I have been using Puppy Lupu 5.2, I started with an earlier version. My preferred use of this puppy has evolved with my needs and experimentation. I put so much time into customization and sfs builds that I'm hesitant to redo it all for Slacko 5.3.3.

One of the things I especially liked about Puppy, is that with the frugal install I could change puppy versions easily, and with SFS files I could extend puppy without permanent change to the base file system.

When a new Firefox or Filezilla version came out I simply modified my SFS file for that program and restarted Puppy. I kept as much code out of the personal save file as possible.

This was perfect for keeping my USB version in sync with the features available in my frugal install on my workstation. Every new SFS file I created was copied to the USB version as well as locally. My systems were so identical sometimes I would forget I was booted to the USB version until I tried to find a file that I had downloaded. I save to a different location in the frugal build.

Now my problem. I noticed that the Slacko 5.3.3 build did not recognize my personal save file. Perhaps the solution is as simple as renaming the file but perhaps not. I have a lot of personal data in the personal save file which is encrypted. Yes I did at one time learn how to open an encrypted personal save file so I could copy files out of it etc. so I am not stuck. I am also quite happy that the encryption for the personal save file (now) actually works with a password that is longer than 8 characters. There was a time when it did not. So building a new personal save file with a longer password is a desirable thing presently.

But I feel I am at a sort of crossroads. There are many things which were built into the base file lupu_520.sfs that I would have liked to be in a separate sfs file to make them easier to update without messing with the base sfs file. Then again, when a new kernel is available it would be nice to update the kernel in my system.

So I have been considering the possibility of using woof to create my own system. But I have limited resources (time mostly) so perhaps it is better if I put some time into helping with an existing puppy version.

What I am looking for in an existing system:
Ability to use all available RAM
Small base sfs size, I don't need a ton of frequently changed software embedded into the base sfs file.
Ability to use multiple SFS files, loaded at boot and afterwords.
Support for strong encryption
An easy to understand menu system, so custom SFS file creation with included menu and desktop items are not such a chore.
Ability to boot from multiple target hardware systems, USB version is used to troubleshoot end users computers.
Ability to develop software, compile and run C, C++, perl, python, etc..
Stable and secure source for base packages

Additionally, I will be working towards having a platform that will let me install and run software that insists on being run as a user other than root. This software is usually provided in binary form with an installer.

My USB version has been modified so that it does not automatically save changes. It prompts to save changes at shutdown so it is possible to keep it unchanged after a visit to a client with potentially hostile software on their sick computer.

Should I be working with an existing puppy version or should I create my own? What do you think?

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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
Posts: 1783

PostPosted: Fri 14 Sep 2012, 21:50    Post_subject:  

rdog wrote:
Then again, when a new kernel is available it would be nice to update the kernel in my system.

For that part, go here.
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Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1012
Location: Union New Jersey USA

PostPosted: Sat 15 Sep 2012, 14:31    Post_subject: Easy Upgrading of Lupus  

Hi rdog,

I recommend that you consider Barry K's PAE version of precise. http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=76961. PAE means it can use greater than 4Gb of Ram. Because, like Lupu, it is a woof build based on Ubuntu (just a later kernel and apps) all, or almost all, of your current pets and sfses should be functional. Consequently, you can build the sfses you want in your current system: they should work under precise, and you can upgrade them later at your convenience. [There are currently 4 versions of precise, three from Barry K, and the OV-precise built by Old Yeller. While they're all labeled “beta” their rough-edges are with regard to some internal workings. All function beautifully on my Quod-core, 6Gb ram, running faster than Lupu 5.28, and able to use all my Lupu apps. You shouldn't run into any complications upgrading to the final version from the beta version].
You might want to take a look at playdz's tutorial on "program folders," http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=29562, DaveS' thread on Opera at mnt/home. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=63393, and my post here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=644804#644804 I currently run both opera and firefox from such "out-of-the-SaveFile" location. My firefox installation, originally firefox 12, has been successfully upgraded a couple of times and now is at 15.0.1. Upgrading required nothing more than clicking help on the menubar, then clicking check for upgrades and allowing it to occur. [If I wanted to play it safe, I could have first copied the folder holding the current version to a folder with a different name so that I could revert if problems arose]. Upgrading opera requires that its tar-build be downloaded, unpacked, the folder renamed such as opera12, and tested by clicking the executable. Applications in external folders are called via scripts in /my-applications/bin. If all appeared OK, I need only change the name of the folder for the current version of opera to opera11, and rename the opera12 folder as opera. The script would then call opera12 since it looks for the executable in the whatever folder is named opera. Unlike upgrading SFSes, the icons you removed from your desktop don't reappear. Additionally, external folders are dynamic. Adding plugins/addons/extensions and changes to your config files do not eat up space in your SaveFile. And, as aforementioned, you can test an upgrade without being committed to it.
I think my skype is also via a "program folder." It's been a while since I downloaded it. It is, at any rate, run from /mnt/home rather than an sfs or an installed pet.
Most folders which will contain data, and most config files can be moved out of your home folder and symlinked back. External folders which will contain data can be symlinked to your home folder. Applications, such as LibreOffice, will “see” such folders as being in your home folder permitting you to save to them without having to do extensive browsing.
Moving as much as possible out of your SaveFile not only reduces the need to resize it as your system expands, it makes it easy to upgrade your OS in the future simply by creating symlinks from the external files/folders to your new OS.
Another thing you might consider is the use of portable linux applications. See http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=489862&search_id=1016412980 for links. Portable Linux apps are tested under Ubuntu (and two other major distros) and should function under Precise. As Lobster said, applications compiled in Puppies are probably smaller and preferable. But, essentially being pre-packaged “program folders” containing all necessary libs, they will not conflict with other applications you're using, and make upgrades of your OS and applications easier. Since they are “external” programs, incorporating them into a Puppy is just a matter of (easy>drag and drop executable to desktop, select link-relative or) creating symlinks or scripts in my-applications/bin, an icon in usr/share/pixmaps and a .desktop file in usr/share/applications [and perhaps a pet of these files so you don't have to do it again). My FBReader and Avidemux are Linux portables. If you go to the above website and click on the suggestive but unfortunately unnamed icons you'll find many applications that otherwise would not be available to Puppy. Some might not run, but getting rid of those is a simple matter of deleting the folder (which appears as an named i"steering wheel" con).

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Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat 15 Sep 2012, 20:11    Post_subject:  

Another thing you might consider is the use of portable linux applications. See http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=489862&search_id=1016412980 for links.

This one, presented here is completely removed.

I have tested a lot of links - everywhere the same message Crying or Very sad

LazY Puppy
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Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 6698
Location: lisbon

PostPosted: Sun 16 Sep 2012, 07:18    Post_subject:  

What about here?
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 19
Location: Quesnel, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Mon 17 Sep 2012, 19:23    Post_subject:  

Thank you everyone for the replies. I'll look into the PAE version of Precise as it does indeed sound like an easier migration.
Take Care,
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