Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM

Booting, installing, newbie
Message
Author
Jasper

#21 Post by Jasper »

QtWeb has much to commend it, certainly in terms of load and rendering speed where, like Dillo, it is lightning fast on my 14 year old desktop running Slacko 5.3.1.

However. the download is 13MB v 0.7MB for Dillo 2.2 (an eighteenfold, though probably unimportant increase), but my total RAM usage has increased to 107MB v 51MB for Dillo.

starhawk now adds speed as a new requirement - I have no idea what the effect would be if I had only 128MB of RAM and a 384MB Swap partition, but perhaps he, or anyone, would care to test QtWeb v Dillo and report back.

I use SeaMonkey mostly because it suits my needs best, but Dillo and QtWeb render some three times faster. they also load from scratch about four times faster (which is unimportant because I have plenty of RAM and all browsers load immediately from being minimised in my tray).

PS I just closed the QtWeb bookmarks side bar and total RAM usage went down from 107MB (per the screenshot) to 95MB and that seems, to me, to be more than peculiar.
Attachments
QtWeb.jpg
(93.5 KiB) Downloaded 412 times

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#22 Post by starhawk »

ClassicPup results are in...

Not faster than Akita, possibly a little slower. Still no audio.

Dustbin time. At least all I wasted was a CD-R and some time.

User avatar
rjbrewer
Posts: 4405
Joined: Tue 22 Jan 2008, 21:41
Location: merriam, kansas

#23 Post by rjbrewer »

starhawk wrote:ClassicPup results are in...

Not faster than Akita, possibly a little slower. Still no audio.

Dustbin time. At least all I wasted was a CD-R and some time.
Get a cd-rw. :P

Inspiron 700m, Pent.M 1.6Ghz, 1Gb ram.
Msi Wind U100, N270 1.6>2.0Ghz, 1.5Gb ram.
Eeepc 8g 701, 900Mhz, 1Gb ram.
Full installs

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#24 Post by starhawk »

Only place that has optical media locally is the almighty Wal*Mart.

They don't SELL -RW discs there. Only -R.

:cry:

User avatar
L18L
Posts: 3479
Joined: Sat 19 Jun 2010, 18:56
Location: www.eussenheim.de/

#25 Post by L18L »

Code: Select all

mkswap
or

Code: Select all

cfdisk
Keep on trying :wink:

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#26 Post by bigpup »

starhawk wrote:ClassicPup results are in...

Not faster than Akita, possibly a little slower. Still no audio.

Dustbin time. At least all I wasted was a CD-R and some time.
I said try it. Every computer reacts, to different versions of Puppy, in their own way. Sound issues can usually be fixed with a little setting tweaking.
Your topic title is "Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM".
Now you want that and the fastest operating system out there.
That would be a Linux version that works only in commands at a Linux "Command prompt" and uses programs that are very simple in operation.
With program added features comes bloat.
The result of adding new features to a program
or system to the point where the benefit of the new features
is outweighed by the extra resources consumed ({RAM}, disk
space or performance) and complexity of use. Software bloat
is an instance of Parkinson's Law: resource requirements
expand to consume the resources available. Causes of software
bloat include {second-system effect} and {creeping
featuritis}. Commonly cited examples include Unix's "{ls}(1)"
command, the {X Window System}, {BSD}, {Missed'em-five},
{OS/2} and any {Microsoft} product.
and any {Microsoft} product.
I like that statement!! :shock: :lol:
creeping featuritis
That's a good one too :lol: 8) :shock: :wink:
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#27 Post by bigpup »

Dustbin time. At least all I wasted was a CD-R and some time.
Give it to a needy Windows user.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#28 Post by starhawk »

The /original/ title of this thread, was more descriptive of what I actually wanted addressed. Re-read the first post and you'll see there are three questions. IIRC only one had to do with swap -- and that question has long been answered. The original title was something along the lines of "three questions regarding the infernal dell" -- I assume when I start talking along those lines, people know I'm mouthing off at this particular CPi. I've only made somewhere around a dozen plus threads on it :shock:

Flash seems to like retitling my posts, on the premise that people will actually read more than that before replying. The fallacy is that even he apparently didn't read the whole first post -- hence why the title is almost completely inaccurate. This is unfortunately not the first time this has happened. I think Flash is either a skimmer or a speed-reader who has not perfected his technique yet -- but then again, I could be wrong. I can't look over his shoulder -- he's half the country away in Arizona (I'm in NC) and my eyesight's not that great :wink:

So should I persist with an incorrect but mod-assigned title and deal with the assumptions of people who jump right in having read only the title and maybe a few posts, or do I re-title it myself the way it should be -- and risk mod-wrath and possibly a ban?

You tell me.

EDIT: I was wrong. Two questions of the three deal with swap. I'll repeat all three here for clarity's sake since I tend to be a bit of a windbag.

(1) Full install of Puplite5 on an ext3 f/s partition does not seem to function. It only mounts "read-only" even though it's not supposed to and, upon attempting to boot, errors out almost instantly. Why does this happen?
(2) Is it safe to put swap on flash-based media such as a CF card? [SOLVED -- the answer is "yes".]
(3) Versions of Puppy roughly 511 and earlier have a bug in Gparted that prevents swap space from being correctly created. Any attempt results in an unusable unoccupied partition with an "unknown filesystem". Why is this?

User avatar
Flash
Official Dog Handler
Posts: 13071
Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 16:04
Location: Arizona USA

#29 Post by Flash »

I read enough of the first post to see that you asked three questions. That's bad form in a forum like this, as it "braids" the resulting thread, making it hard for anyone to follow - either someone who's trying to help or someone who's looking for an answer. It's better to make each thread about only one subject. So I picked the question in your first post that seemed dominant and made the subject line about that.



P.S. By the way you do know that you can edit your posts, including their subject lines? When thinking up a subject line, consider that people might misunderstand it. Remember, they don't know what you know. :wink:

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#30 Post by starhawk »

OK, since you're the expert...

Which of these three would have been the best option?
(1) Make one thread about the three issues, in the Beginners Help section.
(2) Make THREE threads, each with a different issue, in the Beginners Help section.
(3) Make THREE threads, and place them in other sections of the forum (please specify locations).
(4) Other, please specify.

You tell me and I'll try to remember for next time. What I wanted to do, was make things a little easier for you by not cluttering up the place with umpteen billions of threads. I've had more than a few regarding this craptop, and I didn't want to increase that threadcount by much -- there's a fine line between "asking a couple questions" and "spamming the forum".

...and I'm fully aware of the ability to edit my own titles. I just didn't want to edit /your/ edit and tick you off even more. Last thing I ever want is a ban. Been there (on another forum), done that -- and it wasn't pretty. Bans cut me off from people I like.

ggg

#31 Post by ggg »

(4) Other, please specify.
(1) Google more and more effectively (e.g. type any Latin phrase then click)

(2) Don't waffle, don't embellish needlessly, don't exaggerate (e.g. billions)

(3) Don't be rude (e.g. it [Puppy] has no bloody idea [it hasn't - devs might])

(4) Never mind wasting your time - think about the cumulative time of others

(5) Don't be tetchy, choose a short informative heading and a single theme.

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#32 Post by bigpup »

(3) Versions of Puppy roughly 511 and earlier have a bug in Gparted that prevents swap space from being correctly created. Any attempt results in an unusable unoccupied partition with an "unknown filesystem". Why is this?
Maybe has to do with the version of Gparted that is in these earlier versions of Puppy and your hardware.

Good question for a separate topic.

To really dig down to the cause, the first thing is determine if you are following the proper procedure to make a swap partition. Not an insult to your ability, but first step in troubleshooting a problem is start at a known point and work out from there.
Any attempt results in an unusable unoccupied partition with an "unknown filesystem
This statement tells me you have tried to do it, but does not tell me what steps you did and what happens at each step in the process. These are the clues to the answer.

If I need to do any real partitioning and formatting I use a Gparted live CD to do it. The latest version is up to date Gparted with latest bug fixes.
Info:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
Download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gparted ... ve-stable/
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#33 Post by starhawk »

Steps that I almost always use to make a drive ready for Puppy:

- Delete any existing partitions
- Select most of the drive (most = minus whatever I want for swap) as ext3
- Select a small part (256-1024mb) as linux-swap
- Click the RUN icon and let gparted do its thing

So for this, I had 3820mb to play with. Delete current partition(s), set a 3436mb ext3 partition, and a 384mb linux-swap partition. Then I click RUN.

It removes the old partition(s) just fine, and sticks in the new ext3 partition quite easily, but when it comes time to make the linux-swap partition, it errors out -- IIRC I looked at the log once and Puppy was trying to mount the swap as it was being made -- I'll have to check that again and make certain what it says. All I know for sure right now is that the last step in the process, where it actually makes the partition there and useful, that's where it mucked up.

I'll also note that it can't seem to make the swap turn off. Yeah, there's swapoff -- in and out of gparted -- but it doesn't work at all. IIRC I got it to work by opening a terminal and typing swapoff /dev/sda2 but I could be wrong about that.

ggg

#34 Post by ggg »

..only one [two] had to do with swap -- and that [/those..?] question has long been answered.
So what are you still muttering on about - that's a rhetorical question.
..opening a terminal and typing swapoff /dev/sda2 but I could be wrong about that.
So what is "that", as it worked - that's another rhetorical question.

Google puppy linux swapoff command and read the first result to confirm what you know works.

However, with a mere 128MB RAM do explain why you need help and swapoff /dev/sda2? That's my question.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Google google effectively then read, digest and give us a break for a few days.

User avatar
bigpup
Posts: 13886
Joined: Sun 11 Oct 2009, 18:15
Location: S.C. USA

#35 Post by bigpup »

Just something to try to see if it has an affect.
When using Gparted perform each procedure as a separate operation.
Do not do as a combo process.
At completion of each, look for desired result. I have seen Gparted mess up if you give it combination process. I know it is suppose to handle multiple processes, but a possible cause of problem to eliminate.

Have you tried with a newer version of Gparted than the one that comes with Puppy?
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#36 Post by starhawk »

@ggg: if I turn the swap off, the swap partition becomes something that gparted can manipulate.

@bigpup: I've tried it as a single command as well -- just trying to add the swap partition to where it didn't work before. No change in behavior.

...where is there an upgrade to gparted that I can install into Puppy to see if that fixes things? A gparted livecd won't really help here...

User avatar
Flash
Official Dog Handler
Posts: 13071
Joined: Wed 04 May 2005, 16:04
Location: Arizona USA

#37 Post by Flash »

Actually a Gparted live CD might just solve your problem. Puppy really requires more than 128 MB of RAM without swap. A Gparted live CD will run happily in much less RAM than that. It's a catch-22: how can Puppy use your swap partition while Gparted in Puppy is messing with the swap partition? Or would that be a chicken-egg problem? :?

User avatar
Monsie
Posts: 631
Joined: Thu 01 Dec 2011, 07:37
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM

#38 Post by Monsie »

Flash wrote:Actually a Gparted live CD might just solve your problem. Puppy really requires more than 128 MB of RAM without swap. A Gparted live CD will run happily in much less RAM than that. It's a catch-22: how can Puppy use your swap partition while Gparted in Puppy is messing with the swap partition? Or would that be a chicken-egg problem? :?
I just checked the "Gparted --About" page at SourceForge and found this:
Requirements

GParted can be used on x86 and x86-64 based computers running Linux, Windows, or Mac OS X by booting from media containing GParted Live. A minimum of 128 MB of RAM is needed to use all of the features of the GParted application.
For the record, I have been using Gparted live version 0.72 for the past three years on a variety of computers and have not had any problems yet... In my opinion, it's the way to go...

Monsie
My [u]username[/u] is pronounced: "mun-see". Derived from my surname, it was my nickname throughout high school.

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#39 Post by starhawk »

I do usually use a LiveCD when the internal Puppy version falls down on the job. Trouble is, mine is missing :( I'll download a replacement later.

My concern was more "OK, what if there's an update to gparted that fixes this bug?", AND "what if it's not gparted that's causing the problem, but Puppy itself?"

I'm running basic troubleshooting here. Either gparted is falling down on the job, or Puppy is mucking it up, and I'm trying to figure out which is the issue. If a replacement (newer) gparted pet is installed and the problem goes away, that was the problem. If it doesn't... Puppy gotta problem in its history.

starhawk
Posts: 4906
Joined: Mon 22 Nov 2010, 06:04
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

#40 Post by starhawk »

OK... in the name of science...

Puplite5 (Wary kernel version), gparted 0.4.5...

Swapoff errors out with:
Could not deactivate swap
swapoff: invalid option -- v
BusyBox v1.8.2 (2007-11-30 09:20:42 GMT-8) multi-call binary

Usage: swapoff [-a] [DEVICE]

Stop swapping virtual memory pages on DEVICE

Options:
-a Stop swapping on all swap devices
OK, open rxvt for the 'hard way'. Cmd swapoff -a does not error but pmconky shows no change -- so it didn't work but it didn't error.

Take II. Cmd swapoff /dev/sda2 *does* work. pmconky eventually shows change, as does refreshing the display in gparted.

Now to re-partition the swap partiton as... swap. Science!

Right-click on /dev/sda2 (linux-swap, 383.00mb), select format to->linux-swap. Then punch Apply, and click through the worthless "are you sure" dialog.

Errors out as expected. calibrate /dev/sda2 worked. set partition type on /dev/sda2 worked. create new linux-swap file system failed -- instantly. The command that apparently did not work is mkswap -L "" /dev/sda2. This time I'll save the log, and then open it to see what's going on. Of note, the filesystem on /dev/sda2 is now "unknown" and there is a yellow exclamation triangle next to it.

gparted saves its logs as *.htm files -- hmm, have to open with geany and wade through the tags. Unfortunately, there's nothing there except what it popped up on the screen -- and therefore we have a mystery still. Of note, it does mention that the libparted version is 1.8.8.

OK, let's have some fun.

Any command more specific than mkswap /dev/sda2 (i.e. specifying options) errors out. No error is given, but the usage info is displayed, indicating a problem occurred. That exact command does work.

Cmd swapon displays usage information. swapon -a does not error out but does not work, as indicated in both pmconky and gparted. swapon /dev/sda2 does work.

...so I would hazard that the issue is not gparted itself, but mkswap, which appears to be part of busybox. This tends to indicate that the version of busybox used with older-kernel (Wary 511 and earlier) Puppies is somewhat defective.

Post Reply