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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM
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ggg

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 04:53    Post_subject:  

Quote:
(4) Other, please specify.

(1) Google more and more effectively (e.g. type any Latin phrase then click)

(2) Don't waffle, don't embellish needlessly, don't exaggerate (e.g. billions)

(3) Don't be rude (e.g. it [Puppy] has no bloody idea [it hasn't - devs might])

(4) Never mind wasting your time - think about the cumulative time of others

(5) Don't be tetchy, choose a short informative heading and a single theme.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 10:31    Post_subject:  

Quote:
(3) Versions of Puppy roughly 511 and earlier have a bug in Gparted that prevents swap space from being correctly created. Any attempt results in an unusable unoccupied partition with an "unknown filesystem". Why is this?

Maybe has to do with the version of Gparted that is in these earlier versions of Puppy and your hardware.

Good question for a separate topic.

To really dig down to the cause, the first thing is determine if you are following the proper procedure to make a swap partition. Not an insult to your ability, but first step in troubleshooting a problem is start at a known point and work out from there.
Quote:
Any attempt results in an unusable unoccupied partition with an "unknown filesystem

This statement tells me you have tried to do it, but does not tell me what steps you did and what happens at each step in the process. These are the clues to the answer.

If I need to do any real partitioning and formatting I use a Gparted live CD to do it. The latest version is up to date Gparted with latest bug fixes.
Info:
http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php
Download:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/gparted/files/gparted-live-stable/

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2992
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 12:11    Post_subject:  

Steps that I almost always use to make a drive ready for Puppy:

- Delete any existing partitions
- Select most of the drive (most = minus whatever I want for swap) as ext3
- Select a small part (256-1024mb) as linux-swap
- Click the RUN icon and let gparted do its thing

So for this, I had 3820mb to play with. Delete current partition(s), set a 3436mb ext3 partition, and a 384mb linux-swap partition. Then I click RUN.

It removes the old partition(s) just fine, and sticks in the new ext3 partition quite easily, but when it comes time to make the linux-swap partition, it errors out -- IIRC I looked at the log once and Puppy was trying to mount the swap as it was being made -- I'll have to check that again and make certain what it says. All I know for sure right now is that the last step in the process, where it actually makes the partition there and useful, that's where it mucked up.

I'll also note that it can't seem to make the swap turn off. Yeah, there's swapoff -- in and out of gparted -- but it doesn't work at all. IIRC I got it to work by opening a terminal and typing swapoff /dev/sda2 but I could be wrong about that.

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ggg

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 14:53    Post_subject:  

Quote:
..only one [two] had to do with swap -- and that [/those..?] question has long been answered.

So what are you still muttering on about - that's a rhetorical question.

Quote:
..opening a terminal and typing swapoff /dev/sda2 but I could be wrong about that.

So what is "that", as it worked - that's another rhetorical question.

Google puppy linux swapoff command and read the first result to confirm what you know works.

However, with a mere 128MB RAM do explain why you need help and swapoff /dev/sda2? That's my question.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Google google effectively then read, digest and give us a break for a few days.
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bigpup


Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 5253
Location: Charleston S.C. USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 15:39    Post_subject:  

Just something to try to see if it has an affect.
When using Gparted perform each procedure as a separate operation.
Do not do as a combo process.
At completion of each, look for desired result. I have seen Gparted mess up if you give it combination process. I know it is suppose to handle multiple processes, but a possible cause of problem to eliminate.

Have you tried with a newer version of Gparted than the one that comes with Puppy?

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 17:57    Post_subject:  

@ggg: if I turn the swap off, the swap partition becomes something that gparted can manipulate.

@bigpup: I've tried it as a single command as well -- just trying to add the swap partition to where it didn't work before. No change in behavior.

...where is there an upgrade to gparted that I can install into Puppy to see if that fixes things? A gparted livecd won't really help here...

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11128
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 22:38    Post_subject:  

Actually a Gparted live CD might just solve your problem. Puppy really requires more than 128 MB of RAM without swap. A Gparted live CD will run happily in much less RAM than that. It's a catch-22: how can Puppy use your swap partition while Gparted in Puppy is messing with the swap partition? Or would that be a chicken-egg problem? Confused
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 23:09    Post_subject: Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM  

Flash wrote:
Actually a Gparted live CD might just solve your problem. Puppy really requires more than 128 MB of RAM without swap. A Gparted live CD will run happily in much less RAM than that. It's a catch-22: how can Puppy use your swap partition while Gparted in Puppy is messing with the swap partition? Or would that be a chicken-egg problem? Confused


I just checked the "Gparted --About" page at SourceForge and found this:
Quote:
Requirements

GParted can be used on x86 and x86-64 based computers running Linux, Windows, or Mac OS X by booting from media containing GParted Live. A minimum of 128 MB of RAM is needed to use all of the features of the GParted application.


For the record, I have been using Gparted live version 0.72 for the past three years on a variety of computers and have not had any problems yet... In my opinion, it's the way to go...

Monsie

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012, 23:32    Post_subject:  

I do usually use a LiveCD when the internal Puppy version falls down on the job. Trouble is, mine is missing Sad I'll download a replacement later.

My concern was more "OK, what if there's an update to gparted that fixes this bug?", AND "what if it's not gparted that's causing the problem, but Puppy itself?"

I'm running basic troubleshooting here. Either gparted is falling down on the job, or Puppy is mucking it up, and I'm trying to figure out which is the issue. If a replacement (newer) gparted pet is installed and the problem goes away, that was the problem. If it doesn't... Puppy gotta problem in its history.

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 00:07    Post_subject:  

OK... in the name of science...

Puplite5 (Wary kernel version), gparted 0.4.5...

Swapoff errors out with:
Quote:

Could not deactivate swap
swapoff: invalid option -- v
BusyBox v1.8.2 (2007-11-30 09:20:42 GMT-Cool multi-call binary

Usage: swapoff [-a] [DEVICE]

Stop swapping virtual memory pages on DEVICE

Options:
-a Stop swapping on all swap devices


OK, open rxvt for the 'hard way'. Cmd swapoff -a does not error but pmconky shows no change -- so it didn't work but it didn't error.

Take II. Cmd swapoff /dev/sda2 *does* work. pmconky eventually shows change, as does refreshing the display in gparted.

Now to re-partition the swap partiton as... swap. Science!

Right-click on /dev/sda2 (linux-swap, 383.00mb), select format to->linux-swap. Then punch Apply, and click through the worthless "are you sure" dialog.

Errors out as expected. calibrate /dev/sda2 worked. set partition type on /dev/sda2 worked. create new linux-swap file system failed -- instantly. The command that apparently did not work is mkswap -L "" /dev/sda2. This time I'll save the log, and then open it to see what's going on. Of note, the filesystem on /dev/sda2 is now "unknown" and there is a yellow exclamation triangle next to it.

gparted saves its logs as *.htm files -- hmm, have to open with geany and wade through the tags. Unfortunately, there's nothing there except what it popped up on the screen -- and therefore we have a mystery still. Of note, it does mention that the libparted version is 1.8.8.

OK, let's have some fun.

Any command more specific than mkswap /dev/sda2 (i.e. specifying options) errors out. No error is given, but the usage info is displayed, indicating a problem occurred. That exact command does work.

Cmd swapon displays usage information. swapon -a does not error out but does not work, as indicated in both pmconky and gparted. swapon /dev/sda2 does work.

...so I would hazard that the issue is not gparted itself, but mkswap, which appears to be part of busybox. This tends to indicate that the version of busybox used with older-kernel (Wary 511 and earlier) Puppies is somewhat defective.

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2992
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 01:43    Post_subject:  

Just installed Puppy 432v3. Promising... if I can strip a bunch of stuff out of it, it'll be more promising. It's a little big compared to the others, but it is, as I say, promising...

...BTW it solves the audio issue that Akita does not.

This is also the first time EVER that I've gotten grub (not grub4dos) to actually function. I've literally always gotten an error 15 before.

First time for everything, I suppose!

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rjbrewer


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 4422
Location: merriam, kansas

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 02:20    Post_subject:  

starhawk wrote:
OK... in the name of science...

Puplite5 (Wary kernel version), gparted 0.4.5...


Invalid presumptions.
Never use a Puppy derivative as an example of a official
release.

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012, 11:40    Post_subject:  

Not what I meant Wink

Puplite5 had two versions, each with a different kernel. I don't remember the numbers, but I remember that the one I have has the same kernel as Wary 5.*.* (because it says so in the ISO filename).

EDIT: looked up Puplite5's thread. It's actually a Puppy 420 derivative.

puplite-5.0-k2.6.25.16.iso <- original puppy 420 kernel
puplite-5.0-k2.6.32.28.iso <- wary 511 kernel

As previously stated, the 2nd one (wary 511 kernel) is the one I have and use.

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Sky Aisling


Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Port Townsend, WA. USA

PostPosted: Fri 21 Sep 2012, 23:52    Post_subject: Trying to install Puppy with 128 MB of RAM  

Starhawk...please don't pop my head off for asking this question...
Why are you bothering with (as you write) a *craptop!* machine?
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Sep 2012, 00:00    Post_subject:  

Because it's fun Wink

My goal is to make this relic practical if it is at all possible, or determining by exhaustive experimentation that such is NOT possible.

"Practical" is defined as "light web, word processing, and email" i.e. 90%+ of what the average PC user with a MUCH better machine generally does. I doubt I'll be able to run YouTube videos at even base (240p) quality, but it should handle nearly everything else.

BTW, I'm something of a... well, the term is "retrocomputing enthusiast". I spent most of my last semester in college (3yrs ago) programming a Commodore64 in assembly code (basically binary electrical impulses represented as hexadecimal digits on the screen) -- I thought that was fun, too.

Cute *.gif, BTW.

Er... weren't you going to send me a PM at some point? Wink

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