Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 23 Jul 2014, 08:01
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Volume consistancy
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 1 of 1 [14 Posts]  
Author Message
8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3355
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed 26 Sep 2012, 18:41    Post subject:  Volume consistancy
Subject description: Windows and Puppy volume
 

When I started using Puppy, I tweaked the volume as it was really low.
I did so first back when I was using a version of Puppy with Gxine.
It had an amplification slider in the audio controls.
Later, I used PCM in the volume mixer.
When I would on occasion fire up Windows, the volume would boom out at me being very high.
And in Puppy, it would be about middle volume.
But if I turned the volume down in Windows, the lower setting seemed to carry over to a reboot to Puppy and the volume in Puppy would be again very low.
So if when I left Puppy I had the volume cranked up around 75 to 100 percent and then in Windows turned the volume down, Puppy would see the lower volume setting as being the max and not allow getting higher volume.
So now, when I run Windows, I have to make sure the volume is cranked up before returning/ rebooting to Puppy so that the higher volume level is passed on to Puppy.

So does anyone have any ideas as to why the volume varies greatly when switching from one OS to the other?

My PC is a Compaq Presario with a built in Realtek sound card by the way.
And I have it connected to an amplified Altec sound system.


Also, for those that still have very low volume in Puppy and have Windows also, try cranking up the volume in Windows and then rebooting to Puppy.
I am curious as to if the volume will increase for you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Les Kerf

Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 194

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 16:51    Post subject:  

I was hoping someone with more experience would chime in here.

I too have noticed lower volume in Puppy, but I have never made any connection in my mind that it could be somehow related to the volume setting in Windows. Reckon I will have to boot up Windows 7 and see what happens.
Les
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
npierce

Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 858

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 10:29    Post subject:  

8-bit wrote:
Puppy would see the lower volume setting as being the max and not allow getting higher volume.

If I understand you correctly, not only is the volume lower when you reboot into Puppy, but you haven't been able to raise it to where you want it without going back into Windows. Did I understand correctly?

If so, it is possible that Windows is adjusting a control that you normally don't adjust in Puppy.

I think Puppy usually sets some default values when it boots (Master to 0dB, PCM to -12dB, etc.), but maybe the control Windows adjusts is one that Puppy doesn't initialize.

It might be useful to try this:

1. Set the levels as you like them in Puppy and save the output of
Code:
amixer

2. Reboot into Puppy again, and see what controls got changed on the reboot (without involving Windows yet), by running amixer again and examining the output. Save that output as well.

3. Boot Windows, adjust the levels as you like them there, reboot into Puppy and run amixer again before changing the levels. Did some other control change?

Feel free to post the output of the three runs of amixer, if you'd like another set of eyes to look at them.


Of course, something entirely different could be going on, but at least trying this would eliminate one possibility.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5463
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 10:38    Post subject:  

/etc/rc.d/init.d/10alsa is the file which adjusts the different parameters for volume. Inspect it and you can change the parameters in it....of course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3355
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 15:13    Post subject:  

In most versions of Puppy, the alsa mixer is generic and made to work with many sound cards. So it is possible that some controls for amplification could be missing.
It would seem that the volume at the same percentage level would be the same volume in both windows and Puppy.
But Puppy seems to be consistently lower in volume than windows.
I set the volume controls to a comfortable level in Puppy, reboot to windows, and the volume is consistently higher.
If I have the volume in windows turned down to a lower value, then in Puppy, the volume, even maxed out is lower.
What I am really getting at here is to if others that have both windows and Puppy on their PCs have noticed this.

Also, in Saluki Puppy, the controls seem to show for my specific sound card. I have not tested it to see if a boot to windows from it maintains the same volume.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5463
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 15:40    Post subject:  

This post gives some insight about increasing the gain.

http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/adding-an-alsa-software-pre-amp-to-fix-low-sound-levels/

Last edited by pemasu on Mon 01 Oct 2012, 10:08; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3355
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 17:15    Post subject:  

Just some quick questions.

Are Amplification and PCM the same thing?

Is PCM in Puppy set to SW (software) or HD (hardware)?
I have problems finding which configuration file to edit for experimenting.
But it would be nice to get a solution to all of the posts from users about low volume in Puppy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
pemasu


Joined: 08 Jul 2009
Posts: 5463
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 18:04    Post subject:  

I think that PCM and Pre-Amp are different things. I got the Pre-Amp using the later config description from the later posts. It created the Pre-Amp new slider for me.

I first used Multiple Sound Card wizard to create /etc/alsa.conf for me which I then edited.

Nice testing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3355
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sun 30 Sep 2012, 21:55    Post subject:  

I know I am the one that brought this issue up.
But I am still having problems getting an amplification slider to show up in alsamixer.
And for getting a solution that works, would it be possible to make a PET of the changes required to get the addition of an amplification slider to appear in alsamixer?
Trying to find what file to change or add for this is daunting for me and would be for a new user with no sound/low volume issues.
I do not know if the solution is generic enough for one PET to be used with all versions of Puppy either.
I am bouncing between Puppy Lucid 520 and Puppy Slacko 5.3.3.

I did stumble through and try it with Slacko with the result being that I had no amplification slider appear and also no sound at all.
I reverted to my old settings to recover.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
`f00


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 809
Location: the Western Reserve

PostPosted: Sun 30 Sep 2012, 23:42    Post subject:
Subject description: win vs lin
 

Hi 8-bit

Onboard sound is one of those things that seems historically slanted to windows (aftermarket cards not so much). Drivers were optimized for the oem as purchased and alsa plays catchup with some onboard audio left behind more-or-less. Daunting for anyone newly into linux and non-desktops in particular.

PCM is pulse code modulation (not that that means a heckuva lot to most folk) - I think of it as the gain on a power amp usually set to full. Some other gains can be up/downed a bit - usually I go thru about a couple dozen sliders on my alsamixer, each to just under red and a few like mic/boost off/muted - later I pick up or drop gain to match the source (CD, midi and so on). Some apps use PCM as the main volume control rather than the 1st 'master'. Add to that specialized plugins that are available in xmms, audacious and others and it can be a bit more.

Matching windows volume to linux volume is just one of those things that (as you've already found) can be inconsistent with various hardware setups, despite lots of fiddling. Good luck.

As far as a generic dotpet goes, it might well be more of a breaker than a fixer since hwr (and pups!) are so various. Laughing look at the fun we have with getting the display correct (or even useable) with the more recent xorg in some dogs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6424
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 01 Oct 2012, 00:28    Post subject:  

Quote:
In most versions of Puppy, the alsa mixer is generic and made to work with many sound cards.

So is it normal for it not to work with some sound cards? Do you happen to know where there's some documentation for this adding of pre-amp controls and stuff?

_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6424
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 01 Oct 2012, 00:32    Post subject:  

Oh, I followed the Alien link and I see - you are talking about a software preamp. But surely Windows doesn't use a software preamp for those cards...?
_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3355
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon 01 Oct 2012, 03:20    Post subject:  

I have windows Vista on one PC and windows 7 64 bit on another and nowhere in the control panel settings for the sound cards can I find any amplification settings!
As a matter of fact, the PC that has Vista on it says in its manual that one has to use amplified speakers with that sound card.
But in Puppy, I was able to use software amplification and the settings from it seemed to carry over to a reboot to windows increasing the volume.
So either the manual for the windows Vista PC is wrong, or hidden features of the sound card are not being used by Vista.

And by the way, after making a /etc/alsa.conf file with the code from the link, I did get an amplification slider in alsamixer. I should mention though that the PCM slider had disappeared.
But that could have been due to me not understanding just how to set things up in my initial changes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
disciple

Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 6424
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 01 Oct 2012, 18:47    Post subject:  

If any sort of setting can carry over between two different operating systems it must be some sort of hardware setting, not a software setting. Out of interest, does it carry over after you power off instead of doing a soft reboot?

> As a matter of fact, the PC that has Vista on it says in its manual that one has to use amplified speakers with that sound card.

FWIW, as far as I can tell, that is standard for modern sound cards (or at least on board sound cards).

_________________
DEATH TO SPREADSHEETS
- - -
Classic Puppy quotes
- - -
Beware the demented serfers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 1 of 1 [14 Posts]  
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.0813s ][ Queries: 12 (0.0037s) ][ GZIP on ]