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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Getting Puppy onto an OLD Dell laptop.
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rokytnji


Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1319
Location: Pecos/ Texas

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 02:03    Post subject:  

Quote:
The IBM format floppies


I have a case of those. They are Junk. They are not 1.4MB floppy disks. 512K sounds about right. I use Cool Disk Floppy Disks. I don't know if they are available in NZ though.

http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Memorex-Cool-Disks-Floppy-Disk-1.44-MB/2641833/product.html

Good thing about the IBM floppy disks I got. I got them for free from the sales lady because she like my free nascar baseball cap so we traded. Smile
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 2377
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 02:18    Post subject:  

Hi, BJF,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have working CD-Rom and Win98 installed already. One option is to make frugal install by booting Win98 and copying the Puppy SFS, vmlinuz and initrd files in a folder on your hard drive. Then you can use some boot loader like grub4dos to make dual boot. At least you will have a chance to see how different puppy versions will work on your hardware. I would create also swap file from puppy.

When you test which puppy will be best choice for your hardware you can start thinking how to make full install or just to keep your dual boot as frugal.

Cheers

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 04:52    Post subject:  

If you have 98 installed booting in safe mode to a dos prompt IS DOS.
There are only two standard sizes for 3.5 inch floppies 720K and 1.44 Mb . The 1.44 has two holes in it the 720k only one.
You cannot use a partition tool with a floppy.
Dos Format with or without parameters is the way to go.
Scandisk on a diskette from DOS will do a surface check.

Floppy drives often fail to work because the heads get mis-alligned

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BJF

Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 27 Sep 2012, 06:43    Post subject:  

Formatting via DOS finds an error on track 0 and aborts, grumbling about the disk not being suitable and offering to try again. Endlessly. Big bottoms! (Sorry, shouldn't say things like that on a Forum). Shocked
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2845
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 11:45    Post subject:  

If you're trying to format a 1.44mb floppy as 720k it will do that, but you shouldn't be.

Typing "sys a:\" (no quotes!) at the DOS prompt should make a DOS boot disk if you're using "real DOS" -- which may or may not be the case. I don't remember how much they stripped out of that for Win98.

The other possibility is that you're suddenly in the market for a new set of disks.

...er, it's a pity that laptops rarely came with two floppy drives after the 80s ended -- otherwise I could give you instructions on making Plop Boot Manager disks from a DOS floppy. The problem is that DOS doesn't copy itself into RAM at boot like Puppy does, so at some point you either need to overwrite your OS (which will not produce a working disk of any kind) or you simply are out of luck without a second drive. Note that USB support in DOS is rare and buggy at best -- and that's working from Command Prompt in XP, not any "real" DOS! You would need an (antique) parallel port external floppy drive! (Good luck finding that.)

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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 12:12    Post subject:  

...actually, I think I had a small brain fart in that last post.

Here's what you do (this assumes that Win98 works and so does the floppy drive, AND you go get a working disk -- you only need one)...

Get RawWrite for Windows (rename file to rawwrite.zip) and unzip it* --> http://www.chrysocome.net/rawwrite
Get Plop Boot Manager (rename file to plopboot.zip) and unzip it* --> http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html

Stuff a (working) floppy in the drive and run RawWrite. You want to find the plpbtin.img file within the unzipped Plop Boot Manager download -- should be in a folder labeled Install. That is the floppy boot image. Let RawWrite do its thing and at the other end you should have a working boot floppy.

*if you need an unzip program, I recommend pkunzip. Go here and click on the word "here" in "If you don't have...". Download it to the root of the C:\ drive. To use it, first run the EXE (a self-extractor) from within a DOS window. To unzip a file type pkunzip filename.zip (so for RawWrite, if you followed my instructions and renamed the file, you would type pkunzip rawwrite.zip).

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Burn_IT


Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Tamworth UK

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 12:29    Post subject:  

That will only produce a working diskette if the diskette itself or the drive is OK.
He needs to get a working diskette in that machine.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 9066
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 12:38    Post subject:  

This is getting confusing. Originally, BJF was making a boot diskette on a Linux machine with a USB floppy drive and the dd command.

Then he switched to formatting a diskette through DOS on the target machine.

If these diskettes are any good, then Puppy should have detected the USB floppy drive and made a desktop icon. Then the dd command should have worked.

I suspect that the floppy drive on the target machine is bad. That's not unusual.

You can format the diskettes through the USB drive in Puppy with:
Code:
ufiformat /dev/sdb
mkdosfs -I /dev/sdb    #use an upper-case 'eye'
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3365
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri 28 Sep 2012, 14:57    Post subject:  

In all of this and formatting of a floppy disk, one could also use the GUI I made for formatting floppy disks be they internal or USB external ones.
It has the option to format a 1.44meg disk as a 720K disk also.
But...
If one wants to make a specific floppy from an image, the dd command is good.
But again, one wants to be sure that they know how to use the dd command since with the wrong parameters, one could end up formatting their hard drive as a floppy and in effect, overwrite anything and everything on it.
My formatter can be found at http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?mode=attach&id=23982
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2845
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Sat 29 Sep 2012, 17:38    Post subject:  

If you ever get this working, take a look here... I didn't know about this Embarassed it takes a lot of work away.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=78941

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mini-jaguar

Joined: 13 Nov 2008
Posts: 462

PostPosted: Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:19    Post subject:  

Once you get the floppy drive straightened out, you might want to try MenuetOS or KolibriOS, runs off of one diskette: http://kolibrios.org/en/
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BJF

Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2012, 05:16    Post subject:  

Sorry. Been away.
PupnGo looks like the most likely contender. I have burnt the .iso to CD and run it on a Compaq NX9005 with 256Mb as a LiveCD, and it's FAST! And pretty. Seems to have all the fruit too.
BUT: Can't get any sense out of the A:\ drive. Not with these floppies anyway. I've tried formatting them in Puppeee, but the Dell won't recognise them as formatted and says there's something wrong with the bit where system files ought to go if I ask for a system disk.
So if I'm prepared to toss Win 98, does anyone have a plan to get PupnGo to install itself from either a non-booting CD by somehow getting a sympathetic bootloader aboard to get the CD drive recognised, or by copying PupnGo system files into a partition and formatting and installing out onto the rest of the HDD from there? I have totally no idea how to make Grub4DOS do anything meaningful now that I have it unpacked onto a CD, and also in a folder on C:\ drive.

Thanks.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2845
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2012, 12:46    Post subject:  

Pull the hard drive and install it in another system. You will need an IDE adapter that converts the 44pin (2mm spacing) connector on the laptop's drive to a 40pin (2.54mm/0.1" spacing) connector for a desktop. You will also likely need a spare berg connector (floppy power connector) off your power supply. Make sure that the power connection is not at all loose. (Especially if it is a regular Molex --optical drive-- style, the pins can be loose and that WILL kill the drive fairly quickly. I've done it!)

Boot pUPnGO. Install to the drive.

Then put the drive back in the laptop.

If your Compaq NX9005 has a USB port or two, you can skip the above converter (cheap on eBay BTW) and get a different one -- a USB to IDE/SATA drive adapter (type in "usb ide sata" on eBay and they'll pop right up). A word about eBay: don't buy stuff from Hong Kong, it'll take a literal month to show up AND you might have to pay customs fees! Get it from the sellers who say "shipped from USA" because they've already gone through that mess so that you don't have to Wink

The USB IDE/SATA adapter will probably come with a driver CD (or a link to a download) that you do not need at all. I've NEVER needed that driver!

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BJF

Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 04 Oct 2012, 15:40    Post subject:  

This might be a quiet whoo-hoo moment!
The NX has usb ports. There's a Dell and a Compaq desktop in the study/server room with ports and they all run various flavours of PCLinuxOS, and there's the Eeep with Jemimah's Puppeee aboard that talks to a usb CD drive happily and has ports all over the place. It's sounding like the way to go. Of course the Dell Laptop drive matches nothing I have on hand at all. Time to go shopping.....
Thanks Starhawk.
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BJF

Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 180
Location: Lower Hutt, New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 05 Oct 2012, 00:25    Post subject:  

One deep and meaningful thought: the HDD is an 1997 item it says, and has a connector that takes the form of pins on about 1mm spacing arranged top and bottom inside a hollow socket 25mm x 4mm (approximately). That is quite different to the IDE drive in the 2005 NX9005 Compaq. I don't like it when you say "EEK!" like that. It's disturbing. Does that description mean that finding an adapter is not going to be a simple matter? Rolling Eyes
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