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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Which puppy?
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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 06:31    Post subject:  Which puppy?
Subject description: Selecting a variant
 

I've been using lupu 5.2.8 full install for some time now, but I've been thinking if there is a more suitable variant for me.

One reason for the change is that many packages are install-ready as SFSes, but not PETs.

Also, the default processor for lupu is now newer than mine and many PETs don't work (the illegal instruction exception).
With machine this old, it would be sheer suffering to try to compile, say, iron, let alone Firefox.

The processor is athlon XP (only SSE1 instructions).
The board is 745 Ultra with 512 MB RAM.
Not too new!

I wonder if Wary would be better for me?
Also, would frugal install make the system faster?
(More memory oriented?)
Is it easy to set up a frugal install to boot without any external
storage (USB-stick or CD)?
I'd like all the puppy-stuff to reside in its own partition.
(Dual boot with windows.)

[edit]

Looks like for some reason the message was doubled.
I can't find any way to remove the double-posting here.
Could someone tell me how...
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cjtron

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 07:37    Post subject: Re: Which puppy?
Subject description: Selecting a variant
 

turboscrew wrote:
I've been using lupu 5.2.8 full install for some time now, but I've been thinking if there is a more suitable variant for me.

One reason for the change is that many packages are install-ready as SFSes, but not PETs.

Also, the default processor for lupu is now newer than mine and many PETs don't work (the illegal instruction exception).
With machine this old, it would be sheer suffering to try to compile, say, iron, let alone Firefox.

The processor is athlon XP (only SSE1 instructions).
The board is 745 Ultra with 512 MB RAM.
Not too new!

I wonder if Wary would be better for me?
Also, would frugal install make the system faster?
(More memory oriented?)
Is it easy to set up a frugal install to boot without any external
storage (USB-stick or CD)?
I'd like all the puppy-stuff to reside in its own partition.
(Dual boot with windows.)

[edit]

Looks like for some reason the message was doubled.
I can't find any way to remove the double-posting here.
Could someone tell me how...


Stick a BBQ in a ....

oops ...
I thought this was about Bbq grilling!

In that case...

Joking,,,

Ok, I have windows and 4 other linuxes including this
LXDE Puppy --> http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=79810
all duel booting from a single hard drive using the grub4dos after installing lxde puppy full Hdd and directing grub4dos to put the boot grub onto my MBR for booting

It should fly on your machine! It flies on my pentium 2 at 400mghz with 512 mb ram and 20 gig drive

Also I have it installed as full to Hdd

and the lxde puppy is the latest puppy 5.3.3 with lxde as the DE and looks sweet yet it's as lightweight and quick and more then the original puppy , try it ?

P.S Download the Slacko version, the checkmate is still alpha and I assume buggy on few things from what I heard

Latest Slacko version : http://sourceforge.net/projects/checkmatelxde/files/slacko_lxpup-06.09.12.iso/download

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=79810

heres my lxde puppy screenie all modded using but 63 from 3565 Ram even thought I got 8 gig sticks on the main pc but i might later install a pae kernel on this :S to see all my 8 gig soon !


Well? What you think
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`f00


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 809
Location: the Western Reserve

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 11:35    Post subject:
Subject description: frugal etc
 

hi turboscrew

Some linkage..
Enrich 'Frugal' instead of doing full install and see also other topics at the bottom of shinobar's op - I really like to make a 'personal' custom sfs or so with all my extras if I do a frugal so the savefile(s) can be pretty small Smile

Wary is a bit different than the lupu you're used to (but good support for older hwr out-of-the-box), you might even try racy if your kit isn't that old (I've been using it on my 12 yr old desktop, but your mileage may vary).

'faster' depends on many variables - let's just go with it's all fairly quick and let the fine points settle with what you're comfy with.

Package compatibility is another issue, some things are really version/family-specific in regard to dependencies.

hope that helps..
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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 13:51    Post subject:  

Well, my main points are:

1) I guess full install doesn't run mostly in memory (from RAMdisk?),
but frugal does? (The speed question in my earlier posting)
Is it so that: if it uses SFSs it runs mostly in memory?

2) Most SW is found as SFSs, but full install only uses PETs.
Frugal uses SFSs? (That's what has been a problem for me.)

3) My processor is not compatible with the default compilation settings for lupu. (Another problem for me.)
Athlon XP doesn't support SSE2 and the other newer multimedia instructions.
Does that make Wary a better alternative?
(I found a working Iron - Iron 8. The newer versions (like Iron 10) crash in illegal instruction exception due to an SSE2 instruction.)

4) Are there SW compatibility restrictions for ready-packaged SW if
I used LXDE? (cjtron, you got me curious.)

5) At the moment I have windows2000 / lupu 5.2.8 full install dualboot.
I want to use Windows boot loader as the primary bootloader due to the windows fixing tools. They typically expect to find windows bootloader in MBR and may replace Grub.
Is it easy to make the same boot arrangements with Wary/frugal or Lupu/frugal? Should I then format the partition reserved for puppy as NTFS or ext3?
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`f00


Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 809
Location: the Western Reserve

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 15:22    Post subject:
Subject description: re more-or-less
 

1) yep, RAM faster than hdd - as shinobar notes, if you need more you can use a swapfile/partition to augment your 512mb of RAM

2) dotpets are used in frugal as well, the rule of thumb is for large add-ons like Open Office, Wine and so on an sfs is more common since they don't get added to your savefile. You can make your own personal sfs, combine them and lots more - thing to remember is that it's read-only once you do it (but you can always re-do if needed) .. think of it as a big static package. Cool utilities like sfs-load on-the-fly exist for if you don't want to reboot to use additional sfs packages

3) dunno .. maybe someone with a similar setup could tell you more (or look around in the testing/Bugs section for particulars)

4) sometimes yes, often 'non-common' packages will have it noted about what family of pup they are for or if other dependencies are needed. In other words, if you try slacko-lxde it will point you to the slacko repositories for slacko-specific items if I recall that correctly

5) Personally I couldn't say for sure (only tried pup on hdd once a long time ago), but ext3 seems like a good choice for the format.
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
Location: near here

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 15:39    Post subject:  

Good day turboscrew

edit

2) Full install can use SFS, they need to be extracted, see How to Add SFS to Full Install

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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sat 13 Oct 2012, 17:44    Post subject:  

Frugal doesn't "eat" SFSs?
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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 01:28    Post subject:
Subject description: re more-or-less
 

`f00 wrote:

2) dotpets are used in frugal as well,


Ah, the SFSs are used a lot, but dotpets can be used as well?
http://puppylinux.com/hard-puppy.htm

I guess frugal is what I want?
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 07:03    Post subject:  

Frugal and Full can both use PET and SFS. Frugal is the most common way to install, and allows many different installations. Ultimately its personal choice, here is a comparison page-
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/FrugalOrFullInstallation

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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 07:56    Post subject:  

darkcity wrote:
Frugal and Full can both use PET and SFS. Frugal is the most common way to install, and allows many different installations. Ultimately its personal choice, here is a comparison page-
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/FrugalOrFullInstallation


VERY good page! Thanks!

About SFS installation, I recall something like the root directory of SFS installatiosn does not exist in full install, or something like that...
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
Location: near here

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 12:08    Post subject:  

here's how I think it works

in Linux the top directory is /

in it you might have the following directories one level deep-

archive
bin
config
dev
etc
initrd
lib
lost+found
mnt
opt
proc
root
sbin
sys
tmp
usr
var


using Go-OO-3.2.1-Lucid.sfs as a example, it has the following directories one level deep-

opt
usr


in a full install the files in Go-OO-3.2.1-Lucid.sfs are copied to the top level directories opt and usr - which exist fully expanded on the partition. The sfs then isn't needed anymore (unless to uninstall). The top level directory is actually as it appears in the file window.

in a frugal all those top level directories don't exist expanded on a the partition, but are derived from the files compressed in the basesfs and pupsave. This is call a layered filing system. So in frugal the files are used in compressed form, the Go-OO-3.2.1-Lucid.sfs is added as another layer. In frugal only files under /mnt are as they appear in the file window. For more info see http://puppylinux.com/development/howpuppyworks.html

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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 13:44    Post subject:  

Was it so that with frugal the stuff goes to /mnt/home?

Anyway, I haven't managed to install SFSs, except the devx.
I recall you can't uninstall the stuff installed from SFSs in full install.

My reasons of considering replacing a lupu full install with another puppy install are ramdisk and easier installation of SW (SFSs).

I have had some hard time getting sambaTNG to work and at least one of
Chrome/chromium/Iron to install/work properly.
Now that I found Iron8 pet, it finally installed right (and is darn fast).

There were - iI think - something like 5 or 6 different SFSs of chrome none of which installed in the thread

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2481
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PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:06    Post subject:  

turboscrew wrote:
Was it so that with frugal the stuff goes to /mnt/home?. . .


I mentioned /mnt/home as a side note - that takes you to the top level of all normally mounted devices or filesystem-in-a-files.

For example, on my frugal install

/mnt/home = C:\
/mnt/sda2 = D:\

----

on full install - the contents sfs is copied to the primary linux partition /

on frugal - the sfs stays compressed in /mnt/home - but is treated as though it were uncompressed to /

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turboscrew

Joined: 29 Nov 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Tue 16 Oct 2012, 08:44    Post subject:  

It looks like the onlylater versions of Chrome/Chromium/Iron are using SSE2 instructions, and nor that Iron 8 works fine, I guess I'm going to keep my Lupu 5.2.8, but re-install it making it frugal instead of full install.
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