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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Utilities
SFS-Exec
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1031
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 08:18    Post subject:  

Hi Pelo et al,

Pelo wrote:
Install the pet when needed, remove it when finished, Why to keep it in the distro ?
I need Gimp, ok i have it stored somewhere. Work finished, i remove it.
Bad way of doing ?

RSH replied
Installing a .pet can overwrite existing libs ---> .sfs don't
UnInstalling a .pet can remove needed libs ---> .sfs don't

Programs in .sfs sometimes will not run if incompatible libs are already in the running system. My Opinion: sfs is always the better way, though.

Jasper adds
If, in a rare case, I am unable to convert a pet to a working sfs then I do as Pelo suggests, but his suggestion is never my first choice.
--------------------------------
Seaside has given us three innovative and brilliant sfs modules. As well as the SFS-Exec pet available here his other pets can be found at:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=69227
and
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=74471

All three modules can be used in the same Puppy and any sfs loader that was pre-installed with the Puppy will also continue to work - so it seems to me there is nothing to lose, but huge prospective gains (all 3 work with my Slacko 5.3.1) in convenience and superfast loading and unloading of sfs files.
--------------------------------
However interesting, sunburnt's work is experimental, but seaside's apps work with their intended efficiency (at least for me).
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10506
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 09:32    Post subject:  

"However interesting, sunburnt's work is experimental, but seaside's apps work with their intended efficiency (at least for me)."

Yes I use Seaside's approach when I load and unload the Opera Browser
and it is instant and works very well. I love that Seaside gave it to us.

But would be cool of what Sunburnt sugges can be as easily implemented too.
So good that he started a new thread about it.

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1031
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:47    Post subject:  

Hi nooby et al,

I use seaside's SFStray (see screenshot) to load Opera and/or, one-at-a-time, the other 15 or so apps shown.

I use SFS-Exec to load some 30 other sfs apps (totalling a few hundred MB) by right clicking the sfs and then right clicking SFS-Exec in the drop-down list.

My sfs files are stored in many locations which I did not need to specify.

Any apps loaded using SFStray automatically unload when I close them, else I can use seaside's SFSunloader (part of SFS-Exec) to close apps loaded by any of seaside's three sfs programs.

Those who want to see if they can load say, 10 or 20 sfs files at once - try seaside's SFSdirload to load all sfs files in any chosen directory at once with (from memory) a single click.

My regards

PS Opera takes about 3 seconds to load using my SFStray, but any loaded sfs which is minimised to my main tray will reload instantly.

Google-chrome's sfs will not (for some reason unknown to me) load using any of seaside's star apps - so I use Slacko's built-in sfs_load - which I think was kindly provided by shinobar.

Addendum, commenting on the three posts immediately below:

(1st) RSH gave a superfluous second link to sunburnt’s thread on an experimental alternative system and whilst the link’s lettering had to be in lower case is was unnecessarily large and strikes me as “shouting” and extremely rude. Further, I believe RSH is entitled to exaggerate his own importance in his own threads, but I regard it as in bad taste to do so in his signature.

(2nd) nooby asked if seaside has now fixed a savefile corruption problem, that he surely does not have, because he favours frugal installations and he uses SFS-Exec yet he reports no problem(s) with any of his savefiles corrupting.
seaside gave nooby (and myself) huge help and made some modifying amendments to accommodate our needs so I regard nooby’s lazy unresearched comment as, at best ,sad.
Also, in this thread, nooby made three references to sunburnt’s thread in a single day.

(3rd) sunburnt wrote “Puppy’s Save file can corrupt at any time...” Presumably he means when using SFS-Exec - else this is a ridiculous place to make such a scaremongering comment.

I cannot say that SFS-Exec has never caused anyone a problem, nor that it will never cause one; but I can say I have used SFS-Exec for more than 500 days without a problem and despite many power cuts during that time only on one of those occasions, and not otherwise, did my savefile corrupt.

As for the rest of sunburnt’s comment, surely the generally accepted advice is make regular backups (with or without gzipping).

I wish sunburnt well with his innovative experimental alternative system, but seaside has, at least for me, already achieved near perfection with his three complementary SFS systems.
.
SFStray.jpg
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SFStray.jpg


Last edited by Jasper on Sat 27 Oct 2012, 09:20; edited 1 time in total
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2035
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 13:09    Post subject:  

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=659186#659186
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10506
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 16:22    Post subject:  

Thanks Jasper much appreciated.

I have not tested Stray yet I am too lazy Smile
Good that you share your experiences.

Hope others give it a try.

I remember that Seaside id warn us that
if one have a save file then that one can get
corrupted so Jasper if you are good at such
is that something you could look into?

Has his latest version found a way around
that corruption now? I have no link ATM though.

Seaside can explain when he jump in here.

RSH thanks for the link.

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4978
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 25 Oct 2012, 14:10    Post subject:  

Puppy`s Save file can corrupt at any time, I just deleted mine and booted fresh, the task bar disappeared.!

The best solution is to make a gzipped copy of it once you have your system setup how you like.

I`m surprised that the Puppy menu doesn`t have an item to do exactly this, it seems like a natural.
It`s possible that some of them do, but it needs to be part of the base distro. BootManager.
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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 878

PostPosted: Sun 28 Oct 2012, 18:22    Post subject:  

With a look at the complexities of unioning, it's a wonder that it works as well as it does. Just imagine this structure -

Top Level - pup_save-file
Second Level - main_pup-sfs-file
All others ......
10th sfs
9th sfs
..
first sfs

The top two layers have a defined priority - if two (or more) files with the same dir/filename exist anywhere between the Top Level and All Others then the highest level dir/filename is used. That's fairly clear between the Top-Level ( pup_save-file) and Second-Level (main_pup-sfs-file) For example if the pup_save-file has /usr/lib/mylib.so and the main_pup-sfs-file has the same file /usr/lib/mylib.so (same name but not necessarily the same content) , then the pup_save-file's /usr/lib/mylib.so is used.

Now when it comes to the All Others category (all those 10 or so extra sfs files), they are loaded must likely first in first out - the first mounted sfs on the bottom followed by the next sfs. Any of these added sfs files could have identically named /usr/lib/mylib.so files which would always be superseded by any sfs that had a higher level .

The more sfs files loaded, the more opportunity for file duplication collisions.

Another complication was distortion of already started applications being affected by a recently unioned sfs file. With firefox running, whenever I loaded certain other sfs files, many functions in Firefox stopped working.

So, eventually, some adaptations are necessary to make everything work together.

Some sfs files are linked, some are unioned and the best is not to use very many at a time.

The convenient aspect of unioning is that (unlike linking) you don't have to clean up afterwards (I always liked that part) . However, if any files are generated by the application, they go straight into the pup_save-file.

As far as whether unioning additional sfs files corrupts pup_save-file's more, I can't really say, but I've done-in mine enough times (and not necessarily from unioning sfs files) that I now run with a "locked-down" save file that never gives me any problems.

Cheers,
s
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 4978
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct 2012, 16:33    Post subject:  

Good assessment seaside; And there`s also the Union`s white-out files.
Interestingly, the cleanup files are the same for union and Non-union methods.
Union layers can be inserted I believe, so priority`s controlled. No help though.
I don`t think unions cause too many Save file corruptions. But you never know.

As said, unions are still a patch and probably never will be included in the kernel.
To many caveats and gotchas in it`s use. The over-shadowing is the biggest one.
Especially when you consider that it`s not needed. It`s a convenient hack is all.

But a distro. with a good tool chain so all apps. can use any lib. will mitigate woes.
An all Ubuntu or Slackware build should solve this problem. But only trying will tell.


Look at it this way. A union is a stack (exactly), and RoxStyle apps. are star tips.
The star`s apps. can`t over-shadow or interfere with each other. They`re nodes.

I`ve suggested a Junction Link (thanks Karl) that has a PATH in it to act like a union.
The current Linux link can hold a PATH, but it`s not recognized by the file systems.
The first path is a writable dir. or Save file, the rest read-only. No white-out files.
So the first path would be /mnt/sda1/(R-W) and other paths could be Squash files.


### By "locked-down", do you mean that the Save file is read-only mounted?
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seaside

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 878

PostPosted: Mon 29 Oct 2012, 20:20    Post subject:  

sunburnt wrote:

### By "locked-down", do you mean that the Save file is read-only mounted?

sunburnt,

Yes, this is in my /etc/rc.d/rc.local file-
"mount -o remount,ro /dev/loop1"

Regards,
s
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10506
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Fri 01 Mar 2013, 17:56    Post subject:  

Hope for your help again. I got it to work last time
but now when I try again using both slacko and lupu and snow puppy
then all of them fails making the zfile to have any content.
it loads but the content does not end up in the pupz directory
but when I mount the zs054233.sfs then it has directories in it.

So what do I have to get it work? Is it the naming of the zfile that fail?

I hate to fail for hours like this
So I go to sleep now. Hope somebody help me with this.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=511537#511537

But it does not keep my Swedish keyboard and time settings
I named it zs540233.sfs because it is a slacko 54 and the kernel is
3.2.33.4g

could that make it fail? does the name really matter?
AFAIK it has actually loaded it as can be seen in initrd/pup_z

but that one is empty while the zs540233.sfs itself has many directories.

So what could I have made wrong?

When I try to do without the /mnt/+mnt+sda1+slacko+slackosave.3fs
then it say there is no valid directory specified. I had that way back in thread too and added the /mnt/ part.

So should one maybe not boot in pfix=ram when one do the dir2sfs thing?


Late at night here so I read any answer tomorrow.

Now I will test with being booted into savefile and see if that helps.

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